Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Long Live the Legion! Lardy's Roundtable: How forgettable or unforgettable was SLSH/LSH between Earthwar and Levitz II/Giffen?

Note: This topic was originally entitled "How forgettable or unforgettable was SLSH/LSH between Earthwar and Levitz II/Giffen?" The discussion evolved WAY off-topic, but the energy here was so good, I didn't want to derail or dilute things, so welcome to "Lardy's Roundtable" where, hopefully, the discussions will continue to evolve and be reflected in a flexible thread title which will reflect the current direction. All posters are welcome to sit at the table and share your passion with your fellow fans!

The biggest hole for me as an LSH fan in my comics collection is the Superboy & the LSH era between where the Archives end up until Levitz returned with Giffen and began a fan-favorite run. Though I'm dying to read Earthwar and some of the things right before it and am committed to getting those someday, I've always been a little hesitant to fill in all the blanks between Earthwar and that beloved Levitz run because, well, most of what's in there looks pretty "meh", at best.

I mean, there were apparently some good Starlin issues along with more scattered Levitz material and there was the Dark Man story and Reflecto...but even those don't seem like really must-reads, from what I hear, y'know?

And of course there's at least one big red flag named Gerry Conway in there which doesn't exactly thrill.

So the question is: It's all or nothing---should I bother to fill that hole in my collection between Earthwar and Levitz/Giffen because it would be absolutely worth it...or should I fuhgedaboudit? (and of course, why or why not?)

(And by the way, I won't accept completism in my collection as a good enough reason to get them! )

That's the period when I first got into the Legion. The issue when Blok joined... the Reflecto stories... Maybe it wasn't all good, but there were highlights.

That's when I started reading LSH, so I have a soft spot for that era. I liked the Dark Man and Legion of Super-Assassins issues (they were somewhat related and introduced Blok to the team). I also enjoyed the first part of the Reflecto issues, with Grimbor's return, but the whole Suberboy/Ultra Boy/Time Trapper plot made my head spin.

There definitely were some dogs in that run. Lord Romdur's Castle was the absolute nadir, though I'm not sure it would be viewed so poorly if it had appeared during the past 5 years. Oh, who am I kidding, it would suck no matter when it was written.

Hmm... this is the biggest hole in my collection as well!

I'm waiting for the Archives the fill in the gap!

Two words: Dr. Mayavale.

One more word: Drek!


This was also my "prime time" for the Legion, as the Earthwar issues were my first exposure to the team, and I was in full "got to have every issue" mode! There were some stinkers for sure (Romdur and Mayavale stand out) but I enjoyed most all of it: the Psycho-Warrior, The Dark Man, even the Grimbor/Reflecto saga. I loved seeing the team go back to Smallville with Superboy to figure out what happened to him to become Reflecto, even though the payoff was "meh". Good times overall...good times!!!

Other "pluses": Jimmy Janes' artwork. Pat Broderick artwork. George Perez did some covers too!

"Minuses": Steve Ditko artwork. Bleah!! (not good for Legion, he drew both the Romdur and Mayavale issues, contributing to my contempt for both stories). Gerry Conway's scripts were weak.

Garth and Imra now back as stars in the LSH...Omega and the destruction of the HQ...Wildfire standing up to Omega...Marte Allon...Blok...The Legion of Super-Assassins...The Dark Man...Bouncing Boy standing among the dead Legionnaire statues...Wildfire explains his origin to Lamprey, Nightwind and Crystal Kid...Amazing George Perez covers...Superboy exits the Legion and the Legion takes center stage once and for all...pretty groovy Tyroc, Dawnstar, Shadow Lass, Wildfire, Lightning Lad, Saturn Girl issues right after...Karate Kid smashes a giant chain imprisoning the Earth...Timberwolf at his most isolated and lonely fighting himself to become a stronger member of the LSH...the New HQ...Saturn Girl and Phantom Girl share their only sweet, sisterly moment in LSH history and yes, it is a great one...

These issues space-rawk. They are by no means perfect, as many of given examples (and there are sure more to give). Conway's stories are not that great.

But at the end of the day, they rawk. There are some great moments in there that continue to bring the Legionnaires from their Cockrum/Grell days to where they are in the Levitz saga. And its the 70's costumes, when the Legion still had a majesty and vastness to it that still felt as if it had no limits whatsoever.

Buy them

Look at it this way, Lardy. This may be one of the weakest for the periods for the Legion, but the Legion at its worst is still a hell of a lot more fun than most comics. Blok and Dawnstar in the 20th century? Shrinking Violet going back in time and meeting baby Kal-El on Krypton? Chuck and Lu releasing a super spcace genie? Tyroc from the Brigadoon of space? Come on, now. You aren't going to get this stuff anyplace else.

I recently re-read all this stories and had a lot of fun doing it. I even enjoyed the Ditko issues. They weren't nearly as bad as I remembered.

At the same time, though, you can argue that absolutely nothing really significant happened during that run except for, perhaps, the intro of Blok! Am I right or wrong?

Superboy leaves the Legion!!!

Well, yeah...but he does return soon, albeit fairly rarely. What was the reason he left, anyway (other than to give the LSH the spotlight alone, obviously)?

Tharok's last appearance for over a decade is during this period!

Er... unless you count his appearance on the Spider-Man cartoon!

Hm...you can't really base an era on if anything signficant happens. One could say nothing really happens in Levitz's run from about Val's death to Superboy's death of great signficance, but I wouldn't agree with that. Its a matter of opinion. And if the stories are entertaining and good, that's what matters. I'd say about these, its 70% good, 30% 'okay'. None are really terrible.

I think its an interesting era as its the final culmination of the period of 'maturing of the Legion' that began with Cockrum. In a way, it serves as the last phase before the Levitz era begins, and thats what makes it cool.

Then again, there are very few periods of the Legion that I greatly dislike.

If memory serves that stretch reintroduced R.J. Brande into the series didn't it? Following the Omega story the Legion's HQ was damaged for an unusually long period as Brande's fortune had been siphoned off and the UP couldn't pay for it? Considering how important a role he played in the Levitz era that was pretty significant.

What? Wasn't RJ in the LSH origin story that appeared mid-to-late Adventure run?

I'd agree with that matlock, it really did bring R.J. back into the limelight.

And the Omega 2 parter by Starlin was awesome! Wildfire and Superboy standing in the rubble of their HQ was "the" definitive Legion moment, and said something about both these young men's characters. Thanks for the reminder Cobie!

If memory serves Lardy, R.J. was introduced during Adventure Comics run (around #350) as their rich benefactor, but their origin as a team (saving his life) was never told until the 1970s (I believe it was in DC Super-Stars #17).

Hmmmm.....maybe I need something to sway me one way or the other: exactly how many issues of the approximately 40 we're talking about did Conway write?

Most of them actually. Starlin did the Omega storyline. There were occasional fill ins, like Demattius on the Mayavale story. Roy Thomas comes in for Reflecto and is quickly replaced by Levitz. Pretty much everything else is Conway.

One word of warning in case you do decide to pick them up. Avoid the Space Circus storyline. Conway and the Legion at an all time low. League of Super Assasins is probably Conway and Staton's best effort. The Superboy solo in Smallville sections of the trip back to Krypton story play to Staton's strenghts. Things pick up quite a bit when Janes replaces Staton

The founders are shown saving Brande in Superboy #147 from 1968. The DC Super Stars story expands on that and tells how they got deputized by the Science Police and could function as law enforcement officials.

This was the period where I actually dropped the Legion from my reading list. The only time in my life that I refused to buy the Legion, btw. I've since filled in the gap with comics from overstock sales and the infamous "quarter box" but I almost never read them. (the completist thing)

There was hardly a book on the shelves worth reading at the time and I almost stopped buying comics altogether. Thank the Flying Spaghetti Monster that Frank Miller was hired to do Daredevil or my comics collection would have ended right there.

Thanks Jerry, I remember that issue Superboy issue now!

Ahem...

...still waiting for this answer, by the way! :rolleyes:

He left to give the LSH the spotlight, as you assumed.


It was S/LSH #258 and LSH #259, and the Legion fought the Psycho-Warrior. He could make you see your worst nightmare, and Superboy's was to discover how his loved ones died. He couldn't cope with the pain of knowing this information. Saturn Girl planted a post-hypnotic suggestion that he never return to the 30th century for his own good. Basically he remembers their adventures while he is in the 30th century but when he returns home to Smallville the details get fuzzy (to prevent his knowledge of the future from affecting his actions & behavior on present day activities). As long as he stayed in the 20th century, he wouldn't remember how they would die.