Legion World Forums LEGION COMPANION The Anywhere Machine So. Star Wars. (now with SPOILERS!)

You ever seen the Phantom Edit Bri? The recut version some fan did of Episode one, taking out the Jar Jar scenes? It helps. But that damn pod race and little punk are still in the movie.

I've actually reached the point of not minding if JarJar's in III, as long as he dies cruelly and painfully.

Sorta like ladybugs. I had an uncovered halogen torchiere and every Spring, the ladybugs would flock to the light, making a horrible stink as they died. I learned to enjoy it, in a twisted way... because every time I smelled that stench, I knew another of those little vermin was roasting away on the halogen bulb...

(I also laugh uncontrollably when I smell a skunk that's been hit on the roads... thinking about the poor sucker that actually HIT it...! )

So, if a kid can survive the violence in Attack of the Clones, can he watch Revenge of the Sith--or is it too disturbing?

Well, AOTC was PG, this is PG-13... and non-spoilerish first-hand accounts have said this movie gets evil about 10 minutes in and doesn't let up. Don't know if that helps any, but you might wanna see it yourself first and judge for yourself if your kiddies can handle it.

I'm about 26 hours from seeing it. One of the few things that I didn't know ahead of time (I'm a big spoilerized fool) was given away in a one line excerpt from a review that I read somewhere else. It was a pretty dumb twist I'd already considered though.

Our little girl asked if she could go. She really likes Yoda. Sorry, not this time matlock lass! Repeated exposure to "The Incredibles" has made her violent enough since playing "superheroes" at daycare seems to mean coming home with bruises from ankle to knee, and I do not need her going over to the Sith!

well i saw "REVENGE OF THE SITH" a few hours ago now !!!

it's hard for me to say where i would "place" this film in order of favourites !!??

at the time of the original films, i always rated "JEDI" as my favourite, probably because i was 11 when that one came out, and i fully understood everything that was going on !!

but as i got older, i liked "EMPIRE" for it's more complex element !!

and of course, i've just seen the original 3 over the years, growing up, the new ones would never be able to the place of those "classics" !!!

but saying that i STILL really enjoyed EPISODES I & II for what they were !!

EPISODE III is simply the best of the new ones, and was really cool to see everything come together at the end !!

i actually CRYED during some of the moving scenes, and i felt sad to see it finally come to an end, with this movie !!

i truly felt a loss on leaving the cinema, like a "old" friend had moved away, and i'd never see them again !!!

i'm sitting here now, watching all my STAR WARS dvds !!!

i hope everyone else enjoys it, and when more people have seen it, we can discuss, what we liked, and didn't like etc .....

or we should start up a seperate EPISODE III thread, just for people who have seen it !!!

finally, it left me wanting to see a STAR WARS: Episode III and a half !!!

Matthew.

It's a good movie.

Kind of.

It moves well, and for a movie that basically you know how everything is going to turn out, there are some nice surprises and chilling moments. It's definitely the best of the prequels.

Now, unfortunately...

It has within it some of the worst, most absymal dialogue ever seen in a movie. Which would not be a movie-wrecking thing, were it not for the way the show is structured, which is...

Action sequence! Action sequence! Talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk. Action sequence! Action sequence! Action sequence! Talk, talk, talk, talk.

Which is not to say all the dialogue is bad. The dialogue during the action scenes is light and breezy, it moves, and is often poignant and funny at times. I dunno, it was like I was watching two different movies at the same time, one being an action movie that was rocking along just fine, and the other being a psychological drama that looked like it belonged on Days of our Lives. And we're not talking good Days, we're talking Marlena-possessed-by-the-devil Days.

The final conversation between Anakin and Padme may be the single worst conversation between two characters in the entire 6 movies. The scene is truly that bad. Almost as bad is Vader's "Why God Why" moment. I was sitting there like "Don't make him do it!! Don't make him do it... aww, there he goes. Oh, he did it. Crap."

On the other hand, I love how this movie makes the story of Star Wars Anakin/ Vader's story more than Luke's story. It really makes the end of Jedi truly meaningful... I mean, Vader picking up the Emperor and tossing him down the shaft in Jedi was already good, but now... oh, that scene is more awesome than ever now. I loved the connections between Sith and Star Wars, Empire, and Jedi. There was some real beauty and poignancy in the performances this time around. The Emperor's big reveal was extremely satisfying.

One more note about dialogue. In almost every scene where the dialogue is bad, you do get a true sense of the emotion present in the scene. Lucas leads you to the places you need to go and it's like what they're saying on the screen isn't really what is being said, just a vague approximation of what was said. It's almost as if it is being told to you by your grandfather, and while he is getting the action perfectly right, it was so long ago that what everyone says is hazy and unfocused. You understand what they're feeling and doing, but the words you're hearing are only the hazy vagueness of what was actually said.

Except for, once again, that last Anakin-Padme conversation. What a stinker that was.

Anyway, the movie didn't disappoint, and even thrilled a bit. In the context of what is to come, it was truly a beautiful achievement. If the dialogue had been better, it could have ranked right up there with the rest of the story to come. I liked it.

It was a good movie... not great, but really really good. It was a great bridge from the earlier stories to the original trilogy though. Minor Spoilers ahead:

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I've read a lot of places where Natalie Portman can't act... or George Lucas can't write dialogue... or the droid humor doesn't work... or this movie isn't as good as episode IV, V, or VI... and so on. I'm not going to get caught up in that scene. I'm going to look at movie based on it's own merits.

The droid humor (what little there was) worked for me (and the crowd that I saw the movie with). My wife was even laughing and she doesn't like sci fi (although I think I'm slowly wearing her down). The awkwardness of Droids and Jar Jar from episodes one and two just wasn't in this movie. The droids were done very well and in character and in flow with this movie.

There was only one weak spot in the movie for me and that was the dialogue/scene that Kid Prime pointed out. Other than that... Natalie Portman does a good job of emoting/acting in this movie. Same for Hayden. I thought they were both, overall, very serviceable actors in this movie. And let's face it...there are no Deniros or Streeps in this flick. It's just that Hayden's and Natalie's last scene together is just so terrible that that is the impression you're left with of the job they did in the movie. I think they are taking a beating from their performances in previous episodes and this last scene, but for the rest of this flick they were better actors than what is being advertised. Same with Lucas' dialogue... one really bad exchange near the end is what is sticking out in alot of peoples' minds.

Visually and action wise... Episode III was great. I'm a little torn here because I read the book about three weeks ago. Needless to say... the book allows for more insight into what characters were thinking at certain points. There were also alot of nice little details left out that made the book that much more enjoyable than the movie. On the other hand... the movie added some visuals that enhanced the story from the book's perspective. Take the movie and the book together and you've got a great story. And that's kinda the problem... these writers should make their product good enough to stand on their own, without being forced to rely on other media to enhance the experience (ahhh... the modern marketing machine).

Now for the comparison with other Star Wars flicks; Overall... this movie wasn't as fun as the original trilogy, but that's not what this story is about. This story is flat out a tragedy and on that level it works. Its not supposed to be fun like the original trilogy. Saying this movie wasn't good because it wasn't as fun as the original trilogy is like saying a strip club wasn't fun because the drinks were too warm. Sure you didn't have a good time, but the main point was never an issue in the enjoyment of the event.

Bottom line... Episode III is a good addition to the rest of the Star Wars myth.

Which is not to say all the dialogue is bad. The dialogue during the action scenes is light and breezy, it moves, and is often poignant and funny at times. I dunno, it was like I was watching two different movies at the same time, one being an action movie that was rocking along just fine, and the other being a psychological drama that looked like it belonged on Days of our Lives. And we're not talking good Days, we're talking Marlena-possessed-by-the-devil Days.
Damn KP, your old enough to remember "that" bright spot on Days huh? god i don't feel so old after all!!!

It wasn't that long ago was it? Or is 10 years now considered an eternity? Didn't her possession take place late 1994/early 1995?

Heh... Ah, Days of Our Lives ... comic book
storytelling without super heroes ...

If she had just whipped out her Electra Woman
outfit and electra comp the devil never would
have had a chance!

Now this is strange. I've whaled on the dialogue between these two characters all through the saga, but I fail to see what was so terrible about that last scene. I assume we are talking about the scene just as

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YK XYK XYK YXK YK KYXYXK k xk yk xyk xy kxy kxy kxyk yxk y Obi-Wan shows up and yxk yxk yxy xky xk kyx kyxk xy Ani starts ranting yxk xyk yxk yx kyxk yxk yxk yxk yxk yxk yxk xyk ykx and nearly kills xylxyl yxl y ly yxl wifey xxlyyxl yxl xyl yx lyxl yxl yl xylxyxl lxy


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...right? I'd certainly like to tweak some of those lines ("a path that I cannot follow..." ugh) but it wasn't anywhere near the lameness of the fireplace scene from the previous film.

But freakin' loved the movie, so I might be a little biased. Preliminary final grades for the saga:

A New Hope: ****1/2
Empire Strikes Back: *****
Return of the Jedi: ***
Phantom Menace: **
Attack of the Clones: **1/2
Revenge of the Sith: ****1/2 (repeat viewings may cost that 1/2 star, or not)

I'm seeing this again later tonight, so I'll expand on that scene once it's fresh in my mind again.

I have to say again that I really did like the movie.

after seeing the film yesterday, i was able to read through a "STAR WARS" magazine, i bought last week, which pretty much gave you a breakdown of the whole story !!

so upon reading it today, i noticed some parts, that i don't think i saw in the actual movie ??

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do we see YODA talking "to" OUI-GON JINN !!?? and him explaining to YODA how to become one with the FORCE ??

and then YODA agreeing to become his apprentice ??

because it mentions it in this magazine, i know that when OBI WAN arrives YODA proceeds to tell him about OUI-GON, i just don't recall the first part .....

also do we see YODA arrive on DAGOBAH ??

i also didn't notice OBI WAN pickup ANAKIN's lightsaber, but it shows him doing it in the mag ??

Matthew.

more thoughts on the film and what i loved !!

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the lightsaber battles were amazing !!

the transformation of PALAPTINE was great, loved the show down with MACE !!

the turning off ANAKIN was great, and his taking down of the JEDI !!

the CLONE ARMY following the change of orders, and then turning on the JEDI !!

more of YODA fighting !!

the final battle between OBI WAN and ANAKIN, i'm glad that it was pretty graphic, it made it a very moving scene !!

the transformation into DARTH VADER was cool [ just wish we'd seen a little more of him !!

the birth of the twins was great, and i loved that PADME named them !! [ i had always thought that LEIA would have been born first !!?? ] this part made me cry !!

the scenes of the BLOCKADE RUNNER were great, it was just cool seeing the white corridors !!

and then finally the twins being delivered to their new homes, and then the setting twin suns of TATOOINE and 'that' haunting music !!

the scene on the STAR DESTROYER was cool, seeing the IMPERIAL look, and the building of the DEATH STAR !!

what i also loved was, it made you realise why YODA would disappear to DAGABOH as there no more JEDI left, apart from him and OBI WAN !!

i don't think we fully realised that in EMPIRE/JEDI at the time !!

okay .... now the parts i didn't like, not that many really !!

some parts did go on a bit too long !!

the dialog was a bit clunky in parts !!

i didn't like OBI WAN riding that creature, it looked stupid IMO !!

i wish we'd seen a little more of the JEDI being wiped out !!

i wish the scene between PADME and ANAKIN had last a lot longer, he snaped too quicky, considering he kept saying how he wanted to stop her from dying !!

and i wish we'd seen more of VADER on the STAR DESTROYER !!

in fact, i'd love it if we now got an "EPISODE III and a HALF" !!

Matthew.

KJS,

The line that kills the scene for me is...

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"You're breaking my heart". UGH!
"Path that I can't follow..." and the rest was pretty ugh too, but man, can you imagine how powerful that scene could have been if they didn't say much of anything and Padme just shed a single tear and walked away?

And Matt,

most of the stuff you talked about in your post happen in the book, but not in the movie. They don't go into the specifics of how to become one with the force, but Yoda does speak to Qui-Gon in the book. I remember Obi picking up Anakin's lightsaber in the movie. It's just so non-chalant that you could just as easy think that he was picking up his own lightsaber.

As for Degobah... I think they mention it in the book, but I don't remember anything about it in the movie... let alone seeing Yoda there.

thanks for the info !!

good to know that i didn't "miss" those scenes, as they actually weren't there, anyway !!

i'll be going to see it again, in a week or so, and i'll probably notice some more things along the way ....

Matthew.

You know, the scene actually didn't bug me so badly the second time around, though I was totally steeling myself for it, which may have been a factor. I agree, it's about the time Padme says "you're breaking my heart! You're a good person! Stop! Stop!" that you can start to smell the noxious odors emitting from the script. I was like, "yes, stop! Stop the train wreck this conversation is racing mercilessly towards!"

But honestly, I think the problems deal as much with the pacing as the script. It's only in the prequels that we have these 10-minute conversations that fall flat. Thing is, in eps 4-6, no one talks for more than 3 minutes without something happening actionwise. And most of the storytelling is in the action, not in the dialogue. Even the pivotal scenes between Luke and Obi-Wan, and Luke and Leia, in Jedi don't seem to... LAG like the talk, talk, talk scenes in the prequels do.

It wouldn't have worked. No one gives up on the love of their life without a fight. Certainly not a diplomat who's used to arguing with people. And certainly not a woman who's both in denial and yet unable to deny the truth before her.

Hmmm. I'm seeing parallels with the pivotal revelation in TESB. There, Luke's silent rejection of Vader works because the two have no emotional relationship. Vader and Padmé, OTOH, have a completely different dynamic.

Truth be told, this is the most difficult-to-execute scene of the whole series, almost. How do you make it hurt, stay believeable and yet not go completely over the top (until, at least, the "other man" shows up -- then it's OK... )? I think Lucas did it surprisingly well. (Though I'd certainly change those two lines we brought up.)

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I remember Obi picking up Anakin's lightsaber in the movie. It's just so non-chalant that you could just as easy think that he was picking up his own lightsaber.

Yes, subtly and well done by Lucas. Nothing like the all-too-obvious "cameo" of the Death Star plans seen in AOTC. (We're not *completely* stupid, George.)

what i didnt like was VADER at the end when he is told he accidently killed his wis, it was like watching frankenstien trying to break his chains. And then he screams NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
ULTRA CHEESY, especially for a character like that.

I liked the pod race, although it went on for too long, I think. The kid was the biggest problem with Ep 1, IMHO, even more so than Jar-Jar. I've always wondered what Ep 1 might have been like if Lucas had cast the "I see dead people" kid instead.

Yeah, a lot of people had a problem with that, mainly because they aren't used to seeing any emotion from Vader besides cold rage. But you have to remember what has motivated Anakin's whole fall to the dark side -- trying to save Padmé. From death. From the war. His brief bout of total madness (the choking scene) aside, she's been worth him throwing away EVERYTHING else he ever cared about.

And now he finds out that not only has he failed to save her, he's the one responsible? Come on. I mean, how would folks EXPECT him to react? That's a "Nooooooooo!" moment for anyone, even the greatest villain ever. It's the final death-knell for Anakin Skywalker, and the true birth of Darth Vader.

Not only that... but Darth Vader is still essentially Anakin at this point. I mean he's been in the helmet all of what... two maybe three minutes? This is not the cold, emotionless villain that has had twenty years of stewing about the fact that he killed the pregnant love of his life. That he slaughtered all those younglings and Jedi. That he's lost all of his limbs, and needs mechanical help to breathe. That no matter how long he lives he's going to be the lap dog of Palpatine. This is still a young man that hasn't grown into that cold, emotionless villain that appears 20 years later in the Original Trilogy.

That is Anakin screaming "Noooooooooooooooooo!", not Vader.

it's great reading these posts !!

everyone has some interesting view points, and it's cool that many of them 'fit' into the histories of the films [ even if they hadn't originally been planed that way !! ]

i'm probably going to see the film again, this weekend ??

Matthew.

do it. I liked it even better on 2nd viewing.