Legion World Forums LEGION COMPANION The Anywhere Machine My Governor can kick your Governor's butt!

Well, it was one guy's idea, I don't know if I agree with it. Roosevelt was maybe an exception for exceptional times; America was a mess and even the rich had to make concessions to keep a lid on things. Kennedy faced off against the steel industry, wasn't it, which may have just been they were on the wrong political side - I don't know that history. Did he have other corporate fights?

I think today, given the influence of corporate money in politics, that no leader, regardless of background, is going to be able to back down rampaging tycoons. Schwarzenegger is in bed with the Enron and energy guys, according to Greg Palast - so rich class, poor class - you dance with who brung you.

One thing to keep in mind though is that the reason the tobacco lobby, the NRA or Detroit has such a sway on the politicos is that they're supported by our votes as well -- the ones we cast with our dollar. People are still buying SUV's and cigarettes and whatnot so we're backing those whom we claim to be corrupting the system at the same time that we're decrying their stranglehold on democracy.

If a capitalist society is going to work for ALL of the people, the government HAS to act as a controlling force on big business. This is not socialism or communism, this is democracy. The recent corporate scandals should prove to anyone who can read that big corporations exist to perpetuate themselves and generate profits--NOT to make the lives of anyone better, or to follow rules, or to protect consumers or workers. Government is the only force, through regulation, that is powerful enough to oppose big business. Unfortuately, and very few commentators seem to see this, government's decision over the last twenty years to DEregulate business is the direct antecedant of the recent corporate scandals. Businesses have to be regulated for a capitalist society to work for everyone. This is why recent efforts to reform political spending are so important, but disappointing. If government is controlled by business, WHO WATCHES THE WATCHMEN?

Who watches the Watchmen indeed! Especially when the fox is in the henhouse:

(Senate Majority Leader) "Frist's ownership of and entanglement with one of America's
biggest corporate criminals, hospital chain Columbia/HCA, shows
his loyalty and should have prevented him from leading the US
Senate. In total, the company, now called HCA, will pay more
than $1.7 billion in civil and criminal penalties -- the largest
amount ever in a health care fraud case."

Senator Sawbones

To say the least about VP Cheney and his ties with Halliburton

And where does the $87 billion dollars for rebuilding Iraq go? Why did we bomb Iraq flat, then grant multimillion dollar contracts to rebuild it? Do you realize how much the bombs we dropped on Iraq cost per boom? There is an unimaginable amount of money being funnelled into the military-industrial complex that Eisenhower (not exactly an enemy of the military OR big business) warned us against. 9/11 was the best thing to happen to arms manufacturers and their buddies in the Pentagon. Who is the biggest arms dealer in the world--mostly selling its products in developing countries with unstable governments? That would be US.

Money is the driving force behind everything in America--political campaigns, government deregulation, courtroom justice (there is a definite correlation between how much money you have and whether or not you go to jail in this country), fame, art, school quality, etc.--isn't that the defintion of capitalism run amok?

And then, after destroying countless lives, Washington sactimoniously invokes the name of God to justify it's land grab.

ANd yes! we can tie this thread back to Governor Arnold, bear with me:

Story about cash going to Iraq:
"The Pentagon is sending cash to
Iraq, literally.

Defense officials tell us that after an
urgent request from U.S.
administrators in Iraq, several
tractor-trailers were filled with
numerous pallets stacked high with
money. The military needed cash in
small denominations to pay
municipal workers in occupied
Baghdad. So the Pentagon ordered
up stacks of $5, $10, and $20 bills
and flew them off on C-17
transports.

The truck convoys were protected
by armed Army security guards.

One C-17 mission carried $20
million. So far at least $500 million
in cash was rushed to Iraq."

Comment on another board that, if it's that easy to rustle up money, surely they could send some Arnold's way:

"You know I believe that they just create money out of thin air and
don't tell the other G7 nations or whoever they are supposed to,just
how much they create.
They could just create a few billion for arnie out of thin air?
You tell me how we would ever know?"

Indeed!

I caught the piece of JFK in which the Mr. X character (Donald Sutherland) explains the how and whys of the assasination. It's really interesting to me that many, if not most, Americans believe that our government has done and is doing questionable things to further its own agenda (which changes from administration to administration? or does it?). From a history teacher's standpoint, you can date this basic belief to two events: Watergate and the Warren Commission report. Watergate for obvious reasons, but I think very few realize how the Warren Commission report on the assasination was viewed when it came out--as an obvious whitewash that left several very important things out.

We've all said some pretty scary things about our government--do we believe that all of this stuff is going on? I get the impression that most people here are well-educated (if not, then at least self-educated)--do most Americans who pay attention believe that the government is up to shady stuff, even now? If so (and I'm starting to think that it IS so), ten what does that mean for our future as a democracy?

Will we continue to expose and then (mostly) discredit government conspiracies? A list off the top of my head includes the CIA involvement in introducing crack to the streets of America (almost certainly true), the cloudy recount, depleted uranium armaments and their effect on our soldiers, the evacuation of Bin Laden family members (see the last Rolling Stone, which seems to be the only place crap like this gets airing any more, unless it involves Democrats, in which case it's printed everywhere), Bin Laden investments in Bush-related companies, etc.

It's enough to make me move to Canada, where at least I know I will be taken care of in my old age--and while I'm waiting in line, I smoke a doobie in relative peace.