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The problem with your arguement Quis is that you want to make it in a perfect world, because that is the only place it would work.
Again, there were already paranoid people over there that believed and still believe that anyone that isn't muslim, islamic, etc... is out to get them. We could sit there with our thumbs up our asses for years and they would still believe that. Nothing will change it. So we should let thousands upon thousands die to avoid that? Sorry, that is an inhumane statement.
As for the UN. Again I ask why we should believe that nations dealing illegally with Iraq, or other murderous regimes, would ever go "Oh, those poor people, well we cant let them suffer anymore." and yes there are other countries that could use us as well. So? We can only do so much at the time. You don't go to war on thirty fronts at once. You start with where the problem is and go from there. C'mon, Quis, i know you aren't stupid, that arguement fails logic and you are smarter than that.
Damn you, you kids! Get off my lawn or I'm callin' tha cops!
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strange but not a stranger
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strange but not a stranger
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Rickshaw,
When talking about the reasons for the war in Iraq, you can't use the reason that Saddam was murdering thousands of his own people because that reason was not used (and was known) when the war started. That is not to say that it would not have been a legitimate reason to go to war with Iraq.
The reasons given were that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction and that they were ready to use them at any time. And we didn't find any stockpile of weapons for immediate use. And we find out that the information that the president told Congress and us as being true, was actually not true and he (or the people that supplied it to him) should have known it was, at the very least, unsubstantiated and not fact. i.e. the bit about Iraq seeking nuclear material.
This is like saying "I think my crotchity neighbor has a gun (because Loose Lips Lou from down the block told me) and if he does, he could someday use it against me. He says he doesn't, and some people have looked in his house, but I know he has a gun. I'll break in and ransack his house to prove it." Then after I break in, I find bullets but no gun. So then I say "Oh by the way, he also kicks his dog and beats his kids."
Like I said earlier, the reasons why the US goes to war with another nation should be above question.
Big Dog! Big Dog! Bow Wow Wow!
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Quis, again, lets run the facts. WMD's were mentioned only twice by bush, and never as the major factor in the decision. Despite the media, this is the case. Yes, the information they had at the time was not as airtight as needed. But the representatives of this nation who were on the intelligence committee had that same info, and they agreed that he had to be stopped.
If you are referring to the BBC report, it has since been proven and admitted to by that reporter that he was the one that actually 'sexed up' his report on the report being sexed up. He was lying basically. It may not have been 45 minutes, but it was still close enough to pose a danger.
And it is pretty easy to hide biological and chemical weapons simply by starting a few fires underground if nothing else, then covering the entrance.
The evidence is now showing that the programs were in place. But all this is STILL besides the point that the main reason was his continuous defiance of the 17, then one more for 18 UN resolutions. You can keep spinning it my friend and i will keep saying this information. It is out there. Read it. Read the Mayor of Baghdad's speech to the UN from the last coupla' days.
Frankly at this point, the old saying "none so blind" is starting to gain a lot of credence in my mind.
Damn you, you kids! Get off my lawn or I'm callin' tha cops!
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And there is no question he defied the UN. Did he comply? No. Did he misdirect, delay, kick people out, admit what he was supposed too? Yes, even the UN inspector admitted that.
Damn you, you kids! Get off my lawn or I'm callin' tha cops!
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strange but not a stranger
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strange but not a stranger
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Rickshaw,
I think we are going to keep disagreeing on this.
If the reason for war is that Saddam was defying UN resolution, then it was the UN's call as to whether to initiate armed conflict in Iraq.
Big Dog! Big Dog! Bow Wow Wow!
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The UN is an ineffectual body that does not much in the world. Look at it's history, it's success' and failures. And it is not the US that caused the War. Hussein had only to comply with the agreement he violated with the UN and US. See, when he defied those agreements, we were obligated to go back in and shut him down. He was given chances time and time again by the previous administration that did not live up to their duty and role. this one did. Like it or not, we did the right thing. Still, even though we disagree, you put on a strong case. Been nice posting with you. Look forward to it again sometime. 
Damn you, you kids! Get off my lawn or I'm callin' tha cops!
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Deputy
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Deputy
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Originally posted by rickshaw1:
And it is pretty easy to hide biological and chemical weapons simply by starting a few fires underground if nothing else, then covering the entrance. Another way of hiding the evidence is to accept an 11,000 page document, and whittle it down to a mere 4,000 pages before passing it on to the UN. After all, we can't have detailed transcripts showing exactly where Iraq got its chemical/biological agents and military supplies.  Another reason why Saddam will be tried in a quick & nasty Iraqi court with a terminal finale rather than embarrass all those gun merchants who were happy to be his friend a couple of decades ago in a long, detailed international trial. 
Wayne@OZ
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Wanderer
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Wanderer
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I think it's a bit of revisionist history to say at this point that the threat of weapons of mass destruction were not the most compelling reason for war. Why did we send Colin Powell with his big presentation to the UN if not to attempt to strengthen the case against Irag'd duplicity in this matter? Wasn't that the big issue that was debated and debated before the UN in the days before the war? Wasn't that the big issue Tony Blair spoke to Parliament about?
Honestly, it is my feeling that at this point to say that the fact that Iraq did or did not have WMD's doesn't have anything to do with the necessity of the war is a bit of wishful thinking on the behalf of those who would like to forget the fact that no WMD's have been found.
White. A blank page or canvas. His favorite. So... many... possibilities.
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strange but not a stranger
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strange but not a stranger
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One more thought from me regarding the WMD.
If you were evil crazy Saddam and you had chemical and biological weapons and you had an invading army coming into oust you, wouldn't you use them?
He did use chemical weapons against the Kurds and the Iranians.
Big Dog! Big Dog! Bow Wow Wow!
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Originally posted by profh0011:
Wanna bet they'll do something about this on SOUTH PARK this week??? Looks like profh0011 was right. From MSNBC\'s Test Pattern : Saddam on "South Park": Last night's season finale of "South Park," an episode called "It's Christmas in Canada," was mostly about poking fun at our neighbors to the North.
But near the end, the Canadian Prime Minister was revealed to be . . . Saddam Hussein. Saddam is not a new character to "South Park," he's been featured in numerous episodes and even had his own song in the "South Park" movie. But this Saddam was different -- instead of the neat-mustachioed Saddam of earlier episodes, this was the wild-haired Saddam who was captured Saturday.
How did Matt Stone and Trey Parker whip up the newsy references so quickly and get this episode on the air just four days after the capture? They've done it before -- in 2000, just days after the whole Elian Gonzalez incident, they produced "Quintuplets," a episode in which Romanian quintuplets are caught in an Elian-like custody battle. One of them ends up hiding in a closet a la Elian and Janet Reno dresses up as an Easter bunny (don't ask).
At that time, one of the show's executive producers told the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette: "The show can be and has been animated in a week, but it does involve people working around the clock." It was also said that Parker and Stone finished the Elian episode just hours before it aired, and I'd suspect they did the same with this one.
With "It's Christmas In Canada," it's hard to tell if the whole episode was written after Saddam's capture, or if the Canadian plotline was simply tweaked to include him at the last minute. But either way, it was a smart twist on both the news and a longtime SP character.
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"Oh my god, they killed Qusay!"
Damn you, you kids! Get off my lawn or I'm callin' tha cops!
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Don't Stop Peelieving
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Don't Stop Peelieving
Joined: Jul 2003
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Saddam Claus sez: ![[Linked Image]](http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/nm/20031223/mdf432977.jpg) MERRY CHRISTMAS, INFIDELS!
"Anytime a good book like this is cancelled, I hope another Teen Titan is murdered." --Cobalt
"Anytime an awesome book like S6 is cancelled, I hope EVERY Titan is murdered." --Me
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Damn you, you kids! Get off my lawn or I'm callin' tha cops!
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