Legion World Forums LEGION COMPANION Dr. Gym'll's Cultural Rarities Len Wein's DCU: Legacies

I had resolved to ignore the timeline problems and just enjoy a good story but now the story isn't even internally consistent.

Even if you place Crisis at its original date (85), Paul and Jimmy should be at least in their 50's (as they were kids in WWII), not in their 30's as they appear here.

I think it's too obvious a problem not to be intentional. Expect some kind of reveal at the end.

I just blame it on George Perez drawing everyone a bit younger looking thatn they should be.

Caught up on reading these.

#3 - Good stuff. This whole thing coulda been two issues though. Same with the next issue.

#4 - Nice, but could have been longer. The backup was worth the price of admission alone. I love when Kubert draws these guys. Thought that there wasa bit of an unbelievability that all of these guys would have made it through the war.

#5 - I love Perez art, even if his poses are a bit stiff. Love that Blue Devil got at least a panel and mention. Love seeing folks that have all but disappeared in the Crisis scenes.

I'm struggling to understand why Kara Zor-El was shown in #5. If this is the current DCU then Kara will not land on Earth until after Infinite Crisis amd if it is the pre-Crisis Earth then how are (for example) the original Flash and Kid Flash from the same universe?

During the Crisis, heroes from all different eras were present - the All-Star Squadron, the Legion - so why not Supergirl from slightly in the future?

One error I noticed on re-read: Judomaster is mentioned amongst the "new (i.e., Charlton) heroes" appearing in Chicago and Hub City, but in continuity, he was WWII era. Also, they mention and depict Thunderbolt in that panel, I thought the rights to Thunderbolt reverted to the creator at some point after DC's purchase of the Charton bunch.

Chaim, I *SO* agree re: Jimmy's rehabilitation... I just KNEW the predictable route would be taken and he would be bad again... glad to see that I was apparently wrong.

I think the Adam Strange story was lacking in general. Strange himself came off as unlikable to me.

I enjoyed the Crisis segment.

^ Ditto to your whole post... though I loved Space Ranger's little sidekick guy. Zouk(?) or something is it? What an awesome team they are. I wouldn't mind seeing them show up in the Legion's time actually.

Cryll is the name of Space Ranger's sidekick, and he thoroughly upstaged his boss in that story. Which doesn't bother me at all.

I thought the backup was OK, even though Captain Comet came off as too much of a hardcase.

One thing I thought I should comment on...

I sort-of appreciated the effort made to stress when things took a dark turn... In particular I am referring to the Joker sequence. While I still find it completely unbelievable that someone hasn't snuffed out his miserable existence by now, I do appreciate the effort made to stress that he wasn't always a serial killer.

Re-posted from the "Recent Legion sightings in the DCU proper" thread -

The next Legacies cover...

http://dcu.blog.dccomics.com/files/2010/09/dculeg_cv5_6.jpg

Sun Boy, Shadow Lass, Cosmic Boy (and Supergirl) on the cover.

Plus - is that Dr Regulus' feet getting punched out by Power Girl. Or is it <strike>Neutrax</strike> Neutron or someone.

Great cover!!! George Perez is such a master. He throws in so much good stuff to please the eye. My favourite element on this cover is Vigilante getting punched out of that window by Mammoth(? I think... or could it be Solomon Grundy?). Such a small touch but a great one.

I was hoping to see Colossal Boy on here to make up for his miscolored appearance last issue (and because he always looks good in a crowd scene) but oh well.

Still a great cover. And a great book too.

Well Morrison's been exploring the Joker pretty thoroughly in his Bat-run and has stated that he actually builds a new personality for himself every few years. So he started out as the gangter/killer, then morphed into the madcap "pop criminal" of the silver age, then to the more murderous unpredictable psychopath from "5 Way Revenge" onwards. Recently he's changed into something even more murderous but less "funny". Though it remains to be seen where this personality is going as he goes up against Dr. Hurt in the current "Batman and Robin" arc (which is awesome BTW).

I recall at the time speculation that the Perez cover images we saw would be a wraparound for one issue, but splitting them up has worked fine.

Kudos to DC for shrinking the "Legacies" logo for the last issue to get more of this beautiful stuff in shot. Hope that continues for this issue.

Yes, the Perez work is nice. Much of the artwork in this series is exceptional. I'm not as excited by the story, though. It's really just a series of brief historical clips that pass quickly and don't seem to have much of a purpose. By this point it's obvious that it isn't intended to be historically accurate or to help clarify continuity. As a thematic tribute, it is failing as well. The spin being put on some of the eras is a departure from the feel I have for them. Oh well, we're almost half way through. I guess I will pick up the remaining issues and hope for a strong second half.

I loved the Perez artwork as well as Simonson's but as the series goes on, I'm only "enjoying it" rather than "loving it". I think it could have been something brillaint, but as Jerry points out very well above, it doesn't seem to have much of a story-centered purpose, and the continuity is all out of whack, so that clearly isn't the purpose either.

I don't hate it, or even dislike it, I just don't love it, which is a shame because I'm a major DC continuity buff who appreciates the most obscure story and character references.

Again though, that artwork is really terrific, and has been since #1.

Got issue # 6...the Crisis stuff was nice, Paul's encounter with the Guardian (Cadmus clone, I guess?) was very nice, the JLA mess was a bit annoying (e.g., JL Detroit lineup was there BEFORE the Crisis), Jimmy's paralysis and bitterness was unfortunate, but I'll reserve judgment until I see where that's going.

The back-up with the Legion SUCKED. I wanted to see an actual Legion adventure (akin to the Challengers/Space Heroes story) not some farce, and for crying out loud, not with Superboy/Clark Kent as the main character. And the art was terrible as well.

I thought the back-up was terrible as well. Mostly because this series has for the most part been a showcase for various parts of the DCU. So when it's Legion's turn they get treated like a joke, highlighting all the things that keep people away from the Legion (Crazy continuity, no consistency, etc.). This story did the legion no favours and was a huge letdown (even worse, it wasn't funny).

This is exactly what made me mental about it... I'm sure they are folks that'll say it's just Giffen having "fun" with the Legion, but I got tired of Giffen's "fun" a long time ago... save it for Ambush Bug...

I agree with the above criticisms. The Detroit League appearing after the Crisis was annoying. The Legion back-up was confusing and not funny.

I'll admit it: I chuckled at the Legion backup.

But it was a lost opportunity. The non-powered teams and the Space Heroes got a short adventure designed to introduce them to new readers and show how cool they are. The Legion got some comedy business based on an event already handled elsewhere recently.

The backup might have worked in a Legion 80-page giant or other special. This wasn't the spot for it.

The JL-Detroit timeline thing made me raise my eyebrows too but I can forgive it as being either the faulty memory of our narrator Paul, them forming pre-Crisis but not publicly revealing themselves until post-Crisis, or else that news channel accidentally played an old tape. LOL.

Another WTF moment - what were Booster Gold and Skeets doing there during the Crisis?!? I guess it's not much of a stretch to think that one of their many time-travel adventures will take them back to that event but still, it was a weird artistic choice for Perez to include such a definitively post-Crisis character as he is during the actual Crisis itself.

I hope we're not seeing the beginnings of Jimmy turning back to the dark side here. I was liking his redemption story.

What I didn't like either was the Legion story. Knowing it was going to be bad allowed me to lower my expectations enough to not hate it but still, I agree with everyone else - huge missed opportunity. I am so over Giffen 'humour' too (if he had anything to do with that aspect?). Maybe Wein just wrote it in what he thought was a Giffen-style? It reminded me of that excreable DnA issue also drawn by Giffen and also trying *and failing miserably* to be funny. Any reader who had just read those two stories and none of Giffen's other work with the team would have absolutely no idea why he's the respected Legion creator he is - all they'd see would be bad jokes and poor artwork.

Speaking of which, I so hope Giffen won't be drawing in this style in the Annual. It is just not good.

I liked # 6 well enough (including the LSH backup) now that I know this series is NOT a new 'history of the DCU'. How can it be when it is SO full of timeline inconsistencies?

I finally got around to #6 after WEEKS of putting it off, which is telling me something. With the inconsistencies clearly meaning this series doesn't matter in terms of any sort of continuity, it therefore must survive on the strengths of it's story-telling. And quite honestly, the story has only been 'okay'. It doesn't have the heart and soul of Marvels and other similar stories we've seen in the past. And so much of it feels like just things being checked off of a list rather than anything coherent.

I'd have preferred an approach like "the History of the DC Universe" 2-parter after Crisis if the story-telling couldn't support the checklist approach.

I don't hate the series or anything (it's no Dan Slott's Mighty Avengers or Power Girl ), but it's one of the titles I currently collect that I'm least impressed with. What is saving it for me is the fantastic art.

This series started off so brilliantly and now it's just a muddled mess. Even if we were to accept massive retcons about the order of events, it is impossible to bridge modern day with WWII in the DCU in a single generation anymore. It was stretching credibility ten years ago.

I'd be willing to overlook this if it were a great story, but really, there's not much of a story either.

So if it fails on both of these fronts, I'm left scratching my head as to what the heck it is supposed to accomplish beyond a showcase for legacy artist's revisiting their past glories.

I get all the above criticism but for some reason I'm still enjoying this series. I haven't read Marvels though so I guess I don't have anything to compare it with.

The latest issue (#7) is the worst so far though IMO. WAAAAYY too much time spent recapping the Superman/Doomsday and Batman/Bane fights. Was fun seeing characters like Bloodwynd (who was actually the Martian Manhunter during this period) and Maxima again.

I preferred the back-up to the main story this month. GREAT Bolland art and fun to see characters like the Knights, Shining and Silent again. Madame Xanadu and the fun TV show Merlin have gotten me really into the whole Camelot era lately. Would love to see a mini set during then starring all these old medieval characters!

Yes, I was disappointed with # 7 also. I'll grant that to a resident of the DCU the falls of Superman and Batman, especially coming so close together, would stick in his mind. But practically re-printing the fights doesn't make for a good story.

The Camelot one was nice, though. Len, why couldn't you have done THAT with the Legion?