Legion World Forums LEGION COMPANION Dr. Gym'll's Cultural Rarities Len Wein's DCU: Legacies

Outdoor Miner - That's very possible. The JLofA story he died in was my first exposure to Wing and the Soldiers so that's probably where I'm getting that 'unofficial 8th Soldier' business from.

This mini took a major plunge with issue #3. It contains work by one of my personal favorites, Garcia Lopez, and the legendary Dave Gibbons. Even so, I found the art pretty uninspired and boring. It lacked the silver age charm.

It also seems pretty early in the series to be introducing Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman and the JLA. The timeline seems off - one minute we're talking about television westerns and the art has a 50s feel. Then we have Superman. The implication seems to be that this is the current/modern day DC universe and Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman and the JLA have been around for almost 50 years.. Yeah, I know, comic book time. Whatever, it kind of collapses under its own weight.

Have to agree that this wasn't up there with the first two issues, though it wasn't bad. I liked the backup story, but them I've always been a Challengers fan.In general, I really wanted more time spent on the non-powered heroes of the Silver Age.

I understand that the idea is that there wasn't much in the way of costumed heroes inbetween the JSA's disbandment and the debut of Superman. But that flys against what James Robinson did in STARMAN when he gave several Golden Agers adventures in the '50s. It also doesn't take in the Justice Experience from CHASE.

The above are retcons, and they can get retconned away, but the story also skips over Captain Comet, who was genuinely active in the '50s, as has been confirmed again by the latest R.E.B.E.L.S.

The back up story was the main draw for me this issue. It would have been great to see the no costumes teams get some more time in the spotlight between the mystery men and the super heroes.

That said, I will never tire of reading the JLA's first adventure together. It's nice to have Diana back in the origin, but Dinah's absence felt just as wrong.

The timeline at this point is going to get wonnky. The JSA has always been tied to WWII, but the JLA and such have that floating status. We can't ignore their time in the 70's & 80's, but we also can't admit their longevity.

I wished they had mentioned The Justice Experience to cover the 60s/70s time-frame, but I still am enjoying DCU LEGACIES.

Yeah, more focus on Sea Devils and Challengers would have been nice.

That may be an understatement.

If Paul (the narrator) becomes a policeman in 1960 as indicated, and Superman debuts a few months after that, then that would suggest the heroes have been around for nearly 40 years DCU time.

Unless Paul somehow remembers the pre-Crisis universe, that causes a few problems.

Well if Paul remembered the pre-Crisis universe, wouldn't he recall that the JSA were from a different Earth? Or recall there were multiple Earths? Older Supermen?

I do think the Crises and Zero Hour issues will affect time within the story.

On the one hand, I'm enjoying the spirit of the series and the excellent artwork, but on the other, the timelne/continuity bits have become a distraction.

Normally I can look past that stuff, but when the 1950's & 1960's are clearly an important part of the story, it's a distraction to have the Silver Age during that time. I feel like there were several ways to have gotten around this but for whatever reason, someone decided to just leave it confusing. I'm hoping the next few issues move past that, as I felt it really hurt the third.

I really liked the Newsboy Legion scene in #2 and Kubert's rendition of Guardian just rawked on all levels.

I really liked how he worked in the actual DC popular series of the time - the Westerns (plus Tomahawk) and the non-series Strange Adventures-type stories into the narrative.

At first I was a bit distracted by the continuity/time-setting weirdness in Legacies but once I realised this was more of a thematic history of the DCU than an absolute/continuity one I became a lot more relaxed with it.

Still very much enjoying this series.

I enjoyed issue 3 a lot, as well. Nice Garcia-Lopez art, I thought. I wish he and Jerry Ordway would draw more regularly than they currently do. (Has Lopez done any Jonah Hex?)

The timing is definitely way off but is accurate to publication history. I honestly don't mind it that much. If a series is this well-drawn and beatifully-illustrated, I can overlook that stuff. Blacula's explanation is as good as any.

I am too.

Like CJ enjoys reading about the first JLA adventure, I am a sucker for anything related to JLA/JSA teamups, so I enjoyed Legacies #4 quite a bit.

Mind you, the continuity thing has gone haywire, and not just because of the timeline. The Losers didn't survive WW2, and yet there they are in a story set in 1976.

^ I haven't read #4 yet but it's disconcerting to hear that it includes The Losers in 1976! One of the things I always loved about that team is that whatever reality it is (pre-Crisis, post-Crisis, New Frontier) - they just didn't make it out of the War alive.

Adds an element of tragedy and pathos to their story and separates them from the rest of DC's war heroes who all managed to (rather unrealistically) survive it (unless you subscribe to the Sgt Rock 'shot by the last bullet fired in the war' theory that I think was bandied around for a while).

In #4, there was a bit showing the original Doom Patrol's sacrifice and how it was aired on national TV.

Y'know, if these super-teams were real, the DP would be the one the public loved and spoke of reverantly. Like how we still go on about firefighters and policemen after 9/11?

That's how the DCU public would feel about the DP.

I gotta catch up on this series...I'm 2 issues behind at this point.

Thye've tried to leave Rock's fate up in the air even when he seems to be included in modern-day stories (like Giffen's last Suicide Squad series). This is addressed in #4, but I've spoiled enough here.

In Giffen's Suicide Squad, the final issue revealed it wasn't Rock at all, implying heavily it was the Unknown Soldier (whose activity post-war as part of the CIA has been hinted at over the years). I remember reading Giffen is also a proponent of the 'Rock died in the war' theory, but wanted to throw fans for a loop.

I, personally, believe Rock died via the last bullet fired during the war. This is because creator Robert Kanigher was very firm about this, even stating it in the Rock letter's pages, believing not a single member of Easy Company lives through the war, as a tribute to the soldiers who died in WWII, many of whom were his friends. (Kanigher, like many other comics greats, was a veteran of WWII and a war hero). If it was good enough for Kanigher, it should be good enough for EVERYONE.

^ I agree. (I had thought it was Kanigher who started that theory but wasn't sure.) But it's a good one IMO and seeing Rock in Giffen's Suicide Squad was one of my main problems (among many - Gosh, was that title a disappointment!) with that book. Leaving it til the final issue to hint to us that he was an imposter was a bit too late IMO.

Seems like I saw post-war Rock appearances in other comics, but I'm not sure where. DC Comics Presents or Brave & the Bold maybe? Is the myth of him not surviving unique to post-Crisis, or was it prominent before Crisis? I barely touched Giffen's Suicide Squad, so I doubt I remember him from there.

In whatever appearances I read, I remember finding it jarring to see Rock depicted without his helmet on. I think he was depicted with a blond or graying crewcut, if memory serves.

There's a Brave and the Bold Batman-Sgt. Rock teamup, but it's an "Earth-B" teamup.

I think a General Rock appeared in Invasion or some such, but that can be rolled into the Suicide Squad thing if need be.

That's really interesting because the Big Two routinely shit all over what a character's creator or most prominent depictor felt should be the character's legacy or integrity. One of the perils of doing work for hire, definitely. I'm surprised DC hasn't brought him back as a cyborg death machine or something.

I think that *groan* the Superman creative teams had Rock part of Luthor's Cabinet when Luthor was President during Our Worlds at World. Wow, even typing that was lame.

But I think (and maybe I'm wrong) that Giffen's Suicide Squad series (which I agree, sucked), kind of implied that Rock was also the Unknown Soldier. I'm actually cool with all post-WWII appearances of Rock being the Unknown Soldier if someone stated that down the road.

The B&B stories were, as Eryk said, on Earth-B.

And yeah, I hate seeing creator's wishes shit on by the Big 2 (see: Elektra & Frank Miller).

Earth-B? Different from Earth-2?!?

I remember reading a B&B story and there being absolutely nothing in the story indicating it was set on a different Earth. Or was that just routine for B&B at some point? Can someone explain?

Oh we could start a thread that would last a hundred or more pages on the "creations being shat upon" topic. Not sure that's one I'd wanna participate in.

Earth-B is a catch-all for the stories of Bob Haney, who wrote lots of stories that failed to fit in to any sort of continuity or cohesiveness, bless him.