Legion World Forums LEGION COMPANION Dr. Gym'll's Cultural Rarities The All Avengers Thread

<span style="font-size: 8px;">yes i am still getting Avengers ... </span>

# 20 ...

was ok. Started off with some attempts at humor with Norman Osborn ... was ... kind of funny.


Norman is the current villain, and he seeks to use Hydra to discredit and destroy the Avengers.

They team splits up into twos to track down Norman ... and I think this was just done for the story as <span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">hawkey and spider woman end up on a team ... where they end up fighting hulk clones ... were as storm and hulk end up on a team together ... and iron man and protector ... of course iron man becomes compromised ... and fights protector ... it seemed obvious and contrived</span></span>

I'm still in Acuna's art is beautiful but it's looking a little stiff for these super heroes I think he does better in a more *realistic* environment and with less limber characters.

Anyway, It's got Storm, it's got some action, it's pretty ... but the drama just comes off as drama ... maybe Bendis is tired .. or maybe Hydra and super clones just dosn't seem like a big deal after all the melodramatic over the top world shattering events lately.

Secret Avengers #20: it simply doesn't get any better than this. One of the best, well-written stories I've read in years. Ellis. Black Widow. Complex time travel. All in 22 pages.

Brillaint.

When did the done in ones start on Secret Avengers? I may have to track some of these issues down.

I think around #15 or 16 kicks off the Warren Ellis issues. They've all been fantastic and each one tops the previous.

so Avengers 21 ...

has Storm on the cover, and has been circulated as advertisement as "Storm joins the Avengers".

Too bad she only gets four panels in which she lies passed out, and one she even has vomit coming out of her mouth, and no lines of dialogue not even an ... "Aargh!"


boo!

and what's with Acuna taking a break already, he just started drawing the book, in fact i was so certain he'd be drawing the insides i didn't flip through it ... to notice it was drawn by someone else.

I don't think I would pick up this issue again as it makes little progress from the last issue.

last issue, the avengers get ambushed and you know they're going to be captured. This issue they spend the whole book *getting captured*, they could easily have skipped ahead to the next point in the story where they are captured and the story moves forward.

I feel kinda ripped off.

And I\'ve now seen everything. (NSFW language)

Avenger's themed cologne.

I do love the blogger's speculation about other Avengers colognes, such as;

'Doctor Druid's cologne would be patchouli, old D&D sourcebooks and failure.'

SECRET AVENGERS #22... I'm quite impressed with the tone that Rick Remender and Gabriel Hardman achieve. It's got the mix of humor, character and action that I really enjoy. Captain Britain's a bit out of left field, but I always like that in a new Avenger. I'll miss Steve (though I suspect not for all that long), but Hawkeye's a replacement that should propel story. What direction said propulsion will take remains to be seen. I though Captain Britain's misunderstanding of Captain America's introduction of him to his new team (Brian thought he was brought on to be leader, when Hawkeye was who Cap A meant) to be funny. How long it took for the light to dawn in Cap B's eyes even funnier.

Have Beast and Captain Britain interacted somewhere before? I can't place a story or title that really featured the pair. They come off as old friends. God knows, Hank doesn't have as many of those as he once did.

Ant-man and Giant-Man on a team together? Lots of potential there... Val and Black Widow have a moment in this issue that I enjoyed, though it is somewhat familiar and old-fashioned (they pretty much turn their noses up at 'icky boys' and stomp off). It made me chuckle, though.

I don't see much truth in the 'secret' description of this team of Avengers, any longer. But I'm looking forward to this run. It's somewhat 'off to the side'. Recently, the divisions between the Avengers teams have come to mean less and less. In a way, a good thing- though I imagine it drives the 'what purpose does this team serve' people nuts. A side benefit, I suppose.

I regret to say I didn't like SA #22 nearly as much as Todd did. I found it rather uninspired and dull, although the cliffhanger was enough to keep my interest in the next issue. It's probably unfair to compare Remender's SA work unfavorably with Uncanny X-Force when Remender is probably trying for a different flavor with SA, but the dynamism and unpredictability of UXF are exactly what I loved about Avengers during my personal Golden Age (1992-94), and I had hoped to see more of the same in SA.

As for the Bendis Avengers books, the Osborn-strikes-back arc has had some of Bendis' worst writing since the early years of his run. It's so painfully obvious that this arc is pure filler until the AvX event gets under way.

And speaking of the AvX event, I have zero interest in it. I have a feeling it's going to make Bloodties look like Operation Galactic Storm.

God, this is not a good time to be an Avengers geek. I only hope that the movie might be where the franchise pulls itself out of rock bottom.

Haven't read S.A. by Remender yet, but I will say Ellis is going to be a tough act to follow. I also like Remender's Uncanny X-Force for all the same reasons you do, Fanfie. I hadn't realized the similarity to our fave era of the Avengers but now that you point it out its painfully obvious.

Regarding Bendis & the Osborn returns story. Doesn't it feel like he had a timeline written out years ago in advance and had put "Osborn Returns!" somewhere towards the end. And now by the time he's gotten to it, he totally has no enthusiasm to actually do it but feels obligated to go ahead and put it in there. Almost as if he's a slave to his own plans. I know that happens to me sometimes when I write. Then again, I'm not paid to write comic books with an editor to stop me from doing things like that. I can't help but feel its a classic fan-fiction blunder that someone should have stopped him from making. Because, getting back to the point, I'm totally with you--it's feeling like a big low point of his whole run (which has had a number of them already).

Feeling the same on AvX. Right after it was announced, I decided "you know what? I'm not collecting any of this." And that felt really good.

The Avengers have just gone through an era that I think gets an unfair wrap and has actually been for the most part pretty good. But its definitely time to move on. The welcome has been overstayed.

Yeah, Warren's struggles in UXF were very similar to Sersi's in Avengers back in the day, and yet not retro in the least. Which only makes it more disheartening that Remender seems to be going for a retro-80s flavor with SA (although that's still preferable to the retro-70s flavor of Busiek's Avengers.)

I agree that Bendis probably feels compelled to try to throw in everything he wanted to do before he leaves. After the relative amount of progress he had made in the last three years, suddenly it's amateur hour again.

I feel like we haven't even really gotten over the hero vs. hero Civil War thing yet, so A vs. X just feels like more of the same.

I guess this would be the appropriate place to discuss FEARLESS. Anyone else reading this? It features Valkyrie and Sin, the Red Skull's daughter in a dueling quest to recover the hammers from the FEAR ITSELF storyline. The follow-up is much better than the event that spawned it. I'm a big Val fan, and find myself really enjoying her here, while at the same time somewhat concerned/perplexed for/by her. It's great seeing glimpses of her long past, but all the "I'm tired", giving up her immortality, semi-defeatist stuff's a little hard to swallow. I think it makes sense in the story, and is fairly well-written. But where will it leave Val when the series is over?

Son of Satan (among dozens of other guest stars) takes a turn that's perhaps difficult to reconcile with his concurrent appearance in JOURNEY INTO MYSTERY.

I didn't like the second issue of Remender's SECRET AVENGERS as much as the first. Mainly because I'm just over heroes dying. Especially ones that are struggling to live up to their 'calling', as the character in question was. What a waste.

At least it wasn't a through away piece of writing. The story itself, was pretty strong. The robot villains are pretty compelling, at least in potential.

With the Runaways appearing in Avengers Academy, I sent a letter asking if there was a possibility of the Livewires (from the Adam Warren and Rick Mays miniseries) appearing in the Academy.

AVENGERS VS X-MEN: here or its own thread?

This week sees Vision finding out about he 'died' and then turning Wanda away from Avengers Mansion, not even letting her in the door. Pretty cold.

Again, we see an android cry.

He also attacks Magneto, but that character doesn't let guilt guide him. Viz gets a sort-of well-deserved slapdown.

So, the Phoenix Force is on the way-- and Hope thinks she's ready for it. That's going to turn out well.

FEARLESS #11: That last page with the white feather floating down on Val's open staring eyes-- that better not be what I fear it might!

I'm pretty sure we've seen post-Fearless stories for Val... but none for Aragorn! They better not be about to kill that flying horse again!!! Grrrrrr!!!!!

There's so little buzz, we might as well just do it here instead of starting a new thread which will most likely go inactive after less than five posts. Thanks for asking, though.

So are the Avengers still pretending that they are the Defenders, or have the real Avengers returned? I refuse to read the Avengers with members like Wolverine, Spider-Man and Luke Cage. Give me the 70s Avengers, or the Busiek/Perez Avengers. Y'know... Earth's Mightiest Heroes. Not soloists and psychopaths.

It's all up in the air at this moment. Bendis is leaving in a few months, so I'd say Spider-Man and Cage et al exiting is a safe bet.

They haven't announced his replacement yet.

From where I'm standing, all signs point to the pendulum swinging to the opposite extreme of where it was in 2004, and a return to the traditional-style team. But as someone whose favorite lineup is a far from traditional one (i.e. Harras/Epting) I would be very displeased if a Busiek/Perez approach was taken. Busiek and Perez indiscrimately pissed all over everything they didn't like about what came before them, and that's just rude. I'm not saying that what Bendis did was any better -- hell, Bendis pretty much pissed all over Busiek and Perez's work; karma in action. I just wish the Avengers wouldn't keep going from one extreme to another. It's not that hard to find a middle ground.

Well, I was talking more about line-ups then storylines. I'm a classics kinda person. The ultimate JLA lineup for me was satellite era (Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Black Canary, Green Arrow, Green Lantern, Elongated Man, Atom, Red Tornado, Zatanna, Firestorm, Hawkman, Hawkwoman, Aquaman). The defining Avengers lineup will always be (for me at least): Captain America, Iron Man, Thor, Scarlet Witch, Vision, Hank Pym (in some form), Wasp (yeah, I know she's "dead"), with maybe a Wonder Man/Black Widow extra thrown in.

And I'm not saying that having Wolverine, Spider-Man and Luke Cage on a team is a bad thing, and I know that there are alot of people who like them together. I just don't feel they make very good Avengers, especially Wolverine. He takes the Avengers too far into the grey area between hero and vigilante.

I can't help but feel Spider-Man is an Avenger for the long haul, but hopefully this crossover reverts Wolverine back to the X-Men.

Ummm, I haven't read the Avengers or the X-Men in ages.
Sarc told me about the Wanda 'thing', although I don't know why she's doing hero stuff again.

I don't know what the Phoenix story is about yet, but I'm going to follow the one book for awhile since the Scarlet Witch and Phoenix are in my top 5 female favorites of all time.

My hope is similar to Scott, I'm afraid.
Put things back the way they were, for the most part.
I'd skip Wanda and Vision together again and Magnus as an old man, but I'd like the mutants back, all of them.

So, this is the first of my posts on the arc/series.
I rather liked #0 and #1.
The snake villians were kind of interesting visually/conceptually and should have appeared in the Legion books and I like Hope's childish eagerness and Scott's fear and hope.

I'm going to have fun with it and I don't know Bendis from Pop Goes the Weasel, so I'm okay.
For now.

I'll be looking forward to your perspective on this, Shady!

I personally dont want the line-up to repeat any era. I want something a little fresh with some old favorites included. What I really want to stop is the Avengers being Grand Central Station for the whole MU.

Shady, thanks for chiming in. I, too, look forward to what you have to say on upcoming issues.

Both points of view are valid. However, I lean closer towards Cobie's.

The problem, in my opinion, with sticking to a certain lineup is that there's only so many things writers can do with the dynamics of that particular lineup. The risk of stagnation and redundant storylines is ever-present when this approach is taken.

My personal favorite lineup consisted of a couple members of the old guard (Vision and Hank Pym as Giant-Man,) longtime ancillary members finally moved up to the first rank (Black Widow, Hercules, Black Knight) and fresh new blood (Crystal and Sersi.) Now, I wouldn't want this exact same lineup to have a second go-round (especially because I don't like the changes that Hercules and Black Knight have been through.) What I would like is a lineup that challenges the preconceptions of what makes up a team like the Avengers (something which goes all the way back to Cap's Kooky Quartet, which, according to Cobie's dad, was very controversial at the time) while at the same time respecting what came before, instead of taking a Howitzer to it. That, in my opinion, is the only way to keep the Avengers fresh and exciting, even if it ends up stepping on a few toes.

Having an X-Men, a Fantastic Four member, a Hero for Hire and Spider-Man on the team does make it feel to me kind of like the Avengers are turning into a dumping ground for members of other teams, instead of their own team, with their own legacy.

I do like the idea of an Avengers line-up that includes a classic or two, one or two B-tier Avengers, and a new character or two.

Then again, I'm a huge fan of B and C-tier Avengers like Stingray and Moondragon and Doctor Druid and Rita DeMarr/Yellowjacket.