Legion World Forums LEGION COMPANION Dr. Gym'll's Cultural Rarities The All Avengers Thread

Oh, yeah, I think that was the ending of Infinity Gauntlet -- one of my least favorite villains starring in one of my least favorite "events."

Kinda makes the other appearances by him seem really pointless. The heroes never actually had a chance, so their fighting was really useless...it was all just him being a DB and letting them win.

The problem, as I see it, is that Starlin really had only one Thanos epic to tell, so each one was an inferior copy of the original (which I think holds up really well. The Avengers/Captain Marvel/Thanos crossover issue, #124, is excellent.)

A trend repeated with way to many villains. They're good for an epic battle, and then...not so much.

This might make for a good separate thread: "One-Trick Villains," or something like that. Care to do the honors, Dev?

Give me a day or so...I'm working on Part 4 right now.

Avengers #337 (The Collection Obsession Part 4)

The Good - We learn a lot in this issue, if you catch all the references to what the Brethren are. It came back to me as I read it, and Fanfie is right...this is a good use of a almost unstoppable villain. Evolved as the Eternals were...but from bacteria and not humanoid stock It is an extremely interesting origin for them, and makes them totally unique as far as I know.

Other than that, we get Crystal joining up with the Avengers. We also see Hank being given hints by that ever meddling, 'I cannot interfere' Watcher. They (Hank and the Microheroes) are moving closer to finsing out the truth as well.

The Bad - Not much action this issue apart from Sersi and Sybil throwing down, with Sybil turning into a muddy looking blob.

Also, there is some clunky dialog here and there due to the exposition necessary...but that's life.

The Ugly - The aforementioned brown blon that is Sybil Dorn.

The midpoint of a long story is always the hardest to write. I think Harras succeeded because the revelations and exposition were so surprising, so interesting, so different from most of what was being published in mainstream superhero comics at the time.

Avengers #338 (The Collection Obsession Part 5 - even though it says 4 on the cover.)

The Good - "Methinks I have learned a lesson here...if only I didst know what it was." - and this sums up what I love about Herc here. He is a brawler, a party guy...but he seems trying to be so much more. Sometimes succeeding and sometimes not.

One thing that I failed to mention was the covers. From Kubert on the first part of this journey, to Ron Lim taking over for the rest, the covers have been solid and nice to look at.

Art and story are tight here, no complaints in either aspect.

We learn who the true villain is, and really...it's no surprise. Fanfie is correct in that Harris played fair and created a seemingly unstoppable group to fight the Avengers, yet made their downfall easy...yet believable.

The Bad - Not a thing that I can see, outside of random name dropping where it seems a bit clunky...but you have to introduce everyone each issue for those that have not been following along. So that is not a bash at Harris, just an observation of a unfortunate necessity.

The Ugly - Not much, unless you count Olar's appearance.

I was confused by that too, they've got two number 4s i think.

the covers are spectacular, if i was reading comics at this time, i would've picked these books up from the rack.

This story arc IMO, did get much better in every way as it progressed.

( the first issue I got was the one where Cap gets that extended several page fight scene but Sersi is easily kidnapped .. and that was the one they had the two different pencillers IIRC. I think a problem with the marvel universe is that Captain America and Spider Man must be taken seriously in these huge cosmic battles and it's really unrealistic ... maybe that's why 'Gods of Evil' like Thanos comes off as a big thug with super science. I also thought Eros never got his grandeur as a 'god of love' or even Thanos' equal ... which he should be or almost be since he's fought him for centuries. (right?) )

Dev, have you ever read Thor 356? It's a fill-in issue where Herc tells tall tales about himself and Thor to a group of kids. That was the first time Harras ever wrote Herc, and even then he had the perfect handle on the character.


I agree. And it's even worse at DC, where Batman has to be a know-it-all jerk to hold his own in the cosmic battles.

Fanfie...I do not have that Thor issue, but will jot it down and look for it. I never collected Thor on any kind of basis, just getting crossovers and the like.

Avengers #339 (The Collection Obsession Part 6)

The Good - Harras gives us a nice tidy wrap up to the story. Everything is explained, and within the confines of the Marvel Universe...an acceptable resolution that plays fair with the concepts used.

The Brethren are taken care of, the Collector is taken care of...and the Watcher gets to strut around feeling he has done his part (interfering when it's his place not to. Although he does it constantly.)

The Bad - Nothing outside of the Watcher as a whole in this and just about every other appearance he has. Not against Harras in any way, this goes back to his first appearances. He is obligated to watch and observe only...yet he constantly meddles. He is a useful tool for writers when they have no way out of a situation...Harras has him provide hints, but also has our heroes discovering everything on their own.

The Ugly - Not a thing.

Overall Observation - A very well done story that gets better as it moves along. Harras plays fair with the story and follows the rules. What strikes me is the fact that with this being a 6 issue story, it was packed with info. Nowadays, it would have been at least 8 issues and had 10 - 15 spin off one shots and mini's.

On to a few fill in's and then the Big One.

Avengers #340 (Clay Soldiers)

The Good - The cover. Really, that's about it.

The Bad - Everything else. From a terrible plot, terrible dialog to sheer stupidity in the writing.

A woman gets hoit by a car running across the street to get to the Avengers (we'll leave the fact that not one of them moved in time to stop the car) and Cap runs over to her and lifts her off the ground. Now anyone of Steve's experience (and a whole lot below that) knows that you do not move someone if there is possible neck trauma.

The Police think the Avengers don't give a damn about the little peoplle, when they have proven time and time again that they do.

Although, maybe they're right...because Cap mulls over things by training...instead of, oh wait The Wasp and Jarvis did some basic research and found out the rest of the story. Cap...if you wonder who someone is and what they may have been talking about, maybe you should go and check it out.

Jarvis is sent in undercover, and shoves some ten year olds around. Albeit they are carrying guns...but still.

Then there is Bulwark. Who, if Cap is 6' something, then he is at least 10' - 11' tall.

Then, they're inside, but Cap throws and gets the rebound of his shield from outside. Not sure how that works.

Then...then...the villain says 'momma?' at the end. wth.

The Ugly - The art...'nuff said.

Skip this book if you don't already have it. It's a pointless fill in, and while some fill ins can be really good (The Krypto issue of Superman right before the reboot), but this is bad all around.

Avengers #341 & 342 (Rage of Angels/By reason of insanity)

The Good - This is a good two issue fill in by Fabian N. It's really a New Warriors story, but that's alright as The New Warriors was kicking all kinds of arse at this point in their existence. Rage ends up off the Avengers in this issue, due to the little fact that he is 14 years old. He does end up in the New Warriors after this, and is really realized a lot better than he is in the Avengers.

Also, the return of Steve Epting to the Avengers with these issues. A really welcome site after the last issue.

The Bad - Not really a bad thing, but the Avengers aare background characters in their own book, but the story itself is used well to remove Rage and set him up for the New Warriors.

The Ugly - There are a few really bad face shots of Namorita here...but ah well.

I remember those Namorita shots, I didn't know who she was.


I still LOVE that second cover.

It's a good 2-parter, and a necessary one to get Rage out of the Avengers. He really did fit in better with the New Warriors. I especially loved his odd-couple bromance with Speedball.

Two scenes from this story stand out for me. I think I mentioned them already, but they bear repeating:

- I think Falcon's speech to Rage is one of the greatest moments in Falcon's history.

- I laugh every time in re-read the panel where a Hate-Monger-influenced Namorita punches Rage and says, "Don't insult me, you hyper-thyroid side of beef!"

Fabian had the characters form the New Warriors down...although, to be fair...he either created them, or took cyphers and gave them a voice.

I did think it was a little 'convenient' that the Falcon was around, but his verbal smack-down on Rage was worth looking past it.

Can't wait for the next two issues, and then the big Operation Galactic Storm. Which I won't have until Friday, when I go and reassemble it from my comics at my folks house. Then I'll bring home the remainder of this Harras arc (through 375).

No comments on the train wreck that was #340 Fanfie?

LOL

All I can say is, if the fill-ins made it possible for Bob & Steve to do the best work they were capable of, then I can tolerate their awfulness.

I can agree. 340 was terrible, but I thought 341 and 342 were good (better if they would have just been in the New Warriors run) and served a purpose at least.

I've got a good run ahead of me (story wise) with Operation Galactic Storm, so well see how the rest of the fill in stuff fares.

Avengers #343 (First Night)

The Good - ...but, you're DEAD! Always a good way to catch a prospective buyers eye. This is the second Epting cover (last issue being the first) and it's a great one.

Thor and Crystal are put through their paces as the newbies. Thor (Eric) is not happy, and I love Herc's line to him here. "That's right good Thor, vent your spleen! 'Tis most godly!" This may draw some ire from people, but I kind of see Herc along the lines of (sounding like anyway - more than acting like) Aquaman from the recent Brave and the Bold cartoon. A bit over the top, but the guy you want watching your back in the fight.

The Black Knight get's some good play here, which is part of why I love this run of the Avengers. Dane is one of my favorite Avengers, matched really only by Hawkeye at times.

And the reveal of you know who at the end...awesome!

The Bad - The Black Knights 'lightsaber.' I know why they did it, but it still was cheesy to me.

The Ugly - The Nanny (not being mean here), she was purposely drawn to be strange looking, and has a personality to match.

Next issues cover will have a little something extra for Fanfie.

Cool. Can't wait.

I liked the "lightsaber." I thought it was a good way to circumvent the Comics Code.

As for Herc's "voice", I've always imagined the late, great Roger C. Carmel (Harry Mudd on Star Trek TOS and Cyclonus on Transformers G1; he also played a Russian spy on an episode of Hawaii Five-O, where he had a full beard and I swear he even LOOKED like Hercules!)

I've never actually read the fill-in issue. I always skip it when I reread this run. (which after all these posts I may have to do soon)

Cobie, I recommend skipping it. It's a few minutes of your life that you'll never get back.