Legion World Forums LEGION COMPANION Dr. Gym'll's Cultural Rarities The All Avengers Thread

This one is about "All Avengers" so I don't see why one can't discuss "New Avengers."

I would combine but I don't have enough desire to.

I have to admit that I'm buying all of the Avenger titles out of habit and haven't read a one since Geoff Johns?!? One day I'll start reading them and find out what you're all talking about.

Mostly? Because it's so bloody broad! Once a thread with actual content (i.e., not inane one-word posts, etc) gets as long as this thread, it's hard to find anything in it...

[Plus, stuff sneaks in that isn't entirely forum-appropriate, such as the way the "All-Spider-Man thread" has a long series of cartoon-related posts that should be in Anywhere]

I should point out that I'm not anti-Luke Cage at all. I love-love-LOVE his relationship to Danny Rand and how prominent Luke was in the recemtly-ended Immortal Iron Fist series (hopefully soon to be relaunched :crossfingers:). But more urban, street-level characters like Luke, Danny, Daredevil, etc. (even Spidey and Bucky/Cap to a degree) tend not to work too well as Avengers. Sure, there are some good exceptions, I guess, but even then, there's kind of a flash, or even glamour, that you need to have to fit in the group and make it feel more "Avenger-y".

The Avengers just aren't an urban, street-level outfit. So having urban street-level members who often fight urban-street-level menaces seems very far-removed from the core Avengers concept to me. And those're the kinds of stories Bendis does best. But it ain't the Avengers, and that's why he should never have taken the assignmnet.

And, damnit, the costumes should be bright, flashy and garish as hell with bright, flashy garish stories to go along with them!!!

And so...as my huge pile of comics twindled down, I'm left with two types: those I was saving because I know they'll be good (like the Dark Tower comics and Unknown Soldier) and those I was slightly dreading and just couldn't bring myself to read. And some of those surprised me, while some were what I expected. But the two worst of the bunch, were Power Girl ...and yes, Mighty Avengers. That means out of 87 different comic books, the four worst were Power Girl #2 and #3 and Mighty Avengers #26 and #27.

I tried...I really did try to give it a chance after Lardy put an arguement up for it and I thought maybe I was letting the momentum in this thread alter my perception. But that simply is not the case. Mighty Avengers is an absolutely terrible comic book. And Hank Pym's "It's on Bitch!" is something that cannot be ignored no matter how many issues later.

See...the utterly ridiculous Hank Pym / Jocasta romance storyline! So bad, fan-fiction wouldn't touch it!

See...Amadeus Cho beaten by 2-year old Valeria Storm in a way that makes him look utterly juvenile after Pak and Van Lente have gone to great depths to show otherwise in Hercules's comic. Nice one, Slott!

See...a FF versus the Avengers story so juvenile that it makes me wish Rob Liefield was still writing both titles, because at least he'd do it tongue-in-cheek!

See...an Inhuman threat arise that *might* be interesting...except Slott goes to such lengths to make him seem "so dangerous, we need every Avenger that ever lived!" that I'd rather read the 104th Inhumans vs. Maximus battle instead.

See...Quicksilver written completely out of character as if the last 20+ years never happened! He cowardly runs for cover and considers not standing his ground at all. Why, isn't it pretty much canon that Pietro is cocky enough to battle just about anybody, even if he loses? Since when would he be so scared? Oh, since Slott needed whoever he could to advance his crummy plot.

Then there are the little things, like the fact that the Young Avengers Vision adds absolutely nothing to this comic--he could be replaced by basically any other character in all of fiction. So why is he there? Because he's supposed to remind us of the good old days? That's as cheap a marketing ploy as dissembling the Avengers in the first place--different sides of the same coin.

Just about every character is written poorly, every story fumbles along with no dynamic pacing and no real sense of coherency. The book is terrible, and yes, I am dropping it.

Like my review of the aforementioned Power Girl, I'm of course being overly critical. But like I said, these were the worst two of the entire bunch I've been reading. And that ain't too cool.

Wow, Des--having just read the first part of the Unspoken arc, I'm really not seeing how Mighty is one of the two worst comics in all creation! I'm a pretty knowledgeable and discerning Avengers fan, but I'm just not seeing the utter blasphemy on every page that you and Stealth (and apparently Reboot) are seeing.

I'm not here to dissuade anybody from dropping the book, but I'd certainly like to address some of the offending bits as a counterpoint. So...it's on, bitch!


Utterly ridiculous? Has it not been established from the beginning that Jocasta's brain patterns were based on Janet Van Dyne's? Is it really beyond reason to see how a man who's lost the only woman he's ever really loved might turn to a being who carries some of her essence? Yes, it's kind of sick and twisted in its own way, but aberrant behavior under duress isn't exactly unprecedented in Hank's history, is it? I know you guys disapprove of some of those past takes on Hank Pym, but they happened, so it's there.

I know some other writers in the past kind of played with this in reverse by saying Vision's attraction to Wanda originated from Wonder Man's brain patterns, and they used it to explore a relationship between Simon and Wanda. Say what you want about those stories, but they didn't exactly come from nowhere. Frankly, this Hank/Jocasta thing makes sense from the perspective of Avengers history and Janet's recent loss. I don't think in any way that Slott is pursuing this without the intent of exploring the ramifications.

I think that the main purpose of this incarnation of Mighty is really to to explore who Hank Pym is and how being the focus of this group of Avengers will ultimately help him help him heal from losing Janet and from all the mistakes he's made in the past. It would be a cop-out if all this was done without some big bumps in the road along the way.

Well, it's always tough in a team book to get characters just right who are appearing in their own monthlies, especially ones as complex as Cho. But, really, you have to take into account the threat level here as being very low and that the tale was intended to be lighthearted. Spidey tends to look really dumb and incompetent in stories with this tone, but readers tend to forgive it easily with the context in mind. But since you hated the story, you probably didn't give that context much of a thought.

I thought it was very creative having Cho use the Ant Man helmet, and a lot rings true in the banter between Hank and Cho as they clash intellectually.

Gawd, I know you were being a little "tongue-in-cheek" yourself in that comment, but that was just WRONG!

"He Alpha Flighted them!" was kind of a disturbing line,but given that Bendis was the source of the allusion, it seemed appropriate. It's really too early to judge how good of a villain the Unspoken will be, but isn't it the writer's job to set up the villain as a huge threat? I guess if the Unspoken is at a Black Bolt-power level, then there's probably not much hyperbole there.

I think it's not unreasonable to think that Pietro may have done some maturing after all he's been through, enough at least to know he can't take down someone like this alone. But the specific "fight or flight" gag was just really quick and meant to be humorous, I think. I mean, he did come right back after a moment's panic. After all the time he spent with the Inhumans, Pietro would certainly have a good idea what they're all in for.

For whatever reason, the quick one-off gags seem to get under your skin more than they should. Peter David does gags like this all the time in his comics and is widely praised for them. I'm not saying Slott is in Peter's league, but it's clear he subscibes to some of his writing tools. I'd actually be interested in what Peter thinks of "it's on, bitch", actually.

I think Vision is clearly there because of the character's pedigree with Hank Pym, same reasons Jocasta and Cassie are there. We haven't seen this explored so much yet in Vision's case, but in a book that is clearly Hank Pym's, it makes sense to have characters there who can support his story. Lots of team books appear to neglect some characters in favor of others until the writer "gets" to them. I suspect this is the case with the Vision.

Well, obviously I disagree. This book is safe with me unless this arc totally fails. I have to wonder, though, on some level whether the reason this book is failing for some of you has to do with the focus on Hank. He's been a controversial character for a long time, and it seems obvious that you guys seem to want him 100% perfect and almost flawlessly heroic. How he's written here seems consistent with what I've read, IMO.

I'm glad for your counterpoints--honestly, I am.

Also, as you saw, once I got started, I let the momentum carry me into tongue-in-cheek / over the top mode. I'm old school LMB, and that's how we do it, right fearless leader?

You are probably right about Hank and his usage being a major sore point for me. But I do believe no one story or creative team's arc can be judged in a vacuum. These characters have lots of history and that history influences my feelings on future stories, whether fair or not. Its definitely hurting it here more than anything.

As for now, I will have to see how time progressess and read your reviews of the series in this thread (and elsewhere) and hope that somehow this potentially awesome series can somehow in my mind reach that potential. I'd love to see a consistent artist and someone like Greg Pak, Jeff Parker or Stealth's fave Andy Diggle take over and given a chance to run with things, particularly if they could use Hank in a way I found to be (A) respectful and hopefully redemptive and (B) not going backwards.

I guess I'm a little curious as to how you'd like to see Hank written. Should the stories from the past that have influenced this take be ignored? Because Hank has been portrayed as unstable in many, many stories. I know there were some stories I haven't read where he apparently got permanently "over the hump", but even so, losing Janet could not be an easy thing for him.

And there's also Secret Invasion, which I never read. Did it establish exactly at what point Hank was replaced? Having that info might help me a bit here.

I think Slott originally touched upon this on his last issue with Avengers: The Initative. He had Hank Pym having a deep conversation with "Janet" trying to put everything behind him and seeking her forgiveness. Which I don't think she could give him (I am iffy, I haven't read it since Jan died). Of course it was revealed that it was Jocasta, but she has Jan's brain patterns, but at the same time she doesn't have the history with Hank.

And now thinking about it, the skrull that took on his guise is the one that is responsible for Jan's death. So it must be doing a double whammy on Hank. Also Nak was replaced during his time as a Professor at Oxford, him and Jan were going through a rough spot and started to have an emotional affair with another woman. Of course the woman turned out to be a Skrull, and took Hank's role and then tried to regain Jan's trust.

I believe Secret Invasion went the route of establishing that Hank was switched right at the end of Avengers Dissembled. So while that gets him off the hook for the Chlor mess in Civil War, it doesn't change anything about his long history (hitting Jan being the major thing, but also Ultron, etc.).

I'll give you a little history on my interactions with Hank Pym, though it goes beyond the point and probably will bore most people, but I'll sucker you in with our friendship and get you to read it . I’ve been reading about Hank, usually as Giant Man, since I first started reading comics at age 11. Giant Man (and prior to that Ant Man) was my Dad’s second favorite superhero, second only to Spider-Man, but tied with Iron Man, when *he* was a kid during the actual 1960’s Silver Age. He was crushed when Giant Man left the Avengers in #16 and then exited Tales to Astonish—so much so that he was still talking about it in the late 80’s when I was old enough to read comics (as you know, I started with the Silver Age Marvels for the first several years). So that always stuck with me; he also loved the return of Hank as Goliath a few years later (still technically Silver Age, but by now the mid to late 60’s when my father was getting older). So with that in mind, my young mind undertook the project to read ALL of the Avengers and his run in Tales to Astonish (which we owned by the time I could read them), and that love of Hank transferred over to me. And so I see him very much as he was in the early to mid Silver Age, or at least, that’s how I want him to be.

But I also recognize he’s had a long history in between, which I am also very familiar with. I too loved the Goliath era, and actually prefer him with that moniker, costume and power set (the blue & yellow works best IMO). I also loved his return to Ant-Man in Kree/Skrull War, and I didn’t mind the Yellowjacket stuff in between, and then again after he’s brief stint in Marvel Premiere (or was it another one of those?) was over. The Ultron thing is forgivable and like Roy Thomas also reiterated, it led to the creation of the Vision, so that made up for it in some small way. But I do hate the Hank hitting Jan stuff that Jim Shooter gave us—so much so that I can’t stand the constant references to it these past years. I loved what Roger Stern did when he kind of brought Hank back from the brink and then I loved what Bob Harras did when he restored Hank as Giant Man in what I believe was a way that made total sense and did justice to the character and his history. Yet, Busiek then began to go through all of that again, almost ignoring those past sequences that already resolved this issue, and put him in the Yellowjacket costume—which should be never be used by Hank again—ultimately leading to Dissembled, etc., etc, and now Slott, which basically feels like yet another rehash of trying to restore Hank when its already been done.

Hank has a long history and I get that; I don’t want to backtrack to the Silver Age and pretend like it never happened because that never works and I believe comic books need to move forward. But I think Stern and Harras did a great job getting that going. I’m not saying Hank needs to be his Silver Age heroic yet tragic self, but I would like to at least seem him getting close to that, or as close he can in this modern era. I think constantly reiterating his mental problems has become redundant and further takes away pieces of the character that become harder and harder to restore.

The constant creation of new identities is something Slott or someone can say “makes sense given his history” but all it does is make him take two steps backwards yet again. He should not have become the Wasp—that’s craptastic. I’d also say he should be done with Yellowjacket permanently. Marvel has another Ant-Man by now. So I’d rather he be Giant Man or Goliath, the latter being a better moniker, and he can use it as a tribute to his now deceased great friend, Bill Foster.

I’ve already read several great stories in which Hank has moved past his problems and matured in several ways. I don’t mean for him to have no problems anymore, but how can he continue to grow and deal with new problems and drama if they keep making him deal with all the old stuff in a continual cycle. Shooter never should have written the damn story but its over by now; just like I hope they never reference that Ms. Marvel was raped or that Tony Stark had a 17 year old version of himself flying around as Iron Man, or Roy Thomas created this vastly complicated reasons for why Thor has blonde hair and isn’t reflective of actual Norse mythology, I hope they stop referencing it completely.

Since Busiek’s run, nothing good has been done with Hank, and its brought him back to almost where he was prior to Roger Stern. Busiek put him back in the Yellowjacket suit, Johns tried to move him forward but came off creepy and weird, Austen made Jan slutty and Hank an idiot, Bendis reminded fans of Shooter’s story (while Millar really showcased it in the Ultimate version) and now Slott has made Hank as crazier than ever. Its been one big pissing contest for 10 years, and I can’t stand it.

I don’t mind his long history being influenced but I think its time they stopped revisiting this plot and took Hank to new places. Keep him away from Jocasta, and yes, even the Wasp, for a good 10 years. No more creating monsters. But also don’t go out of your way to say “Hank Pym is the greatest hero of them all!” like Slott did in his first Mighty Avengers story and in Avengers: Initiative #2, because that rings false too. Move forward, but respectfully.

There was also some work done on the character during Engelhart's run on West Coast Avengers. Hank was nearly suicidal there and emerged as "Dr. Pym" with primarily shrunken gadgets kept as an arsenal of sorts and the red jumpsuit. I had mixed feelings about this take, but I could appreciate what Englehart was trying to do there--move Hank away from shifting identities constantly and get him past all his heartache. A part of this was kind of putting Hank's romance with Janet completely in the past and just making them friends.

Fast-forward to the beginning of Busiek's run (after I'd walked away from the Avengers for years shortly after Larry Hama took over), and Hank's Giant Man again and back with Janet. Obviously, I was and am a little confused about what happened in between Englehart and Busiek. I don't remember Busiek making any great missteps with Hank.

I saw his resumption of the Yellowjacket identity as a way for Hank to redeem it. I also didn't mind a lot because I always thought the costume was the very best looking one Hank ever wore. And this was after we already got to see Kurt revisit that version of Hank in Avengers Forever, so I was kinda primed for it.

As for ignoring Hank hitting Janet in continuity, well, it was just a lot more important and harder to ignore than those other examples you use as comparisons. It's infamous, but at the same time that scene was a groundbreaking one in comics. Certainly, domestic violence was and is a fairly taboo subject in comics. I'd imagine seeing that may have actually had some positive effects on certain readers, just as the Harry Osborne and Roy Harper drug stories are acknowledged to have had. So I'd definitely be against totally ignoring it ever happened.

But the fact is, Hank stopped being abusive after that storyline. Since then, it's been about his guilt over having have done that coupled with exploring some of the underlying mental problems that may have played into them. And I can see Hank exploring all of that after losing Janet. She was too important to him for him not to have issues with it. She was his strength. Having him go through this period with no issues would have made absolutely no sense to me.

Short form, Jocasta's NEVER been especially Jan-like before. Occasionally, the *idea* of being a Jan double has haunted her (perhaps most prominently, and certainly most recently, in Marvel Zombies 3 with the strange hallucinations), but she's always been a far quieter and more introverted character, while Jan (both as her usual ditzy self and the leader personality occasionally glue-gunned onto her) was an extrovert.

And, frankly, that's par for the course with the brain-pattern routine. Vision's never been written like Wonder Man (despite the occasional assertion to the contrary, even those comics only claimed it rather than showed it), Alkehma (sp?) wasn't Mockingbird, and ditto the retconned Ultron-has-Pym's brain patterns.

Well, isn't it kinda odd that none of those characters have been anything like the characters whos brain patterns they're based on? Besides, who knows what changes Hank may have made to Jocasta since Jan died to make her more Jan-like? Yeah, it's definitely (and obviously intentionally) kinda creepy, but not totally out of the bounds of possibility for a man grieving the loss of the love of his life. He'd perceive Jocasta as being a piece of Jan that lives on and that could take him down a dark path.

Not really. Go and look at the Alex Lipton stuff from the Bob Harras Avengers run (especially the Avengers Spotlight issue which introduced it... I forget the number). That basically established that the "brain patterns" don't actually have anything directly to do with the personality of the mecha - it's all about keeping the android's low-level OS functions running smoothly (without any brain patterns, Vision turned out to be erroring like mad, which is why he was acting like "a toaster". Once he got a new set, his original personality gradually began to reemerge).

Like swapping a red plastic cog for a black plastic cog in a simple machine - the colour doesn't really matter, just that it's there. Or, in a more computer-like metaphor, deleting some key DLLs - copying them from any other Windows PC running the same version of the OS, regardless of how the OS has been customised, would restore normal function.

So, basically what you're saying is that Pym has mind-raped Jocasta?

That's one (particularly disturbing) way of looking at the possibility I brought up, 'Boot. But going in a different direction (largely because I don't think that's where Slott is going with this)...even if you dismiss the brain patterns thing, it's quite possible that Jocasta would view her creator's creator with a certain reverance that could translate into a different attraction unrelated to Janet Van Dyne's influence.

So Hank could be holding on to what he perceives as Jan's legacy, while Jocasta could be mistaking one kind of love for another. It certainly happens.

Well, that was one explanation. But one of the things that causes this kind of debate is conflicting ideas writers have shown about concepts such as the brain pattern thing. Those are among the perils caused by serialized comics published decades on end. I'd argue that the stories stating there is a personality correlation are much more numerous and more prominent than something that happened in an obscure Avengers Spotlight story. I'd be surprised if there were really any references to that story outside of the Harras era in which it appeared. You choose to enter that version into canon, but obviously many other writers have chosen not to if they've even heard of the story.

That's the essential debate at the center of how Hank Pym's portrayal and by extension the Hank/Jocasta thing: what's canon and what should be ignored?

Well, how would you describe rewriting someone's personality to be more like someone else in less disturbing terms?

Telepathy (and its equivalents - and since we're dealing with sentient AIs here, it's directly equivalent) tends to get dealt with too lightly in comics. I mean, you suggest that Pym may have "changed" Jocasta to make her more Wasp-like, but say that it's "not totally out of the bounds of possibility for a man grieving the loss of the love of his life".

Let's transplant that to the real world for the moment. Let's say a man marries a woman, and she dies. And that the woman has an identical twin and/or daughter who looks just like her and are already a bit like her (although there are definitely incest overtones in Pym/Jocasta, let's say the daughter's from a prior relationship just to get that out the way). And the man decides to "change" them so that they act like his dead wife and love him "just like she used to". And proceeds to brainwash them to make it happen.

That's not just "dark". That's downright HORRIFIC, on a scale I can barely even concieve, and the man would deserve to be locked in a very small hole for the rest of his natural life.

[And, of course, let's not forget that Pym originally locked onto Jan because she was a dead ringer for his first wife...]

So, now you're saying Jocasta is sexually attracted to her grandfather?

And yeah, I'm putting bad spins on this... but, frankly, they're the sort of terms I see this whole thing in. I don't see than this whole thing CAN be put in "innocent" terms - especially with Jocasta's personality transplant, which I really find inherently and deeply disturbing. And, yes, maybe that's not what Slott intended - but if he really doesn't mean it so, that just means he hasn't thought it through.

Y'know, I think this sort of debate is the type of thing Slott hoped to start when he showed there was something untoward going on between Jocasta and Hank. It's supposed to seem a little creepy and make you wonder what exactly is going on. This was reflected in the faces and comments of his fellow Avengers who witnessed them kissing and their other interactions.

There are any number of possibilities including the ones mentioned here and at least a couple others I've thought of: A) What if this isn't Jocasta at all but a new creation that looks like her that Hank programmed to love him? B) What if one of Hank's ememies like Ultron created a new Jocasta or reprogrammed the existing one to manipulate him as part of some grand scheme? Or...

C) In this age of "temporary death" in comics, maybe Jan really is in there somehow as her eventual resurrection solution? Other than Jan not being a Marvel Universe headliner like Capor Thor, is there any reason for us to believe that Jan is really, REALLY gonna stay dead? From the first issue of Mighty, I've pondered this as being the ultimate explanation for what is going on with Jocasta and Hank, and it's still my pet theory. If I'm right, then Jan exists in Jocasta in a state of amnesia as her mind adjusts to being in its new state. Given how Hank used Jocasta to create the new Infinite Avengers Mansion, I'm not entirely sure (if I'm right) that Hank is aware of this fact. I think if he were, he'd go to greater lengths to protect her.

Hopefully, Slott will pay off this very well when he eventually resolves it with whatever spin he has in mind. I, at least, will probably still be aboard to see it.

I would be less than shocked to find they were just meant to be reacting to the robosexuality. Isn't Slott the guy who said he was creeped out by Wanda/Vision for that reason?

And Jan's shown in the afterlife in Incredible Herc #129 (along with various others, including but not limited to Blink, Banshee, Darkstar, [Black] Goliath, Puck and U-Go-Girl, Wasp, however, was one of the few ones specifically called out; while Jack of Hearts won on the resurrection slot machine.)

Much as I love Hercules and enjoyed that sequence, surely you don't expect Marvel to recognize that as being the final word on Jan or all those other characters being really gone forever? Hell, that slot machine was Pak and Van Lente's commentary on the impermanence of death in comics. I was a little surprised to see Jan included, however, as many of those others you mentioned I'd wager are among those I'd deem less likely to come back. But you never know...

Dunno about anything Slott may have said about them, but there's nothing all that novel or shocking about the 'robosexuality' in Avengers lore given Wanda and Vision even if you split hairs between what it is to be a robot versus an android. I think Jarvis and the others were reacting much more to the kinds of implications we've been discussing.

This would be a fairly standard sci-fi trope, the duplicate / clone of the person becoming the refuge that their real self jumps into when their original body dies.

[tangent] I really thought that was where the Titans were going with Match, that Conner's original soul would have become sort of 'quantum-entangled' with Match's form, and that a combination of Miss Martian's telepathy, Raven's empathic abilities, the light of the yellow sun and Joseph's temporary residence inside of Match would have been able to sort of 'fan the flames' of Conner's traumatized spiritual remains within Match, allowing him to be reborn in this new body (which would then transform to his original appearance, the damage from the cloning attempt being purged by the light of the yellow sun with a little help from Raven). [/tangent]

If Jocasta's personality becomes enough like Jan's, there's a possibility of a psychic / spiruitual connection forming, and Jan 'finding her way back.' Of course, they'll have to grow a new body for her, perhaps using some cloned tissue lying around.

Alternately, and much creepier, Jan rarely used that power, but had the ability to control insects. Imagine if during the trauma of death, a portion of her psyche fled into the tiny minds of the surrounding insect life, which gathered into a form of hive-mind, driven by confused fragments of her original psyche. The insect swarm would be a menace at first, until the cause of their aberrant behavior was found (with clues such as the insects being found in one of her old apartments, or trailing after Hank and proving resistant to his own attempts to control them, etc). The insect swarm might even attack Jocasta, thinking of her as an imposter, channeling frustration and outrage at 'being replaced.' (Primarily subconscious, as Jan's full consciousness wouldn't be present, yet, but would have to be 'jumpstarted' somehow.)

At least temporarily, the new Wasp would be a swarm of insects, able to, at best, assume a human like form. Later, some process would either transfer her consciousness into a new body (cloned from her old one), or allow her to transform her swarm-body into her original body (perhaps using Pym Particles, somehow?) and back again, giving her a new power.

Combining the two alternatives, a portion of her psyche fled to nearby insects, and Hanks 'Jan-ification' of Jocasta has *also* established a connection. The insect swarm attacks Jocasta, not out of outrage, but attempting to free up the remaining spiritual essence of Jan to 'heal' herself and become psychically whole again. The cover could have a freaky picture of a partially dismantled Jocasta, floating in a messianic pose, surrounded by swarms of insects that seem to be pouring out of her and flying around her like a cyclone.

AVENGERS INTIATIVE #27: a pretty strong paired-stories approach that lent some gravity to Johnny Guitar (who I don't really remember reading before) and restored Hardball to the Initiative, I think.

I didn't know Dragon Man was in the Negative Zone, but he made for a fun weapon in Hardball's holster.

Tigra's note was chilling. Is Greer veering too far into the dark side?

NEW AVENGERS #56: I enjoyed Mockingbird here, for the first time since her return, really. I'm still annoyed by Clint as ninja-boy, but surely that won't be for much longer?

It's was good to see the Wrecking Crew here, and the way the issue read led to a great cliffhanging moment, I thought.

I look forward to seeing the result of Loki's (still not caught up to the events in THOR? Surprising...) 'gift' to The Hood. I felt sorry for Madame Masque there, couldn't he spare a thought for her with a miracle-in-a-carton in his hand?

Somehow or other I left the store without DARK AVENGERS #9, which is supposed to feature a scene that several readers of this board would be interested in... one featuring a certain former Valkyrior and a statuesque beauty in Las Vegas...

That scene's in the preview, actually. I knew they were going to make us wait for Exodus.

DARK REIGN YOUNG AVENGERS #4: Does anyone else feel a little pang of dread when seeing that cover?

Anyway, for a change, it actually does portray a scene that occurs in the book, or at least the beginning of a scene whose conclusion is left for the reader to infer.

Who would've guessed The Vision had fantasies about girl-on-girl action?

The other characters progress pretty much as they'd started... Enchantress swirls in her fog of mystery. Melter makes a decision which will have consequences for both Young Avenger teams.

NEW AVENGERS #57

loving mockingbord. did anyone get the feeling the tide was starting to turn, how ms. marvel handed iron patriot his butt. also, loving immonen's art, i loved his gestural quality way back in legion of super heroes too.

someone should get monic rambeau captain marvel to come wipe the floor with moonstone.

i was a bit weirded out by

YOUNG AVENGERS #5

really? they beat sentry, daken, and iron patriot?

ULTIMATE AVENGERS #3
hmm? who's spidey? who are gonna be the new avegers on caps side to get rid of these villains?