Legion World Forums LEGION COMPANION Dr. Gym'll's Cultural Rarities Green Lantern: Rebirth (#6... Finally!)

Alan wasn't in a title because they cancelled it due to low sales. Low sales was why they ditched Jordan. The napalm job was done to explain in continuty why Jordan was no longer GL, why there was no longer a GLC. The choice to drive him insane was made instead having him resign (again), or killing/maiming him beyond use. Would there have been any acceptable way for them to retire the character that you wouldn't have found offensive?

As for sales, it's well reported that "cape and cowls" vastly outsell other genres. And then, it's overwhelmingly vintage characters. Look at the BREACH thread, or FALLEN ANGEL. Look at the initial response to WB's update of the Loney Tunes characters.

B&J are selling cherry vanilla or chocolate chip or cookie dough- just like Kemps, Eddys, Breyers, etc. Funny names for flavors that have been around for years. There's a local shop that serves a Green Tea flavor that leaves me feeling warm all over, but it will never survive amidst the chocolates and vanillas- people just won't take the risk.


I'm no different mind you. Kyle is my GL, and I'm only buying Rebirth to see how he's handled. I won't be reading the new GL series, no matter how good Johns writes it. And judging from his work here, it will be exciting. He's written Sinestro as downright evil, cold and calculating. Hal is bold and courageous. The artwork is incredible; Ethan's drawn human characters with human emotions. I'm stoked to see his blow out battle scenes coming up.

I know. It happens. The point is they didn't feel the need to drag the character through the mud to make way for this new Hal Jordan guy.

Yes. Retire him. He gives up the job. He can act as an advisor to Kyle if they want him around, or TPTB can put him on a bus. But he never picks up the ring again.

I wouldn't have minded if they had killed him off actually, had the death been handled in a way befitting a character that important to the company's history.

One of my favorite comic stories remains the send off given to Jim Corrigan at the end of the Ostrander/Mandrake character. No reason to ever see Corrigan in a present day story again, as well as that was handled. And the Spectre was a long-term favorite of mine.


And the company probably isn't doing a lot to market it, which is more to the point.

I have no problem with new comics, or updates of old comics, being marketed to a target audience that isn't me. I welcome this: The more readers, the better. I have a problem being told that I am responsible for those comics not succeeding. Especially when the companies do next to squat in terms of promotion.

"Alan wasn't in a title because they cancelled it due to low sales."

The revived GREEN LANTERN series must have had decent sales at some point. After all, they started doing SPIN-OFFS-- MOSAIC, GL QUARTERLY, a GUY GARDNER miniseries... It was when Andy Helfer stepped down and his halfwitted assistant got a promotion that things went TO HELL and picked up speed. Within a year of the changeover, Hal Jordan began appearing in JLE and L.E.G.I.O.N. in addition to the other 3 books, they began changing artists on an almost monthly basis, they began using more and more sub-standard artists... I mean, HELL, I was buying the book, and I was getting fed up with it! I wonder how many other fans got fed up with it and just stopped buying ALL of them? (One really good book, to me, beats 3 or more third-rate books everytime.) When a friend of mine told me about "Emerald Twilight", that was it for me. My last issue was #47, and I haven't bought it regular since.

"Yes. Retire him. He gives up the job. He can act as an advisor to Kyle if they want him around, or TPTB can put him on a bus. But he never picks up the ring again."

When Gerard Jones took over in the middle of EMERALD DAWN, he wanted to retire Hal and start the new GL series with a brand-new character, much as Roger Stern had done when he created a brand-new STARMAN a couple years earlier (and James Robinson did a few years later). But editor Andy Helfer convinced him otherwise. At that point, Jones hit on the idea of giving Hal's career "closure". At the end of a 5-year story arc, Hal would step down as a GL, but REMAIN a hero with the power-- only no longer on the leash of the Guardians, who it turned out were responsible for the death of his father, and had been manipulating him ever since.

"I wouldn't have minded if they had killed him off actually, had the death been handled in a way befitting a character that important to the company's history."

Had they done THE FINAL NIGHT instead of EMERALD TWILIGHT, and Hal had "simply" died SAVING THE ENTIRE EARTH... I don't think too many people would have raised a stink. (The poor guy had been pretty much burned out for decades as it was thanks to the efforts of ALL THOSE writers & editors who KEPT screwing his life over, again and again.)

"One of my favorite comic stories remains the send off given to Jim Corrigan at the end of the Ostrander/Mandrake character. No reason to ever see Corrigan in a present day story again, as well as that was handled. And the Spectre was a long-term favorite of mine."

Oh GOD... I LOVED that story!!! Especially the last page. The firey HAND OF GOD comes down and (just like in THE TEN COMMANDMENTS) writes the epitath in the headstone: "James Corrgan: Servant Of God". WHOA!!! What a classy way to go out.


Unlike many GL fans, I've remained silent on this for 12 YEARS. When I heard about GL: REBIRTH, I was apprehensive. When #1 came out, I put off reading it for several days. But by the time #4 came out, I read it FIRST.

Oh yeah-- and I dropped LEGION this month, too. I'd rather only read stuff I enjoy. Otherwise-- why bother?

You wanted a fitting send of for Hal, respective of his heroic career. You would have liked to see him true to character making a noble choice (death or retirement), and fade to obsurity.

I don't begrudge you that. I know I'd prefer my favourites go out in a manner I think is appropriate.

I guess my arguement concerns the radical character shift. I'm not denying it's radical, but that's comics. To disagree is fine, to not read the book is equally acceptable. To berate a writer, denigrate an editor for ideas you don't agree with doesn't seem right. Calling them hacks or attacking their ablilities isn't okay.

DC asked Marz to bring in a new GL. They gave him the job with the orders to remove Hal and the Corps. Their reasoning was to increase sales, because the book was getting low sales with Jordan in it. How many series had Hal stared in that eventually suffered in sales? Some readers didn't like the napalm job, I found the story interesting. They stopped reading with Kyle, I started. Considering the book grew in sales, the story couldn't have been too bad. Only now, after folks have drifted away, are they revamping the book again.

Batman hates guns now; he use to pack heat. Radical character shift, and some folks may not have liked it. Some folks may have stopped reading Bat books because of it. That's fine. But I prefer the anit-gun sentiment myself, and a lot of readers must if he's the number one character in DC's stable. You may not like the idea, but it doesn't mean the writer/editor are bad.

I guess I'm more upset at the lack of respect the creative teams get for trying something different. Sorry, didn't mean to hijack the thread.


Best part of all this, Hal gets pants finally.

He also loses the grey hair, which is much more important to me. I didn't need a new outfit, but the one Pacheco came up with is pretty good because it doesn't stray much from the Kane version and probably won't seem dated a few years from now.

DAMN. It just keeps getting BETTER!!!!!

Back in 1986, I heard someone say "There's no such thing as a bad character, just bad writing." Which is why they bumped off Supergirl. The same goes for Hal Jordan.

WOW!!! Amazing what you can do with good writing.

In the flashback, Sinestro said ONE thing that made sense. Hal WAS wasting time. With power & responsibilities like he had, WHY was he fighting 5th-rate costumed villains? Back then, I always got the impression he was handled better in his JLA adventures-- even though, by rights, he could have been mopping the floor with them.

Now this is something. Kyle respects Hal. HAL respects Kyle! Both John & Guy are well-written. Things are building and building, and going along SO amazingly...


...until the last 2 panels. SON of a BITCH!

I'm assuming everyone remembers the famous "joke" scene where Batman took out Guy with "one punch"? Guess what I'm waiting (and hoping) to see at the beginning of the next issue? SOMEBODY needs to put that BASTARD in his place...

The fight with Sinestro seemed to happen rather quickly. But it was incredible to see Ethan's working detailing the battle. And thanks to Geoff for giving Kyle the respect he deserves.

Yeah, I was a bit disappointed with the Sinestro fight as well. It started off really good, but it was a bit lacking - no interesting constructs and the straight mano-a-mano showdown doesn't offer a lot in terms of plot. I was also hoping for more explanation about Sinestro's "death" and resurrection.

I expect Jonhs has plans to really follow up on Hal and Sinestro's relationship eventually in a more satisfying manner. This series is more about Parallax as the main threat.

The Batman/Hal confrontation might be more interesting!

Sometimes.

Though, even as a kid, I could tell the writers were struggling to find ways to keep Hal from taking care of everything in a page or two.

They didn't seem as worried about Supes or Flash, for whatever reason.

Did anyone else think that when Parallax said he sensed a disciple, he was talking about Bats?

"Criminals are a cowardly, superstitious lot..."

Bats' greatest weapon is fear. Seems like parallax would be suckin' the muck off his boots to use him.

But the absolute best thing was the nasty lil' smile on Hal's face after Sinny punched him through the Watchtower wall out onto the surface of the moon.

THIS is the Hal we have all been waiting for. Tough, smart, and ready to throw down.

Yeah, it seemed to me that Parallax was referring to the fact that Batman has always used fear as a weapon (and means of control -- Sinestro-like much?) Makes me wonder if Johns plans to humble Bats by saying that he's been feeding Parallax by fomenting fear all this time. I wonder if he'll present Hal as the antidote to fear -- namely HOPE (he's already mentioned hope as their greatest weapon).

I just set this as my new wallpaper. I love Legion, but Hal is tha man.

http://www.dccomics.com/media/covers/2765_400x600.jpg

Yeah, Hal's the man!!

Nifty!!

Sweet!

Hal Jordan avatars for everyone!

I think if i can't actually name my kid Hal if its a boy, i might just call him that. Problem is, my wife's name is Carol. Thats kinda wierd, lol.

for #6!

Now DC can release GL#1 without looking silly... :rolleyes:

Not sure if I ever posted my reviews of the last issue. Some highlights:

-Hal smiling. Welcome back GL

-Hal and Kyle shaking hands. This had such a heroic, bright silver age feel to it, although clearly written in the modern style...it was just awesome.

This series is kicking ass. It's just about damn time, what more can you say? Here's to more, more and more!

"YEAH, BABY!" I am so enjoying "America's Number One Hero" back in action again...

Oh, YEAH, great to see Hal back, TOO!

I just KNEW Batman was gonna get the "one punch" treatment. I just wasn't sure if Hal was gonna do it (my first instinct), or if it'd be Guy-- both in retaliation for all those years ago, AND, standing up for Hal.

Having Alan & daughter show up to give a "back off" to the JLA and assorted stragglers was nice. Do those guys think they're the ONLY heroes around or something? (Also, it keeps striking me that, whatever's gone on in recent years, I keep having trouble thinking of Wonder Woman as one of the "big three", if THIS version of WW didn't make her debut until AFTER the CRISIS. Blasted rewritten history...)

The climactic fight didn't do much for me. Funny this was my least-favorite chapter of the story. Oh well.

"I lied." Great. Now why does this make me think William Shatner might have made a good Guy Gardner? (Anyone who's seen his COLUMBO villains would know what a scuzzball he's capable of portraying... heehee)

I'm glad he's on good terms with Carol-- but NOT gonna be in her life (or vice-versa) as in the old days. That should have been over since Steve Englehart's run.

Hal & Ollie-- BOTH back from the dead. Is that cool, or what?

I'm really looking forward to the next GL episode. I can't remember the last time I ever felt that way!

-- The punch: Batman surely had it coming, but it still seemed a little forced in terms of reflecting Guy's experience. I would have rather seen Hal and Batman go at it verbally a little to show how one is about "fear and darkness" and the other is about "light and courage" rather than simply have Hal say it in the narration.
-- After last issue's less than satisfying battle with Sinestro, I was hoping the final confrontation with Parallax would fit the bill. Unfortunately, it didn't quite. Basically they just fire their beams at it and pour on the willpower. Those kinds of resolutions don't exactly excite. That said, Johns' intentions appeared to be to spotlight the various GL's as they're doing this, which he does admirably. I couldn't help but feel that he didn't quite get Kyle though (or maybe Hal doesn't get him). I don't see Kyle as a perfectionist in the way he approaches art. Sciver's drawing doesn't help with the corny "hand on his chin" pose. It makes Kyle seem too methodical when (I think) he's more about imagination and inspiration - the spark of that creativity rather than the reworking and refining of it. And even if other artists don't like manga constructs, Kyle does - that should've shown through.
-- The resolution with Batman just seemed tacked on. He seems to give tacit approval --- why? This isn't "Top Gun" where Iceman says "you can be my wingman anytime". After all his moaning during this mini and what we know he knows about the mindwiping, that last line seemed to come out of nowhere.
-- Very fitting that we end with Hal and Carol then Hal with Ollie. I hope Carol remains a presence in the new series but hopefully it won't go into soap opera territory too soon. I tried for a minute to figure out if it even makes sense that Ollie would still have Hal's battery, but y'know what? I don't think I care. HAL's BACK!! (*LOVED* that last page!)

Well, i discuss the "One Punch" thing over on the DC boards, so i won't get into it here. But i did find it a satisfying conclusion. The only thing i really didn't care for...and i know that since i am not a big follower of his, and others are, it may strike a chord, but...

Guy. I wish he hadn't been returned to being a GL. He had moved on as a character, while others were still involved in the GL mythos. But, thats just me.

I'm wondering how this fits in with ICBINTJL. I guess we'll have to see how things stand with Guy at the end of that arc in JLA: Classified.