Legion World Forums LEGION COMPANION Dr. Gym'll's Cultural Rarities Green Lantern: Rebirth (#6... Finally!)

Capsule review:

My thoughts:

LOVED it. I expected it to be excellent, but it exceeded my wildest expectations. Already one of the best things going in comics right now IMO.

Here's some reasons why:

-A total nod to all eras of GL's past. I like that.

-Best John Stewart scene in recent memory. Him standing up to Batman, for Hal nonetheless!, and really laying into him was perfect. Good for John! I'm with Drake, in that I hope this helps move John past his guilt over the Cosmic Oddysey thing. I'm not sure if you guys heard this, but DC has said that John will be the JLA GL for at least a year after Hal comes back. This reminds me that good writing = good characters. The John's written John Stewart, just like the John's written Hal Jordan, is much more likeable than the Marz's written ones (and other writers).

-Guy being treated as a character and not an archetype. I like that although Guy is a jerk, he does have real motivations and is heroic when it comes down to it.

-The art is amazing. Really plain amazing.

-Seeing Hal, Carol, Alan and Kyle, all waiting to become involved. I'm growing very anxious, and a lot has to do with Geoff John's story-telling. His track record for treating characters from different eras right has me more optimistic than ever.

-Most of all: Hal being written as a true hero, and not a whiny psycho. This is what I'm looking forward to the most. And the idea of he and Batman not getting along, b/c he's the only one that never bought Batman's 'schkit' by not being afraid of him is awesome.

-I hope Kyle fans, like Reboot, get to see Kyle treated right similar to how John Stewart and Hal are being treated right. I'd much rather have a united GL fanbase than anything.

Here's to Hal's return!

Hey Cobie, have you seen Hal's new (upcoming) outift as designed by Pacheco? Any thoughts?

Funny, that's how I felt about "Emerald Twilight" - that it was an editorial edict and the story was just a formality. Marz himself has acknowledged that it was a rush job and he was a Hal fan, so the story wasn't even in him. This is different because Johns wants to write this and he has a respect for the characters.

The "jumbled mess" is just starting and is meant to introduce various elements that are pieces to a puzzle that will fit together by story's end. As a first issue, it tells a lot more story than a lot of other books (with a much smaller scope) that take forever to introduce its elements. And in terms of gravitas, it holds a lot for Hal fans who have been waiting ten years for this.

Being respectful to continuity never excluded explaining how someone can be redeemed or even brought back to life. A lesson that can be learned by this series. When characters can interact with ghosts or demons from hell or Valhalla or whatever, I never understood why some fans have this insane edict that dead characters must forever remain dead. If there's a story to be told, tell it. Especially if it's done right.

What's interesting is how in recent years the writers have made the characters themselves refer to the revolving door policy of death. They take it somewhat in stride now as simply part of their lifestyle (and does anyone really think Hawkeye and Vision are gone for good? Poor Scott Lang and Jack of Hearts though...)

SPOILERS for #2
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-- The excitement from the first issue is built upon very nicely here. All the various threads are advanced, leading to something that feels "big".
-- I was never a huge fan of Guy Gardner, but it was pretty cool seeing him back in the Green and Black.
-- Even though the intentional rollback of the GL's to past incarnations might be a bit obvious, I think it's done well dramatically and so far is still intriguing to find out who's actually responsible for all these changes (I'll state again that it definitely seems like Alan Scott is becoming human again, rather than "living flame").
-- The Hal/Carol scene was really sweet and the retcon of her being there for Hal's tragedy only serves to reinforce that these two were destined to be together.
-- I liked the line about how when you see your worst fear realized, you have nothing left to fear.
-- It looks like the various GL's are being possessed by the "impurity" by using their rings. Kyle's knowledge of fear and determination to not use the ring saves him. Kyle's really being shown as a true hero here - no hint of "the rookie".
-- Unlike some other high profile events, this one is actually about building something up rather than destroying everything in sight. It's a welcome change.
-- The "body of Hal Jordan" thing strikes me a bit like Jean Grey in Jamaica Bay, but we'll see where Johns goes with this.

I'm loving this too. Johns is really impressing me with this series.

Me, too, but I'll lose a lot of respect for him if what Previews indicates will happen in #5 is what I think it is.

I reserve judgement on this series. I respect Johns, his work is brilliant. I have never been disappointed with him before. That being said, I love my GL & it is very hard to read this and not tear my hair out. I know it must be going somewhere though...

I agree Ferro about Previews for #5. Why do I think somehow all of this will be linked to "The Ultimate Gl Villain" Sinestro?

Got to ask - why do people WANT them to cop out on the "Hal went mad" bit?

Cause it was just plain stupid. An extremely poorly written and bad idea that deserved to be righted.

I thought it was very stupid, but just the same it happened. The only way I can see Hal becoming a hero is if he's not responsible for his actions. Otherwise, I think he's so far beyond redemption that he doesn't even deserve to be the Spectre.

I hated Kyle initially (writing, mainly) but grew to like him when Morrison was writing JLA. I'll be sorry to see him go. My alternative to him would definitely be John Stewart, but I guess that's not going to happen.

I'm telling you now... they're going to say that Parallax was Sinestro in Hal's body. Betcha'!

Well, not betting anything substantial...

They better freakin not. And for the record, I like the fact that Hal snapped. Hero or not, if some dirtbag nuked my hometown, I'd lose it, too.

Brainy, I'm just saying, as it looks right now, they're trying to make Hal as squeaky clean as possible.

When Sinestro was originally executed, his spirit went into the main power battery (because of a curse not permitting any Oan ring bearer to kill a Korugarian), causing it to explode. Guardians resurrected Sin to defeat the apparently 'crazy' Hal. Hal snapped Sin's neck on the steps of the main power battery. Thus sending Sin's spirit back into the MPB before Hal entered it, sucked it dry & became our beloved time-warping madman.

Now... Here's why that theory doesn't work. Hal killed/maimed ALL of the GL's before entering the battery (backing up your 'I would do the same thing if my home town was nuked' statement), thus he was loons before setting foot into the MPB. Also, in the (incredibly disappointing) Spectre series, Hal tangles with Sin's spirit, defeating him.

Maybe that Monsieur "whats-his-face" villain from the Spectre series is behind it.

People on the DCMB are saying that Johns has stated that Sinestro won't be appearing in "Rebirth" (take that for what it's worth). But since Sinestro appeared in "The Spectre", it's unlikely he had anything to do with Hal going nuts. It seems Johns wants to explain away Hal's actions before he entered the CPB and became Parallax (good!). The other GL's are certainly acting as nuts as Hal was during his malicious journey to Oa in "Emerald Toilet".

"Funny, that's how I felt about "Emerald Twilight" - that it was an editorial edict and the story was just a formality. Marz himself has acknowledged that it was a rush job and he was a Hal fan, so the story wasn't even in him."

I'm reminded of BENEATH THE PLANET OF THE APES, a movie where it's always felt they were determined to get from "point a" to "point z", even if NOTHING in between made any sense at all. (And really-- the ONLY reason they blew up the Earth was so there could "never" be another sequel-- which didn't quite WORK, did it?)


"The "jumbled mess" is just starting and is meant to introduce various elements that are pieces to a puzzle that will fit together by story's end."

One of my favorite movies as a kid was THE PINK PANTHER (1964) which starts out with 4 seemingly unrelated storylines going at once-- and then proceeds to have them all slowly intersect. Of course, I've seen it done hundreds of times since-- often in comics-- and almost never as well done. (So far GL: REBIRTH seems to be an exception. Yay!)


"As a first issue, it tells a lot more story than a lot of other books (with a much smaller scope) that take forever to introduce its elements. And in terms of gravitas, it holds a lot for Hal fans who have been waiting ten years for this."

I NEVER do this-- but so far, I read both issues of GL: REBIRTH-- TWICE in one sitting when I got to them. I was so blown away by every little detail and every line of dialogue (WHAT does he mean? What is REALLY going on???) that as soon as I finished reading I had to read it again and really let it soak in.

I stopped reading GL with GL #47. A friend told me what was planned for #48-50, and I'd just had enough. So I NEVER read the infamous "story" that fans have been fighting about for over a decade. But I know it was "wrong"-- and every appearance of "Hal Jordan" since then, it's felt "wrong"-- because the writing / characterization was so bad, so "off", I couldn't believe it was the same guy. (Of course, I feel that way about 99% of Batman's appearances since the CRISIS-- but that's just me.)

One of my favorite lines in GL: REBIRTH #1 is when Batman says, "Hal Jordan NEVER changed." This is so spooky! John puts Batman in his place for forever bad-mouthing Hal. But what if ALL THIS TIME, Batman actually knew that the guy he was bad-mouthing WAS NOT Hal Jordan?

I'm not sure where Geoff Johns is going with this-- I'm almost afraid to think about it too much-- but I am hoping my own hopes. It would just amaze the HELL out of me if by the end of this, we found out Hal NEVER went crazy. It would be a complete slap-in-the-face to Kevin Dooley, the self-proclaimed "#1 Green Lantern fan", who DESTROYED the reputation of a hero just for a sales gimmick, then refused to go back on it because his ego wouldn't allow him to be proven wrong.

Just like the BBC / DOCTOR WHO situation, the people responsible for making Hal go away are NO LONGER IN CHARGE-- so at last, others who DO love & respect the character, can finally bring about his return. (All the excuses and "logical explanations" in the world mean nothing compared to the simple truth that these characters disappeared because certain individuals in positions of power just didn't like them, personally.)

IIRC, didn't Charlton Heston say he'd only do the sequel if his character was killed off? They may well have figured the franchise was toast at that point anyway.

But I'm way off-topic now.

Who/whatever "Parallax" is, it could have seized control of Hal before he entered the CPB, much like we're seeing with John, Guy and Kilowog now. The outward manifestation of Parallax was only seen after Hal emerged from the battery, true, but this WOULD explain why he maimed/killed corps members prior to entering it.

It works for me.

"didn't Charlton Heston say he'd only do the sequel if his character was killed off?"


YES.

First of all, NOBODY wanted to do a sequel-- all connected with the film felt POTA was a "complete" story that did not require a follow-up. But public demand created STUDIO demand. Countless scripts were considered and rejected, and throughout Charlton Heston had no interest in doing a series. Finally he suggested having his character disappear at the beginning, then come back at the end to die. And while they were in production, he also suggested blowing up the Earth, so NOBODY would have to do another sequel. THANKS A LOT, CHUCK!!!

I've long imagined how much better the film could have been if Heston had been in it throughout; if the mutants had been slightly less INSANE; if Nova had NOT gotten killed (the real "point of no return" for the plot); and if they'd gotten RIGHT UP to the point of setting off the bomb, but prevented it from happenning. If the war-mongers on both sides had been killed, and those left would realize they HAD to work together to make a better, peaceful future. Kinda like the last-minute story revisions they actually did make on BATTLE FOR THE PLANET OF THE APES, the only one of those things with an "upbeat" ending.

Too bad they didn't wait several years to do a sequel, so they could do it "right"-- like what happened with the 2nd ALIEN movie. (Of course, they had their own BENEATH... it was called ALIEN 3. UP YOURS, Sigourney Weaver!!!)

You're probably right, but I recall a lot of sci-fi films from the period having downer endings - it seemed like the thing at the time.

I hadn't known BATTLE had gotten a last-minute story revision, but I can see it. Of course, given that it seems to be a prequel to PLANET (I say "seems" becasue I've heard theories to the contrary), even the upbeat ending loses a bit since you know how things turn out.

i've really enjoyed the first 2 issues of "REBIRTH" !!! Geoff Johns always includes the right amount of in-continuity "events" and new developments for my liking !!!

i'm looking forward to see how this all affects the related GL characters and i'm wondering if he's gonna return the YELLOW weakness to the rings ???

and also maybe tie-in the GOLDEN AGE GL, more so with the Guardians ???

Matthew.

"I recall a lot of sci-fi films from the period having downer endings - it seemed like the thing at the time."

For decades afterward, I harped on BTPOTA as having the ULTIMATE all-time worst-ever bad ending in movie history. It seemed like it wasn't until STAR WARS came along 7 years later that it began to be safe to hope for a good ending for movies again.

"I hadn't known BATTLE had gotten a last-minute story revision, but I can see it. Of course, given that it seems to be a prequel to PLANET (I say "seems" becasue I've heard theories to the contrary), even the upbeat ending loses a bit since you know how things turn out."

I think it was JUNIOR SCHOLASTIC magazine that printed a early digest version of BFTPOTA 's script. In it, the remaining mutants were shown watching over the Alpha-Omega bomb, waiting for however long it might take, to safeguard the human race. This was NOT even mentioned in the finished film. Plus, the prologue & epilogue with "The Lawgiver" showed apes & man living together in harmony hundreds of years later, and strongly suggested that time HAD in fact been altered-- and in the long run, for the better. After 4 hopelessly pointless downbeat endings in a row, I was happy to finally see an end to the damned thing.