Legion World Forums LEGION COMPANION Dr. Gym'll's Cultural Rarities Countdown

The pace has definitely hit a brisk stride. I'm not quite convinced on how well the 'coming together' is working (mainly Piper)- but the countdown is now certainly more exciting than much of the previous issues.

I think they should have called the series something else until the last ten issues- when the COUNTDOWN title would've taken over.

I'm intrigued by the Greek pantheon in general, and by their gifts in particular. Does Mary have new entities comprising her SHAZAM sources? Harley and Holly as recpients of god-given superpower? Really? Will this last?

Is poor Piper going round the bend, or is this just an extended reaction to Trickster's death, desert privation and a bad reaction to boom tubing (the last is really a stretch to my suspension of disbelief, by the way)?

One thing I have disliked about this series is that it seemed like they were trying to give Donna and Jason some friction (a la Dave & Maddie on Moonlighting back in the day). I definitely hope not, Donna needs to stay out of any other heroes beds for crying out loud! Not to mention, but Jason should really be quite a few years younger than Donna to begin with. I remember a 2 part Titans issue where Jason as Robin filled in when some Titans were missing, and he seemed like a little kid compared to the other heroes, Donna included.

I will say that "Red Robin" is a cool name... for a burger joint! Love their "Steak Fries"!! All-you-can-eat even!!

OK- so Piper contains or embodies or channels a piece of the Anti-Life Equation... giving him the power to 'pipe' up Boom Tubes with his instrument. And blow things up. Things like Apolcalypse.

For this, Trickster had to die?

C'mon-- who thinks these abilities will still be in play a year from now, assuming Piper survives the explosion at #9's end and the rest of COUNTDOWN?

Red Robin bores me silly.

Mary and the Greek gods intrigue me-- more of that, please.

Even Harley and Holly and their god-given abilities (whatever they are) make me curious to see more of them (didn't think I'd be typing that a couple of months ago--)

Ray in costume! Should be 'hurrah' but I didn't really even notice it had happened till a couple of pages after his 'reveal' (poor artistic pacing, that).

Una's Una again, rather than an OMAC (at least we're meant to *think* that she is--)

Karate Kid's the subject of an autopsy (is it an autopsy if the subject's still alive? I'm not sure--), but he's apparently surviving- barely.

I'd enjoy this alot more if I thought any of this convergance was going to stick and mean something. Piper, Atom and Donna and Mary are characters that I like alot and I would've enjoyed an ongoing link between them-- like that between Animal Man and Starfire and Adam Strange as a result of 52. Don't see it happening, though.

So I read the last eight issues of Countdown in a row, thinking that maybe, just maybe, if I read a bunch in a row it will enhance my reading of the story.

It hasn’t.

Basically, this reads like the kind of comic book stories I would write when I was about ten years old: “hey, lets have this awesome mega war with Monarch and the Monitor, which lasts for issues on end, and then check this out dude—we’ll have Superboy freakin’ Prime show up and it’ll get real crazy! Then this Batman from another earth, which no one gives a crap about anyway, will get his head smashed in, and then how about this ending? A nuclear friggin explosion that wipes out the entire friggin’ Earth—no wait, the entire freaking universe!!!

There’s more brah. Then we have everyone show up on Apokolips cuz Darkseid was the bad guy all along (hey, who cares if that’s the most lame surprise EVER) and it’s this cool chess game thing between Darkseid and the Monitor baddy (yeah, I stole that from LEGENDS, Eclipso and just about every Darkseid appearance in the last 20 years) and then its BROTHER EYE vs. Darkseid!!! Just when you thought the Superboy Prime/Monarch battle couldn’t be anymore childish or fanboyishly awful, we’ll get another stupid 4-issue spanning battle!

Red Robin? Uh, no one cares about Jason Todd.

Mary gets her powers back? Uh, no one gave a shit about her losing them in the first place—it’s the lamest ‘personal journey’ I’ve ever read in comics. It’s the opposite of Montoya’s journey in 52 in terms of quality.

Piper and Trickster being played by Desaad all along? It took 50 issues to show us that? DUMB.

Holly and Harley? Why are they even still in this book? And Jimmy too? And Karate Kid?

Ray Palmer? Hey Ray, you have many reasons to be sad given your recent history—but guess what? We’re killing ALL OF YOUR FRIENDS NOW.

Countdown is pure farce. Its probably the worst crossover in DC history. It makes Millenium looks like Watchman. It makes Armaggedeon 2001 look like Citizen Kane. Its 52 pages of getting eight or so characters from Point A to Point B with no character development, no Points A.1 or A.2, no real reason for any of these characters to be used other than Dan Didio saying “Dude, why don’t why use freakin’ Jimmy Olsen. Why? Cuz it’ll be awesome.” Its 52 issues of one large fight. 52 issues of here’s the multiverse: check out how freaking crazy it is when we destroy two Earths you didn’t realize existed two years ago and certainly don’t give a crap about now.

Countdown makes me want to reanimate Dr. Frederic Wertham and say to him: “you were right. Comics did rot my brain.” I want to go before HUAC in 1950 and say “I’m sorry but you must destroy the comic book industry, because I’m afraid by 2008 there will be a series so terrible that it threatens to destroy all credibility in comic books.”

Countdown is like the Brothers Karamazov in that, just like Dostoevsky offers the best argument that there is no God, Countdown provides the ultimate explanation that there is not creative integrity in comic books. Oh, but without all that literary genius baggage.

Countdown is a test. A test put forward by DC asking fans how much they really care about this hobby they love. Would you still read comics if we gave you a year long book 100% dictated by marketing with no real plot and no real theme, with no real literary reason for its existence? Would you still read about characters that do not move you to feel one emotion and only pose from panel to panel between fight scenes?

Countdown makes me feel like its Crisis #11, in the opening sequences, only instead of the heroes in the DCU, it’s the fans in the real world, who are suddenly aware that DC has changed so greatly that its unrecognizable. Like in Crisis #11, Earth now exists in the Anti-Matter universe—because DC (the company *and* the universe) now are some anti-matter version of itself, entropy coming from all angles destroying every part of the DC I thought I once knew. Continuity dies immediately, similar to Earth-3, but soon character development, pacing, story and literary themes are next. Eventually, the legendary franchises are beaten into an inch of their lives, like Supergirl by the Anti-Monitor, and we the fans, like Superman, are left holding our memories of those franchises crying to ourselves and wondering what the hell happened? A last, the integrity of the company itself, realizing the company no longer has any use for it at all, decides to sacrifice itself like Superman of Earth-2, leaving this post-modern Dan Didio DC that assuredly hates its fans or simply wants to abuse them for its own insidious, perverted pleasures.

In other words, I’m not really enjoying Countdown.

Strong and funny words from CK... a rant I can get behind. I keep reading this thing, but I'm not enjoying it too much. I really hoped it would come together as the end approached, and it kinda has... but not in a good way.

The only good thing I can say about the latest issue is that Harley had a line of dialogue that cracked me up... I don't remember what it was... it totally took me out of the story, but it was the most enjoyable thing about the experience of reading the latest issue.

Well, I felt that after the culmination between Monarch and Superboy Prime - which I really liked - this new cumination on Apokolips felt somehow forced. I had a one months break in reading between issues ## 12 and 11, and there I was - and I did not remember how one single of all these heroes actually GOT to Apokolips in the beginning!!! I totally forgot - if it ever was told, I borrowed my copies of 15-12 away so I cannot look it up - how this "climax" came to pass...

Not a good sign for the story.

But: I have to mention a major PLUS for the DC creators: Piper piping a passage of "Show must go on" by my alltime favorite band Queen and the immortal Freddie Mercury to blow up the Brother Eye - that was classy, and it made up for lots of plotholes in my book

But that's only me

Question is: How in god's name did this Piper guy get so powerful that he actually is the target of Desaad and can in the end do what he does - blow up OMAC? Has this ever been planted - or is it just the usual Deus ex machina solution?

Never having read any Flash stuff, those Piper/Trickster guys - and especially their powers - are leaving me full of questions...

By the way, great post by Cobalt Kid. I am not totally sharing his feeling, but in many points, dude, you're sooooo right... the Darkseid chess part especially...

Maybe I'm aching my brain to much about the sense in this convoluted story... maybe it's really just crap

Piper took down Neron in one of those summer blockbusters. Not sure if he got any special powers in the deal but as a character, his importance was ramped up. He's kind of DC's version of Han Solo. No special powers but luck of the Irish.

Apparently K-Kid's dead, but I wouldn't mourn him yet.

The company of the book, minus Piper, wind up on a world that's just like their home Earth, except for the fact that it's lacking their own counterparts. Convenient, that, eh?

With the exception of the magic-based Earth and Earth 3, I've found all the Earths fairly unimaginative.

Therefore, the threat of the now giant-sized morticoccus (or whatever) ravaging yet another Justice League dominated Earth uninteresting.

It *is* kind of interesting that it's the fact that KKid is a time traveller from the future that led to the contagion and made it more dangerous.

It seems to be taking forever for this to wind up. Same with SECRET INVASION at Marvel to *start*.

I thought KK's death was bad-- poor Lu receives possibly the most wretched death of any superhero ever.

Gnawed to death by evolving rats. At least she acted heroically, giving her flight ring to 'civilians' to escape.

Plotwise, Lu died for the 'overwhelming' revelation that Buddy's grandson is the last boy on an Earth now inhabited by animalized humans and evolved animals. Great Disaster and Command D.

I doubt Jack Kirby would ever have sanctioned that the origin of one of his creations depended on a decades-old superheroine being gnawed to death by rats.


This has turned into one dispiriting series.

check this out from Newsrama re: the fates of Karate Kid, Una (hmm?) and the future of Legion -

http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=151745

All I Can say is that its almost over.

This makes Millenium seem like Homer's Illiad.

TOtally sig-worthy.

It's all been worth it to see Countdown compared to The Brothers Karamazov.

I BOUGHT the Brothers Karamazov. I READ the Brothers Karamazov (the whole thing). I DISCUSSED the Brothers Karamazov in my book club. And let me tell you, Countdown, you are NO Brothers Karamazov.

Seriously, I am so glad I dumped this back before the halfway mark. Really, absolutely nothing has happened. Nothing. So what if one of 52 earths turns out to be Earth Kamandi from Kirby's series more than a generation ago. So what? You could have done that with a one-shot. All the running around added absolutely nothing to the final result. That's WHY we HAVE alternate earths, for jeebus sake! NOW, if the story were about Brainiac 5 DIVERTING the Great Disaster to another earth to preserve his future, THAT would have a good story.

If it had been Brainiac 5 playing chess with Darkseid, that MIGHT have been worth reading.

Or, if the Great Disaster WAS hanging over New Earth like the sword of Damocles, and Final Crisis was about determining WHICH future New Earth would pursue, THAT could have been an OK story, too. (Kind of like what Busiek has done in Superman with Khyber).

Well, I have to say that Countdown # 2 surprised me pleasantly. It was a logical way to conclude the Darkseid-Death of New Gods plot, yet completely unexpected, and well-executed.

I guess that means that issue # 1 is mop-up, as well as the clear lead-in to Final Crisis. Most likely Solomon the Monitor reveals that he was behing the Orion thing, and with Darkseid out of the way, becomes the focal point for the creation of the "Fifth World."

I'm interested in seeing how Orion's presence is going to be explained. He did, after all, get killed one or two issues ago in "Death of the New Gods," didn't he?

Glad I checked out at the mid point with only about $80 and 5 hours invested in the series. I've never said this about anything you've written before, Des : The comparison of fans reading Countdown the characters in Crisis #11 was brilliant.

Thanks Lad Boy! You rock and just made my morning!

The horrors of Countdown have at least inspired me to make a few decent posts here and there

Brian Hibbs on Countdown: http://savagecritic.com/2008/04/count-this.html

Definite thumbs down there

He's right on in regards to how the success of 52 (and its great ending) have been basically kicked into the gutter by Countdown and Countdown's lame use of the multiverse.

What hurts the most, which Hibbs mentions, is the utter craptacular use of Jack Kirby's various franchises--including their being re-written and as Hibb's says "Shat upon".

If Countdown was a sentient being I'd punch it in the face.

yeah, Countdown was bad. You know, when people talk Millenium and Zero Hour and all those other events, I will have the first one I followed (although I stopped buying early on). Countdown, most ill-concieved/executed thing I've read. Like seriously, this makes Maximum Carnage look good.

The storylines and characters are a complete mess, they never gave a decent reason why Mary Marvel went bad to begin with, but when it looked like they were at least going to do something positive with that bad story point, they made her evil again for even LESS convincing reason than before. Bad, DC, just bad.

The challengers, talk about ineffective. Donna Troy and Kyle Rayner fans should rejoice that these characters will at least appear in other books (Donna will revert to big sister Donna in Titans and Kyle will be just as the GL writers want him to be) and can ignore Countdown ever happened, in fact, I think that is what DC wants to do, forget it ever happened (except where Mary is concerned, because underage evil girls in black spandex is a must have *gags*).

The thing is a mess, I can't even see WHERE a good story was supposed to exist. I mean, its not like they had a good idea and then writer a or b dropped the ball, the entire thing is one anticlimatic poor characterization mess.

I do wonder at what point did the creators realize that they were putting out dreck because they surely did not think they were putting out a good product towards the end. They had to have realized that Countdown was going to end poorly.

And yeah, I'ld punch it, kick it (where it hurts too) and throw stuff at it if it were a sentient being.

I feel like getting a rolled up paper and whacking DC on the nose, bad DS, bad.

I don't hate it as much as some of you but I agree...why? It had some of my favorite characters and it didnt' do anything for me. And "why" is to sell more comics.

So Donna, Ray, Kyle and the Bug Girl the DC Exiles/Challengers? Why?

WORST.

SERIES.

EVER.