Legion World Forums LEGION COMPANION Dr. Gym'll's Cultural Rarities Marvel's X-verse

Bad news -- X-Men Forever Giant Size #1 turned out to be a case of the old saying, "Let the buyer beware."

Don't make the same mistake I did by buying this sight unseen. ESPECIALLY if you're a Mike Grell fan -- his inking has gotten murky and he seems to have completely forgotten everything he ever knew about creating good sequential art.

And, oh yeah, Claremont's story was crap, but that was pretty much a given.

I suspected as much. I'm still getting New Mutants Forever, though. The things I do for Dani.

I know what you mean, Arachne. I'll probably at least Byrne-steal New Mutants Forever for the same reason as you.

Well crud, he was one of my favorites! (Him, Dust, X-23 and Elixir. Santos and Miss Mercury could die in a fire for all I cared.)

A girlfriend with cyborg arms? Huh. Wasn't he dating some combination of Wind Dancer, X-23 and one or more of the Stepford Cuckoos? Oy, that boy gets around.

I just know about a love triangle between him and x-23 and surge (not jolt) i.e.: cyborg arms.


@ Fanfic Lass - I picked up the X-Men forever issue at the store, flipped through it, and put it back, i actually almost bought it for the second reprint story, even though i already have it cause that era was sooo good.

is elixir still around? he hasn't been seen in the carnage of the recent x-crossover.

So we've had the penultimate issue of a 3 month cross over, and this topic is on page 5?

Marvel, you might want to keep your cross overs smaller. This really was an X-Force/X-Men story, with the New Mutants and Legacy only tangentially involved.

So the latest issue of X-Force brings with it another death, this one not so surprising or traumatic. And I actually liked the character.

Hope looks like she is ready to come into her own, but somehow I doubt we'll get a real explanation of who she is/her background/role. Her interactions with Rogue during this story have made me hope she ends up in that book instead of the main title.

latest uncanny x-men.

man am i tired of emma frost and cyclops and their sleezy back door deals.

i was so hoping that with kurt dead and storm lecturing wolverine and even kitty back somewhat, and this bloody crossover was over....

a heroic x-men might be in the works. but no, yet more cyclops / emma frost melodrama.

I don't care that she has sebastion shaw in a basement and i don't see why anyone else would either! in fact, it's probably one of the only things she's done that is not morally questionable. but ... how can this not end with yet another secret exposed and Shaw attempting to rip apart the island?

p.s.

<span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">i really liked cable too. </span></span>

I just dropped Uncanny. I just don't give a damn about the characters Fraction insists on focusing on.

I've also now stopped reading it. In fact, I've decided that for the first time ever, I'm taking a leave of absence from reading the main X-titles.

I dropped X-Men: Legacy, after staying on for at least a year longer than I should have. It's just been awful.

Uncanny X-Men has never been this boring ever before. Fraction went from 'okay' to 'mediocre' to 'ugh'.

I tried out the new X-Men title too with the incredibly lame premise "mutants vs. vampires". It's terrible. So terrible in fact, that I won't be getting #2.

I have to say, in my opinion right now is the single worst era EVER in X-history. That includes Claremont's Australian Outback era, the mid-90's/Onslought Era, the "ruination of the cool 'The Twelve' subplot Era", the second Claremont era and even the last decade. This is just awful. Never have the X-books been so plain boring.

The X-comics get a bad rap for the era in which they were selling millions of copies. But I reread those stories last year and you know what? They were EXCITING. They still are. There is absolutely no excitement in the X-books these days. They could kill every character right now and I'd feel nothing. It's time to start fresh.

Is it as bad as Teen Titans right now?

No. Not even close.

Me and a couple of friends were discussing this recently, and came to the conclusion that the X-books have managed to get *so very far* away from where they need to be, that the *only* workable means to get to a viable status quo is to take a several-month jump and pick up in mid-story. The sheer volume of crap that needs excavated makes it impossible to craft a satisying "here to there" story (I suggested using an AoA-style alternate reality event to bridge the gap, taking the "normal" X-books out of play for a solicit cycle of 3-4 months).

One of them even went further and said the restored X-books need cut down to just Uncanny & Wolverine (although later he made an exception for X-Factor, semi-divorced as it is, provided the divorce became official and it was reclassified as general MU) and nothing else. (I added X-Force and another X-Men book, as well as X-Factor, to the list on the basis that five books was about the minimum Marvel might countenance, especially with the ban on X-minis and one-shots I agreed was needed)

I agree on both counts. A jump because who really wants to read them resolve this crappy set-up. And def agree on cutting the books. I'd say Uncanny as the lead and launch a 2nd title (which should have been "X-Men" but they just screwed that up). Then maybe get to X-Force in a year.

I think X-Factor *and* Wolverine should just be full-on divorced from the XU (Wolverine the title--let's face it, he's a regular Marvel character and will always stay that way now).

Them they should try to restore some of their other great "stars" like Gambit and Cable who once had popularity levels close to Wolverine but are now on par with Hawkeye.

Them there's the question about what is to be done to the really dumb marriage of Storm and the Panther? No Mephisto please but perhaps a royal annulment.

The only X-books I'm still following are Astonishing and Astonishing: Exogenesis(?) ... I dropped X-Factor when they pulled the change in numbering crap... (same reason I dropped Cap...)

I'd be for the changes Reboot suggested as long as Moonstar's featured prominently somewhere. Not necessarily in an X-title.

The X-Books I buy are...

X-Men
New Mutants
New Mutants Forever
Ultimate X

i think i'm dropping everything except that which is drawn by Greg Land.

At the end of the Second Coming story line i thought there would be changes cause they had a great concluding issue about how everyone was crazy. and had come so far from the original mission. then the last spread is wolvie's new even more kick ass xforce kill squad. wtf.

now, i'm hoping storm nukes that frickin island.

I never collected X-Force in it's heyday, even though last year I was able to grab all the original Liefield issues for bargain prices (I did so for (2) reasons: because I was rereading all the X-titles during that period and because I couldn't pass up an opportunity considering X-Force #1 used to cost an arm and a leg in 1993). I definitely have not collected it in recent years during it's last relaunch.

But the name Rick Remender, a writer whose shown he's got some real chops, made me curious, and so I grabbed Uncanny X-Force #1, the most recent relaunch of the title. It was a buy that could only happen on a whim. And you know, it was actually pretty good! Certainly better than Uncanny X-Men or other main X-titles have been in years (but that isn't saying much).

X-Force now serves the role of being the black-ops type team in X-Land. I liked the original premise better, of the New Mutants growing up and striking out on their own under the tutelage of Cable, but it is what it is. What I really liked was that this 'black ops X-Men' team didn't have 100 members; rather, it had a brief 5 person roster where each character has a chance to shine and interact with one another. It stars Wolverine (naturally), Archangel, Psylocke, Deadpool and Fantomax. The smaller roster made the team dynamic within a single issue feel actually very similar to how the Byrne/Claremont X-Men used to feel when it was only 5-6 of them. A smaller scale feel can a long ways.

Now, Wolverine and Deadpool's inclusion is more annoying than anything. Not so much Logan, who works here (but is just everywhere so becomes repetitive and annoying) but Deadpool doesn't really seem to fit. Maybe he'll get phased out after the first story if his presence was meant to draw fans.

However, I thought both Warren and Betsy were the best they've been portrayed in probably over 15 years. They were interesting, had lots of subplots and conflicting motivations and yet were securely themselves. It's about damn time someone cared about them again! I also have liked Fantomax since Morrison introduced him and would like to see more of him.

The major plotline focuses on Apocalypse, making things come full-circle, but Apocalypse has always been one of my favorite 'newer' villain (re: post 1980).

Will I buy issue #2? Normally I would say no immediately because I've recently been cutting my X-titles and have never been interested in X-Force. But this was a pretty solid first issue. It will probably be a decision I make in the store but I'm leaning more towards yes.

Picked up Uncanny X-Force 1 and 2 today (good art can get me to purchase things ... might be in for one more)

and picked up Uncanny X-Men 530 ..........

If only you could see the expression on my face. Little did I know I was in for one of the most awkward racial experiences reading a comic.

LONG STORY SHORT: the Collective Man goes around bullying Chinese-American people involved in organized crime in San Francisco. He seems to be speaking Mandarin Chinese and they seem to be speaking it back to him. (I assume cause he's the Collective Man from China, who prides himself on being a good citizen, so he must be speaking the official language --- Mandarin) Also he's from Wuhan which was promoted as the standard of the official Chinese language of Mandarin.

which is odd cause most people in SF speak cantonese. What else is weird is that they probably have fled China 50 years ago during the cultural revolution and have no cultural connection to communism ..... and this crazy Collective Man comes around saying they've been bad little communists. Some of the people he's harassing don't even look 50 years old. (but who knows maybe there IS some sort of recent invasion of Chinese nationals involved in organized crime in SF ... who speak Mandarin --> it's a comic book?? )


My favorite part though: the Collective Man as he bashes up a old man:

<Letting a Gweilo transform you into running dog capitalists.>

ok so Gweilo is a marginally derogatory term in Cantonese, so i guess < > means the Collective Man has been speaking Mandarin or else why is gweilo untranslated ... but there are plenty of words in Mandarin that mean what Gweilo means in Cantonese. Why the switch of languages ?

bizarre. or is he supposed to be speaking cantonese and the writer just threw that in so he'd be cool by knowing an offensive term in Cantonese?

don't get it. I'm sure the old man who's getting his ass handed to him is even more confused as some crazy communist has come to trash his store. yelling at him in a language he may or may not reasonably speak.

it's almost funny, it's like if someone from mexico came and trashed my house and yelled at me in Spanish for not being a good Mexican citizen. hahahaha (no actually i think that would make more sense cause i might understand what he is screaming while he choked me)


anyway, the collective man gets the remaining crime lords to do a fist pump to communism .... even though some of them look young enough to have never lived in China.

I don't know, seemed very odd to me.

Lastly Greg Land, love his work, but he's starting to give all the woman puppy dog expressions with their mouths open. or they're shouty or something. (and there is a panel where emma frost is moving her cape aside so you can get a big shot of her butt .... and that's all <no upper calves, no middle back> the view is big butt emma frost as she faces Sebastian Shaw)

oh btw more LYING from Emma Frost to Scott.


I really hope kids aren't learning anything from these comics.

Ugh. Glad I stopped reading Uncanny.

In the Iron Man thread I reviewed Fractions Iron Man annual, offensive in it's own way. I voted that worst comic book I read in 2010.

After enjoying Uncanny X-Force #1, I picked up #2 and enjoyed it thoroughly. It's by far the best X-book on the market even though that isn't saying much (X-Factor being the only competition and that hasn't been stellar).

It's a tightly told story with fantastic art and a small unit of characters that each get a chance to shine.

Just when I thought the mainstream X-Books were at their historical bottom in quality, I'm glad at least one solid comic book is out there.

In terms of the X-Verse, one of my hopes for the New Year is a Generation X Forever series.

Slightly interested in the 'Age of X'

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=29367

especially since olivier coipel seems to be throwing down some awesomeness.

Astonishing X-Men XENOGENESIS #4 of 5.

Warren Ellis and Kaare Andrews


possible SPOILERS below. but nothing major.


this story arc is ensconced in the Captain Britain universe created by Chris Claremont (methinks) from the Jaspers warp storyline from the late 80s. so that starts off as a plus with me. We've got Doc Croc. and a big surprise with this issue ... an army of furies. (cyborg superhuman killers)


In the original Captain Britain stories ONE of these cyborgs wiped out Captain UK's world of heroes (an alternate dimension version of our Captain Britain) and did a good job of taking out our Captain Britain and our 616 world (actually it did kill him but Merlin brought CB back to life) The Fury actually does defeat our James Jaspers. (if i remember correctly) then Captain Britain and Captain UK team up to put the smack down on a weak Fury.


anyhow, back to the present we've got Doc Croc not really an ally of our X-Team and James Braddock (also a reality warping uber mutant) running around somewhere. and a bunch of 'warpies' these babies are baby mutants who in the past (the 80s) had abilities because of being near reality warping events (correct me if i'm wrong) and were last seen in the care of Moira Mactaggert on Muir Isle. (who's now dead ... moving on)


so we've got new warpies in africa and a host of old Captain Britain characters and Storm, Cyclops, Beast, hisako, and Wolvie on the scene to figure out what's going on with the warpies.


issue 4:

Our X-Team faces cyborgs. lot's of textless action especially with Beast and Wolvie looking cool.

The art is definitely stylized. I like it very much but it's like a cross between Manga and Frank Quietly. (just to warn you)

then one of the cyborgs gets pissed and starts looking very Fury esque for those in the know ... slices Wolvie up like a pro for like 4 pages. Beast gets shot. Wolvie almost lose his head (graphic stuff kids)

Then Storm Cyke and Doc Croc show up to lazer the cyborgs down. Emma is back at the ranch trying to use her powers to get to the bottom of things. (she looks like an anime hooker btw)

The cyborgs repair and start to look bigger and better and more like Furies.

Team X throws more stuff at the Furies to no avail. Dr. Croc says he read a report about something like this .... basically informs the reader that these are realted to the Fury and James Jaspers. It's pictoral so you still need to have read the 80s comics at this point.

Emma has a guy whom she learns is from another dimension, she uses her powers and sees a blood red world and an army of Furies. guy tells Emma 'All your friends are dead already'.

The whole book is more about suspense and graphics to drop the bomb that there is an army of Furies invading our world ... when back in the 80s it was next to impossible to take down one. <actually there is very little allusion to the previous Captain Britain stories but the book reads much better if you have read them and realize how deadly the Furies are>

Hisako has four panels of impending death at the hands of a Fury .... turn the page .... and a Wolvie that looks like hamburger meat has healed enough to have a big red splash page of claws and Fury spine.

There's really very little text but the graphics (almost) carry the weight of a good story.

Emma tells Cyke the guy she's mind reading is a living Ghost Box (a nod to a previous Astonishing X story arc ... Ghost Boxes are teleportation devices ... that have been dramatized but at the moment I can't think of why they're so ominous)

anyway this living Ghost Box's 'very arrival here threw off enough radiation to mutate all these babies in the womb'

It's nice to have these references back to the original Captain Britain story. the warpies having a similar origin ... a lot of writers stories today don't even make sense on their own much less reference decades old stories.

so it seems the Furies came after this teleporter but if he jumps away it's going to dose everyone with radiation. sets our X-Team up for a lose lose. (i think even if he did maybe the Furies would still wanna stay and kill all our super heroes anyways .... idk)

so cyke has a plan. storm flies off with wolvie. last page is a Fury blasting Storm and Wolvie and a big 'AHHHHHHHH'


ok so ........................................................................

PROS: good art, suspenseful story telling, lots of tension and action, great references to probably the greatest Captain Britain story line.

CONS: very little dialogue, stylized art, and the books read WAY better if you've read the original stories way back when.

In a sense, here's how I see things...

The X-Teens of the 80s were the New Mutants, the 90s was Generation X, the 2000s was New X-Men: Academy X, and the 2010s is going to be Generation Hope.

I'm into all 4 of them, but currently the ones I'm most interested in are Generation X and Generation Hope. I just bought Generation X Classic at B&N, and I've already mentioned I hope for a Gen X Forever miniseries. I have to applaud Scott Lobdell's and Chris Bachalo's art in the first half, giving that there were four boys on the team (not counting Banshee), and only one of them would be considered aesthetically pleasing. The one I mean is Synch. Skin was ugly, Chamber was missing the lower half of his face and most of his chest, and Mondo was fat.

As I understand, Lobdell intended that there wasn't supposed to be an actual Monet St. Croix, in that M was really Nicole and Claudette St. Croix, the sisters of the REAL Monet. However, in M's debut issue, it was mentioned that "the twins" were missing. However, since the twins were masquerading as Monet, this would imply that there really WAS a Monet St. Croix. So, what were Lobdell's original plans had been concerning the missing Monet once her sisters true identities were revealed?