Legion World Forums LEGION COMPANION Dr. Gym'll's Cultural Rarities J.L.I. Generation Lost

Retconning Ice's origin so that she's a gypsy? But if she wasn't a goddess, how could she have returned from the dead (Nekron notwithstanding)?

judd Winick likes to play god....never liked his writing at all. too much origin conflicts. Ice has a brother named Ewald...so what happened to him, if the origin is changed? What Sigrid Nansen? that was pretty stupid of Judd to go change somebody's origin! i am not happy at all.

^ That is one of my (many) big problems with Judd Winick's writing too. He just seems to have zero care for the histories/personalities of the characters he writes. Like a square peg into a round hole he just mashes them into whatever role he wants them to fill in his stories and does whatever he wants with their back-stories, even if it completely contradicts previous stories.

He also almost never leaves a DC character in better shape than when he found them. He's so determined to put his definitive mark on a character that they're often pretty much ruined until a later writer can revert the damage he's done to them. Just look at the Marvel Family!

I've said it before and I'll say it again - Judd Winick should not be writing in a shared universe like the DCU. Everyone says how great his Barry Ween and Exiles were. Notice something similar about them? They were his own characters in their own universe so it didn't matter if he went crazy with them.

Yeah, the Ice issue didn't hold up... we've all SEEN her origin, it was a multi-issue storyline. Yeeesh. Whatever, I'm just glad she's not dead anymore.

Captain Atom in a bleak future, it was fine and all, but we've already covered this ground.

I'm still onboard but this is one lOOOOng storyline. I've already dropped BRIGHTEST DAY, I hope this doesn't lose my attention.

flipped through it at the store.

was that Super Girl or Power Girl. cause Power Girl would make more sense but she had the big fat S on her chest?

I'm waiting for a tpb or hardcover. something that includes all those beautifully painted covers.

Could someone scan the page from last issue with the future JLA?

No...but,

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_bdQdS-kzy...TMhQ/s1600/JL+Generation+Lost+future.jpg

There ya go.

Okay, now THAT is a Black Canary I like.

Gen Lost continues to defy my expectations of what to expect from a Judd Winick-written book and for what would seem like an inflated 26-issue count for what boils down to a basic plot of JLI vs. Maxwell Lord.

We're past the halfway point (just read 15, but not 16 yet), and I'm still enjoying it. Winick's broken up the monotony with a lot of startling developments. This issue introduces some complications with what's going on in Wonder Woman's book. Only four JLIers and Max Lord remember her. Considering the role Diana played in Max's story, I'm intrigued to see how this plays out. I hope it's not just a throwaway bit to explain how she won't appear in this story. I hope it pays off in other ways.

The twist with Magog a coupla issues ago nad how Max has used it to put the Leaguers into a deeper hole is pretty impressive, as was Captain Atom's latest time jump.

Most of all, I loved Booster's exchange with Atom this issue and especially how it resolved. It resonated really nicely with what was an excellent issue of Booster's own title that I had just read the day before (and will review tonight). You think the conversation will end one way, and then--BAM! Really nice.

My only concern with Gen Lost is how solicitations seem to be spoiling the death of a certain character. Hopefully, all that pre-hype is a red herring. Judd, let's not ruin a terrific series with needless bloodshed. (I doubt anyone's mourning the guy who died a coupla issues ago! )

Lardy's rating for JL: Gen Lost #15: 3 donuts! (out of 5)

I just read 15-16 a bit ago.

26 issues this will run, then? I'm pleased to know the number of issues for some reason.

What can I say, really? JL: GEN LOST continues to keep me interested enough to keep buying the next issue, and isn't that what it should do?

I still am not fully onboard with Ice's revised origin (and what about her brother and all that we saw as Ice gods??) but everything else just keeps clicking along.

I'm still onboard with the series itself and that is what really matters.

So not gonna be happy if the last page of issue 20 pans out...but somehow I think there is a mulligan in here somewhere...somehow.

Still liking the series well enough. Only 6 issues to go at this point...so I can stick it out.

JL GEN LOST # 21 kicked all KINDS of ass!!!

All right ... Folks. I started this thread and dropped the series after issue number 1!!

Now I'm back because I was able to get all 24 in the cheapo back issue bin.


I've made it to #18 ... and I have to say .... I really really like it!!

I actually bought them for the beautiful covers but, i have to say the story has hooked me. I DO prefer the Dagnino drawn issues over the others.

Broad Things On Issue 2 to 18:

Booster evolving as a leader. It's totally believable that the murder of his best friend would sober him up.

Hell, everyone evolving, Amidst all the funny of the JLI stories it's easy to forget that Fire is an awesome secret agent and Captain Atom is a military officer.

In the fist few issues you kind of have to suspend your disbelief that they are the only ones that know Max is alive and evil, and that Wonder Woman killed him, and his whole existence has been erased and replaced with similar events. I find it hard to believe someone like Oracle wouldn't be able to find out through indirect means or some super magician like Zatanna would be fooled. Or the other telepaths like Martian Manhunter. But the book does an ok job of glossing over that ... one bit I liked is that everyone gets angry and suspicious when you try to make them remember Max.

The new Rocket Red is an hilarious addition, that i was ready to dislike since he seemed so much like my beloved Dimitri from the old days. Also, I liked the addition of the new Blue Beetle, I think they could have done more with the Booster and new Beetle relationship though. (I'm only on issue 18 though)

I think that the broadest plot of Max playing around with this team could have been broken up with some actual super heroic adventures between some max issues. 24 issues is a long time for the intense Max on JLI drama.

i'm pretty conflicted about Ice's new personality, I think this team could use a hopeful person like she used to be but, like she's says 'I died' ... I guess that affects some super heros.

I hate hate hate her new origin though. I'm just going to ignore it. I don't think a traumatic and corrupted origin makes her in any way more interesting or believable than her being an Ice Goddess.

I give that issue a big 'FU' and some double barreled finger gestures to Issue #12!

Captain Atom gets some highlighting in these books as he seems to get the short end of the stick of Max's many short sticks .... like being blamed for an explosion that killed 1000 peeps. I liked his breakaway issue to the future where he meets an old Kara.

I think its weird he jumps into the future when he absorbs too much energy but, it really served the plots of the book enormously (in each of these Max brings about the end of the world). I especially liked when he meets the future Justice League. and Kara is wearing an S!

The dialogue of these issues could be much better, for example, i found it cheesy when Booster was making (many) his leadership speaks to Captain Atom, saying he couldn't kill him because they were going to bring im to justice and expose him to everyone.

The Wonder Woman issues where no one remembers her are cute, it seems reasonable that Max would have a big 'hate on' for her.

With the Blue Beetle flash backs ... I couldn't tell is Jaime had an abusive upbringing or not ??

I thought it was dorky to have Fire get all shot up in issue #15 when in issue #16 there is a creature commando with a healing power.

Power Girl's also drawn with some pants in issue #16!!


I couldn't wait for the introduction of Kara (it's really too bad at this time she was working with Dick Batman and not Bruce Batman ... or even Martian Manhunter) They built her up quite a lot ... especially when they were fighting her .... 'she's one of the strongest people on earth' 'fastest too' etc. etc.

And so when she joins the team in issue #18 I thought things were really going to pick up ! Watch out Max Power Girl can search the earth in minutes!!! And she can hand however many OMACs you got their butts.

BUT NO!!!! In issue 19 she goes off to tell the Justice League and the JSA the truth! And it dosn't look like she's coming back anytime soon.

Shame on Winnick for a weak sauce way of getting rid of Kara. It seems like the story is set in stone, and when magic happens, the writer gets rid of it, awkwardly, in favor of the overall plot.


Overall:

Great in plot.

Dagnino's art is awesome.

Love seeing the gang as capable.

Dialogue is not so great. confusing even at times.

Beautiful covers!

The writing is a slave to the overall plot of Max vs. JLI and these 'underdogs' vs. the world rather than evolving organically.

The all JLI on Max stories fatigue me after a while. I'd like some day in the life or super hero stories interspersed.

This series strikes me as a bit odd, as if it's a young new talented writers first attempt at a great story, as the plots and premise seem great but the dialogue clunky and even confusing and the story with a labored break neck pace rather than leisurely embellished. I don't want to kick Winnick needlessly but I wonder if we have Giffen to thank for the great plots and Winnick to thank for the execution ? Maybe that's unfair and unknowable ...

and 24 issues in 12 months is a spectacular achievement !

One more thing:

Dear ALL AT DC. Fire is intangible in her fire form, that's way she's different than every other hero that can burst into flames. Please do not show her getting punched or swatted in her fire form anymore!!

Agree with Peebz above. Fire was actually one of the most powerful of the JLI!

While I normally hate character retcons, I found Ice's was done quite well. I didn't even care that it didn't fit in particularly well with her established backstory.

Loved how the team reacted to Jaime's "death" even though they'd only known him a while. Shows how the team bonded during their short time together, and it makes sense - you don't face terrible odds like that without growing close to the people with you.

The new Rocket Red is also a wonderful addition to the team. And loved how Batman, Power Girl and Wonder Woman were brought in towards the end.

I actually liked her origin, since Ice was shown being able to deal with it quite well. But you're right - I would have liked it a lot more if her Ice Goddess origin hadn't been established already!

I also like how Fire, Cap and the others called Ice out on her new personality, and how she responded to them. I do miss how "sweet" she used to be, but... given all that's happened, it's still pretty believable.

Great review of the series, PB! Haven't read it, because there were a lot of lukewarm to bad reviews at the outset, but you did a good job of pointing out the weak and strong points. It certainly sounds like it's worth reading.

And too bad about Ice, really - I kind of liked her being all innocent sweetness, but at least she hasn't done a Mary Marvel.