Legion World Forums LEGION COMPANION Dr. Gym'll's Cultural Rarities Justice League

So, I guess you didn't like the Shazam revamp?

Oh, I meant the Pandora one. Haven't gotten to the Shazam stuff yet.

What did you think of the Shazam story, Sarcasm Kid? I'm torn. Frank did a nice job with the art and I like that they updated the whole concept of an orphan/kid in foster care. Billy's attitude was kind of negative and Sivana was too menacing. It had a darker feel than I had hoped.

I was not able to read the entire thing... but I will say this.

Dr. Sivana should not be hot.

And, I don't think I'm going to agree with this characterization of Billy Batson.

I recall in Underworld Unleashed that Neron's target had always been Captain Marvel, because he was the purest of all the DC heroes. And, that's understandable, because he was a child. Not that I'm saying Billy was instantly perfect. In the Power of Shazam graphic novel, Billy didn't exactly adjust to his new powers with grace.

But out of all the heroes Captain Marvel was consistently seen as a paragon of hope and virtue, even moreso than Superman, but he was a boy given the power of Gods and trusted to use them wisely. I can think of how his appearance in Justice League Unlimited demonstrated this perfectly.

Now I think of all the ways DC utterly dismantled the Marvel Family. After turning Billy into the wizard and Freddie having to earn his place as "Shazam", Mary fell prey to Eclipso and turned towards the dark side. Literally. I'm sure we all remember shaved dominatrix Psycho-Barbie from Final Crisis. Mary was pretty much left to fend for herself since Freddie was off doing his thing and Billy was stuck in the Rock of Eternity.

Then after Final Crisis, Black Adam and Isis went up against Billy and usurped his place in the Rock of Eternity, leaving him powerless. Then Mary, still in her Dark Barbie role, corrupted him. Then the Wizard Shazam was brought back, and acting like a jerk completely blamed Billy and Mary for failing to adhere to the standards he set and completely stripped away their powers. Mary was still quite bitter about this, and Lady Blaze actually tried to tempt her. How many times does this make it Mary has been tempted?

Okay, I'm rambling, so to sum it up, the last we saw of the Marvel Family before Flashpoint had them all powerless and miserable. And Osiris was going to agree to help Dr. Sivana kill them so Black Adam could be brought back. (Not going into what happened with the Black Marvels)

Flashpoint we saw Captain Thunder.

And now, post-Flashpoint, we only have one Marvel Family member. Billy Batson is considered a bad influence. He's a teenager. And now he's going to become "Shazam". Not Captain Marvel. Shazam. He's got a mean and edgy look to him. And from what I've heard, Mary and Freddie won't be the same.

If after all the dark and moody hoopla the Marvel Family endured thanks to Winnick, Johns, and Wallace just acted as a complete and utter turn-off, why would I ever think to support Geoff Johns decision to make the Marvel Family "modern"? I've already become wary of how Geoff Johns utterly takes control of pre-existing characters and just completely rewrites their backstory so that they pretty much become his. The only reason I'm buying Aquaman is because Joe Prado works on it.

The bottom line: I've been coming off as if I want everything light and fluffy. I don't. God knows my "Night of the Gargoyle" idea is anything but.

Dark works for some comics, like Animal Man and Doom Patrol. Dark doesn't work for the Marvel Family. It's like pouring butterscotch on a block of american cheddar.

Yeah. I don't think Johns is right for the Marvel Family.

Amen to that.

I liked the reboot of the Justice League with the exception of adding Cyborg. To me the founders should be DCs iconic characters. To me, that just isn't Cyborg.

I'm curious about reactions to JLI #7. Wow, that got pretty dark pretty fast. Not really sure I'm willing to stick around if this is the way it's going to be.

A death I really dislike, and almost all the women taken off the playing field (appearing to taking them off the team?). The issue felt like the series took a turn towards lamesville.

Goodness knows when I'll be picking up my comics. Can someone spoil me as to what Cobie is referring to?

The Shazam back-up made me a little sick, honestly. Every decision seemed to be one that made me shake my head. A Luthor clone as Dr. Sivana? No. Surly Billy Batson? More representative of how current media portrays teenager, maybe. But also more boring. Then again, perhaps all isn't as it seems.

It isn't that the story as it is is bad. Only when tryng to reconcile it with what went before. Which is exactly my experience with much of the rest of the new DCU.

<span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">JLI is the victim of the bombing, which also kills all the supporting cast Jurgens introduced in 1-6.

Rocket Red dies, which I found extremely annoying.

Fire is in a coma. Ice & Vixen are basically rendered helpless and docile. It was like all the females were quickly taken off the table other than Godiva who has thus far proven to be the least effective of the bunch.

The whole thing felt very weak to me. Knowing you, I suspect you'd also hate it.</span></span>

Oh! You were talking about JLI! I'm afraid I already dropped that one. Just wasn't feeling it.

Double Amen. Why do they have to change everything?

They also went and <span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">introduced a new Bat-related character - as if we didn't have enough! I'd much rather read about Rocket Red, Fire, Ice and Vixen. </span></span>

Read the SHAZAM back up at the local B&N...wow. That sucked massively. It was actually worse than I expected. Which is really saying something.

I get that they wanted to keep Dr. Sivana as a bald, bespectacled villain while being substantially different from his previous incarnation, but surely there are ways to do that without having him look just like a buff Lex Luthor. Or maybe it was just the art?

Anyway, I'm a big fan of the Marvel Family, and was really looking forward to this story. I was a bit disappointed, but I guess overall I was just relieved that the treatment was substantially better than what they did with the Marvels in Flashpoint.

I didn't read the tie-in mini for that, but I thought that what I saw of the concept in the main FP series actually seemed pretty good! Then again, I've never been a huge fan of the Marvel Family.

Anyhoo, this is kinda pointless for me because I've dropped JL from my pull.

I bought Justice League #8. For one reason. And ONLY one reason.

Joe Prado worked on the interiors.

I don't care at all about Geoff Johns and what he's doing. If the money is going to Joe's career, then fine. I just wish it could've been something else this week.

<span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">In the Shazam back-up, Billy Batson made a little girl cry. Billy Batson. Made someone cry.</span></span>

Read JL 3-9 today. That Jim Lee art sure is purdy.

Johns' story, however, did not really click well for me until Jim Lee's hiatus issues... I really started ENJOYING this book entirely rather than just enjoy looking at it with issue 7. 7-9 rocked pretty mighty, and have helped make Steve Trevor someone I care about fo the first time since the 1970s!

The SHAZAM backup... I am thoroughly enjoying it!

Sarc, Billy DID make someone cry, but he soon regrets it.

Here\'s a preview of the upcoming JUSTICE LEAGUE DARK issue with the new members.

I'm pretty excited: BLACK ORCHID's depicted using some sort of disguise tech or power to infiltrate a group connected to Felix Faust (who's definitely seen better days, at least looks-wise).

In the article, Lemire says that she's driving John Constantine crazy by not divulging her origin/identity.

Color me pleased. The one nitpick- her 'wings' appear to be gone (boo!).

RE: Justice League Dark #9

I've been a fan of this book from the first issue. With the addition of Jeff Lemire it just got a hell of lot better. I'm a big Milligan fan, but Lemire is just red hot right now. Like this month's Savage Hawkman, JLD benefitted from some added clarity.

Another big agreement with Jerry from me on JLDark. Lemire has stepped in and the series is suddenly making good on what we were promised. Smart plot, good characterization, quirky as hell and lots of places to go from here.

Constantine shines as written by Lemire. Zatanna 'feels' like herself finally. I'm loving the intros of Dr. Mist and especially Black Orchid. Steve Trevor continues his role as most interesting person in the DCnU, and is used to great effect here.

Another issue like this and it'll confirm for me it's the best Justice League series.

Just caught up on the last three issues of JL:D, plus the Vampire crossovers. With Milligan's (and Shade's) departure, I think I'm done as well. Issue #9 didn't do it for me, as much as I like Black Orchid, this just came across as competent, but not engaging.

I read JL 10-11 last night; the revelations about Cyborg AND Steve Trevor totally threw me and were shocking. I kind-of guessed the Steve Trevor twist but not until about 30 seconds before I actually saw it.

And the DCnU SHAZAM continues to work well for me.

In regards to Black Orchid, last week in Teen Titans it hit me that Solstice's current appearance looks remarkably like the second and third Orchids.

I wonder if maybe there was a reason why this Orchid looks like the first.