Legion World Forums LEGION COMPANION Dr. Gym'll's Cultural Rarities Justice League

picked this one up, (after a boycott) like the new artist ...

i hope somehow nightshade ends up joining the JLA ... and that we get to see more JLA'ers next month.

Dev, the mini was good, even though I don't have the last issue. Tough to mess up Buddy, honestly, but Gerry maintained a great feel with the character. It really did seem you were reading about a real guy that was nearing the end of his career, taking stock, re-evaluating. Take away the superhero elements, and it could have been any story about a guy that was married to the job and in being so lost contact with his family.

Gerry's time in TV has only sharpened his already prodigous skills.

Thanks Rick. I'm going to have to hunt that down then.

Last Days of Animal Man thread.

Oh, Lord- not another turn to the 'dark side' for Obsidian... this is really getting old. I hope he 'snaps to' all on his own and saves the day- though I suspect Jade'll be the star of the show since she's the JLAer and this rendition of the team apparently has to constantly prove itself worthy.

Otherwise, I quite like this storyline thus far.

I think he's good. he rescued them. it's not clear but i think he's good.

Got the DcNu Justice League this morning. Kind of Underwhelming. Bats & GL meet for the first time tracking a Parademon. It blows up, leaving a Mother Box behind. They decide to track down another "known" alien (Superman). Nobody likes or trusts the heroes and they don't like each or trust each other. More infighting on the way next issue.

For an exciting new launch, this was pretty bland.

Against my better judgement, I aquired this issue along with 'Flashpoint #5' just to get a feel for the DCnU. Based on 'Justice League' I won't be buying any of DC's titles (including the Legion material) from here out. This was the worst drivel I have seen in a long time. It was boring, bland and tasteless with a tired, hackneyed plot. What a complete waste of time and money.

I'm a bit torn on the issue. I enjoyed it enough while I was reading it, but at the end it didn't offer me much excitement about the title or DCNu. My expectations may have been too high. The pacing is clearly designed with trades and new readers in mind. The story spent some time setting up the general feel for super heroes five years ago in the DCNu and then put itself on repeat with Batman and Green Lantern trying to rile each other. Not much else to offer except an interlude of Vic's pre-Cyborg days, a "To Be Continued" Parademon/Darkseid tease, and a cliffhanger for a fight I personally don't need to see.

This type of origin story and pacing is understandable as part of a cautiously told backstory for the DCNu, but as THE big first step into this reality I felt underwhelmed. I suppose after months of waiting I'm impatient and don't like that I have to wait four to five more months for essentially an origin story. I'm going to stick around to get the first arc and hope to get more charmed as the story goes.

The art was pretty though.

JUSTICE LEAGUE # 1

I'll state off the bat that Jim Lee knocks the art out of the ballpark and into the stratosphere.

Geoff Johns' story seems a little thin so far. I read this book FAR more quickly than I would have liked, considering it was 24 pages and a higher pricetag.

Some brief breakdowns:

LOVE AND ROCKETS

Looks like Batman can now shoot rockets and shit outta his gloves. Who needs powers, Green Lantern?

THE GANG IS DOWN TO FIGHT, YEAH

I'm a bit scared the gathering-together of the League is going to consist of a bunch of big fight scenes, with them battling each other. Don't care for this much, if so.

BAD SIDE NOT BAD SEED

Looks like we have the definitive pronunciation for Darkseid in this 'verse. Speaking of old Granite-Crotch, I like that he's back already.

SPLISH-SPLASH

The overuse of splashes and oversized panels already has me as nervous as 4 cats in a burlap sack.

SHARP-DRESSED MAN

Superman's new suit isn't so bad, to me. Everyone looked pretty good outfitwise. Kudos to Lee again for that.

I CAN SEE CLEARLY

And clearly, Wonder Woman, Aquaman and Flash were no-shows. This disappointed me.


I BELIEVE THE CHILDREN ARE OUR FUTURE

The story read very much to me like it was being created for a MUCH younger audience. I mean MUCH CONSIDERABLY younger. This makes me uneasy.

SHOULD I STAY OR SHOULD I GO

I will buy JL # 2. If I still feel unease over the overuse of splashes and the oversimplified writing, it will be my final purchase of JL.

There's plenty of other things I can spend $4 on that won't cause me any unease at all, like a beer.

Hm, overwhelmingly the reviews of JL #1 are very 'meh'! Will this bring my expectations down even lower and help me enjoy it?

Sounds like Lee is still amazing while Johns continues his steady decline. Your reviews have me anxious to buy / read / review!

A critique of DC and the JL - 'The Vanguard of the New 52':

DC has been telling us that this reboot is a chance to do NEW NEW NEW and open things up .... but it seems with JL #1 they are doing an origin story yet again.


First of all - The 'NEW' look:

The new art looks like Jim Lee in the 90s. It just does IMO. I heard them speak about the costume designs and wanting them to have unifying elements like high collars. But WHY ? These people don't know each other yet ... Why would an amazon, a kryptonian, and an atlantean have unifying features in their costumes at this point.

I don't think the costumes look that different. As Alan Davis says 'I don't see how underwear or not underwear on the outside makes a character more interesting?"

I think all the lines intended to look like body armor are very dated and messy. Costumes that look like body armor is 30 years old now. (nod to Keith Giffen) Marvel even went a step further in the late 80s saying their clothes WERE body armor without having to look like body armor. That's the future.

The Flash's costume and how it assembles around him and he runs into it ... Marvel's been doing similar things with Iron Man and the Ultimate Universe for a while. Maybe DC too. I don't think it's that important. Seems like they're making a whole lotta deal out of something that's not actually a story.

And how come they got rid of the underwear but not the boots ... like Green Lantern wearing colored boots isn't just as divorced from reality as wearing your underpants on the outside. And skin tight clothes ....

Maybe underwear on the outside and other comic costume conventions is a comic book thing, maybe because it looks cool or more clear in this 2D format.

-----------------------------------------------------
Let's get started on the JL:

Overall .. I don't see much new or fresh in this issue 'The Vanguard of the new 52'

I won't get started on 'diversity'.


Jim Lee seems to have advanced as far as story telling from panel to panel, I think his work since X-Men #1 has become less polished though.

<span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text"> We've got about six pages of Batman chasing after a zombie looking parademon. Green Lantern shows up page 7.</span></span>

In this issue ..... Green Lantern's power effects with the detailed constructions are a little distracting to me, I think they need some explanation because, I don't think Green Lantern is smart enough to imagine every little piece in those constructs and how they go together. So the ring must be making things up from life from GL's suggestions. If the ring's going to make things up just from GL's desires ..... I might prefer a magic djinn approach to constructs. Like big fists .. or things just looking as if they happened from magic instead of bringing the ring down to the mundane world and our time/technology level.


Green Lantern seems to be a d@#K. I'm not sure I would write Hal Jordan this way either ... maybe test pilots are quiet, cool, and solitary ? (maybe he's not a test pilot anymore )

<span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text"> Anyway, this GL has an extraterrestrial bent.

10 pages of Batman and GL being snarky while chasing a parademon shapesifter. </span></span>

Dear DC,
'Sassy' is not necessarily 'Interesting', Mostly it's just 'unlikeable'.
TY, Peebs

<span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text"> Like someone said before, Batman is a normal human, everyone *hates and fears* superheroes. (where have we heard that before ??) (... Including Batman who thinks Superman is dangerous. )

They find what looks like a Mother Box or some Similar New God box.

Cut to a few pages of a healthy and whole Vic Stone ... who's dad may be a scientist focused on super heroes. Vic seems to be set to fill the 'new kid' role for the JLA. (great ... *diversity* yeah thanks. ) I hope we don't have to go through his origin again and see him crippled.

Anyway, Bats and GL go to find Superman, Superman kicks GL's butt ... and says something snarky. He looks young. His costume also has lines all over it. </span></span>


Overall, I think the most disappointing thing for me is that this is yet another origin story. Everybody's gotta remake the wheel poorly. So, I assume that it'll take the 4-6 issues (Conveniently TPB size ... and be called something like 'a new begining' 'the future starts here' 'etc.' )

As far as I'm concerned this is a 'non-issue'. Call me when they actually have a team and have adventures.

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Back to DC, I hope Jim Lee dosn't do for DC what he did for the X-Books in the 90s. Sell the heck out of a few issues and then alienate a lot of long time readers.

I read an article in the New York Times today about the Reboot and Justice League #1. It said that DC was desperate and this was a last ditch attempt to reverse a sales plummet. (especially as DC is always trailing Marvel)

My opinion is that DC's strategy is to copy some of Marvel's strategies (and IMO, quality is suspect when you're not genuine) ... and to pander to the changing culture ... and to the entertainment industry and film potential. I mean sure ... Movies make so much more than comics.

However, It would be nice to see some stories, underwear and all (or not) that didn't pander or beg to other medias or an audience but, that just were of such a great quality ... that they were a *thing* in themselves ... and were accepted, liked, and bought for how awesome they are.

It may be unrealistic to think that comics would gain mass market approval for their hokey underwear on the outside culture but, ...

... since when is selling 50,000 copies a month of one product out of 50 ... bad?

This article touches on some of the same points but is a bit kinder I think:

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=user_review&id=3854

anyone noticed the strange mysterious woman that will appear throughout 52 books? I bet it s the future adult version of XS!

I thought it was XS or some XS-ish person in the lower right corner of this promotional image :

http://www.legionworld.net/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000437;p=1#000007

Wrong one (I think that's the new Titan).

I think superboymddjr is talking about this:

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2011/08/31/52-appearances-of-the-strange-woman-from-flashpoint-5/

I liked Justice League #1. I like the new costume designs. There's nothing I can say that will convince those who don't like them to feel any better about the changes. I find them sleek, appealing, and easy on the eyes.

I'm glad Johns decided to start out with the origin story. I hate trying to fill in the blanks. Most stories have a beginning, middle, and an end. Starting at the beginning seems like the most natural way to do it.

I'm also cool with the fact that not everyone has been introduced yet. No need to rush it. The contrast in personalities and power levels between Batman and Green Lantern was well played. By the end of this story, these very different individuals will be teammates. They will eventually share a fraternity as members of League. Let's see how they get there.

I totally support Cyborg being a founding member. DC is getting a lot of flack for making attempts at diversity. I would be giving them flack if they weren't making these attempts. Vic will hold his own. His place here flows very naturally from the set up in Flashpoint.

Superman's introduction was too brief, but set a good tone. No mopey man in blue here. Fun and powerful. I'm looking forward to seeing more.

I just want to be clear that I am rolling my eyes at what I would call DC's lip service that the reboot will add diversity. When this league is actually less diverse than the previous boot. (IMO so far... Maybe JLI will be more diverse. ) No Vixen, John Stewart, Dr. Light, Black Lightning, etc., and we'll see about Firestorm. I guess the Atom is actually Ryan Choi. I'm all for Cyborg being in the JL and a founder ... I'd rather him not be the 'kid member' or the 'trainee'. I will wait and see though.

Yes, the previous version added members as time went on, as this one will. This will be the first time the Justice League has an African American character as a founder. Of those mentioned, Cyborg is the best choice, in my opinion.

John would have been great - but then people would have said that Hal should have been in instead.

Black Lightning has evolved into a great character but started out with some stereotypical traits -- and was introduced at a time when many black characters had "Black" in their name.

Vixen is also awesome, but less recognizable. Vic has been associated with the League since the 80s Super Friends appearances, and his other television and cartoon work means he is more recognizable to the general public.

I think it's a good call.

After Justice League #1, I'm actually most excited to read about Cyborg of the seven founders. That's something I never thought I would say but am pleased I can! I should have given the issue more credit in my previous review for that. His set-up and the hint with his father is more intriguing to me than the upcoming Superman vs Batman battle and is part of the reason I want to keep reading the storyline.

Cobie, I really enjoyed it. It is important to realize, though, that this not just the origin of the League -- it is the origin of the shared DCnU. If you wanted to see all 14 Leaguers by the end of #1, you will be disappointed. If you enjoy individual characters bouncing off each other with some desultory comic book action exceedingly well conceived and drawn by Johns & Lee, you will enjoy the book. I've heard the approach compared to the first issues of Ultimate Spidey.

I didn't find GL to be too d!@kish AT ALL; he's young, he's the world's best test pilot, and he's just gotten a nigh-omnipotent weapon from a group of immortal aliens who police the entire universe! I loved it! It is a better intro, in a few panels, to who Hal Jordan GL is than the whole movie! If that person was portrayed as diffident, self deprecating and cautious, I would complain of poor characterization. And the ring constructs are the most interesting since GL: Rebirth. The whole POINT of the new JL AND the new origin is to show HOW such very different people, who are each paragons of humanity, but each with different personalities, actually learn to work together. If Johns & Lee tell THAT story convincingly, I think it is worth reading.

There are moments of very good, true humor in it, too, which I won't spoil at all, that remind me of the early JL of Giffen & DeMatteis, before it got all bwahaha. I also think the book echoes the excellent Bruce Timm cartoon in many good ways. The story IS still very decompressed, my only big complaint. But it ends on a note that left me eager for the next ish, and the Vic Stone material is nicely done, a point of view counterbalance to the highly charged Batman / GL meeting.

It also can NOT be stressed often enough that this book is geared as an origin for the whole shared universe and the League, pitched for a brand new reader who is not bored with origins. As an old fart, I have the same weariness with comic book origins. I am reading this as if I had never read one before. Plus, the League never had a good origin. This is the origin for a League from a very different world. The Justice League of America was created at the end of the 1950s as a reboot of the Justice Society, which was created in 1940. The model of those groups was the social club, and later the civilian/military partnership of World War II and the Cold War. Despite relatively diverse (for the era) backgrounds, these heroes saw each other as peers who should get together and swap stories and help the community, like the Elks or the Rotary Club. Later, the unifying spirit of WWII, where all of society mobilized, then the societal struggle of the Cold War, that emphasized the best and the brightest defending the country though science and invention, greatly informed those teams. The original heroes of that JLA were almost all the same in personality--well adjusted, urbane guys with girlfriends and wives, for whom forming the JLA was a natural extension of weekend wienie roasts and cocktail parties.

Needless to say, this is a very different world from that one. We want distinctive, fleshed out personalities in our heroes, which makes for interesting reading, but raises big hurdles for teamwork and organizational development. Also, Johns & Lee seem to want to start with something like our current society--diverse and vibrant, but riven with great fear, anxiety, cynicism, and surprisingly mainstream paranoia and conspiratorial delusions, and try and establish an optimistic, heroic universe in that setting. I think it's way too soon to judge their success in that, but I am encouraged that they WANT to tell a story of how an optimistic, heroic culture could grow out of that soil, rather than changing those heroes into paranoid and cynical anti-heroes, which is how I tend to view what Marvel did with to the Avengers with Ultimates.

I enjoyed the Vic Stone scenes quite a bit, and liked Superman's last minute debut. I don't find Batman and GL relating all that interesting, certainly not something to frame the beginnings of a new DC universe around. In that capacity, I found this a flat failure. The only grandness and scale was in the artistic renderings of GL's ring energies.

I didn't realize that was a parademon till near the end- that was kind of a nice surprise, though I felt stupid for not getting it right away.

Mother Box means New Gods on the way- should I clap or cringe?

All the 'the world hates and fears us' stuff makes me roll my eyes.

This issue did nothing to allay my misgivings about the new DC, with the possible exception of Vic.

My impression is that Johns doesn't want to do grand scale yet, especially because Morrison did it so well, so recently.

Very interesting to get your thoughts, DC! Glad to see a counter-argument being made. More curious than ever to pick up #1 (which I may or may not get around to this weekend).