Legion World Forums LEGION COMPANION Dr. Gym'll's Cultural Rarities Justice League

Wein also wrote:

- The original Libra story

- The JLA/JSA/Freedom Fighters team-up

- Some nice ones involving Red Tornado

- The return of the character who eventually became Sand from JSA

I think I probably read some of those in some of those great reprint digests DC used to publish! Buying those digests alongside current titles being published at the time really helped turn me into the DC fan I am today--especially reading digests of classic Adventure-era LSH alongside some righteous Levitz/Giffen modern classics!

The Big Two are really missing the boat, IMO, not doing that anymore. I mean, Archie digests STILL sell extremely well, dude!

Agreed.

When I got into superheroes in the early 90s, I was all about the cheap back issues of reprints of classics from before my time.

^ So Len was the writer on those JLA 100-Page Spectaculars then. The issues that hooked me on both the JLA and JSA.

Glad I bought LEGACIES. I'm going to read my comics this evening.

Robinson losing his entire line-up almost because of editorial crap before he even got started was a bad omen. That was one thing that was completely not his fault but talk about totally rendering his first year on the title impotent.

Most of them never even got a solid sequence as a JLAer.

When one plans out a story for a character that isn't going to come to fruition in six months, only to discover four months in that the character is being taken away, it can suck, but, *this isn't exactly new.*

The problem is perhaps 75% editorial snatching away of characters before they get used, but also 25% the author taking too damn long to use the character / tell the story.

Decompression is part of the problem, IMO.

If, after six issues, the character was snatched away from you, you still had 150% of the time necessary to have told 'The Eyes of Tara Markov,' and *six times* the amount of time it would take to focus on the character in a 'Who Is Donna Troy?' character development piece.

Instead, the character was shown standing around, or leaping into some fight scenes, because you were 'building up to it.'

Build faster! Ludicrous speed, now!



[I know, I'm being terribly unfair. The Eyes of Tara Markov and Who Is Donna Troy? weren't created in a vacuum and themselves had plenty of set up, but the glacial pace of todays storytelling, and then the creators excuses for why they never came out as good as the creators claim they would have been if not for circumstances beyond their control get a bit old after awhile...]

As ever, when Set and I agree, we agree 100%.

I am SUCH a shameless self-promoter. Comes with growing up an only child, I guess.

I'm in the only child boat too. We get a pass on stuff like this!

Read STARSEARCHERS!!!

Lash,

I will go read Starsearchers now. I've been putting it off way too long.

Ah, two other only children. We should become siblings. and I hope to get another LSH-10 yearas later story up later today.

I love us!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Arial, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Dev Em:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Arial, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by MLLASH:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Arial, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Fanfic Lass:
<strong>

I am SUCH a shameless self-promoter. Comes with growing up an only child, I guess.

Another chapter of 10YL. Squee!

OK so I read JLoA 45. It's the prologue to a JLA/JSA crossover. In the summer. I'm there.

Now comes the bitching:

5 SPLASH PAGES and 1 2-PAGE SPREAD. THAT'S **7** PAGES OF THIS COMIC THAT EQUALS 7 STORY-PANELS.

I'm sorry but as much as I enjoy Bagley's art, this is RIDONKULOUS.

JLA is cut as of # 50. And so is any other book that overuses splash pages. They've tested me. I've failed.

Guys, I’m trying to type together this thing to express how I feel about DC’s current state properly. This isn’t meant to be a venting thread or a rant, but to express my opinion. This is about how I currently feel about the Justice League. It’s about my thoughts on the original line-up, how I first learned about the League, and my favorite and least favorite members.

This is not an “old versus new” thing. This isn’t about my generation against your generation. I don’t care about “my” generation. I consider myself more a child of the 1990s then I ever have considered myself a child of the 2000s, even if I was a child from 1990-2000. It doesn’t make a difference with me because all generations are the same to me.

What comic book characters do I like? Let me list the line-up of the original Justice League and I’ll tell you my thoughts on them:

*Batman: One of my favorite superheroes. No, I’m not going to clarify if I mean Bruce Wayne OR Dick Grayson. Batman.
*Superman: His major storylines tend to end with things going back to normal.
*Wonder Woman: Don’t read enough of her. I should. The most I have read is of her 1960s Mod adventures and a couple of Elseworlds.
*Flash: Barry Allen? The first story I read about him was Crisis on Infinite Earths. I’ll pass.
*Green Lantern: Hal Jordan? I’ll pass.
*Martian Manhunter: Another of my favorites, yet I lack enough stories solely about him and not the League.
*Aquaman: Arthur Curry. He came back from the dead. Am I interested in him? No. Despite the fact that his JLU counterpart was based on his less-liked 90s persona, and his Brave & The Bold counterpart scares me a bit, I honestly prefer THEM to HIM.

And the later additions of the 1960s, based on Wikipedia’s chronology of the roster.

*Green Arrow: Oliver Queen? The only stuff about Robin Hood I know is the Disney movie and that Young Robin Hood cartoon. Even with Neal Adams and Dennis O’Neill’s book, he’s still boring. Pass.
*Atom: Ray Palmer? I feel sorry for him and all the crap he’s gone through. I can respect him being a compassionate superhero, but in all honesty my opinion would be better if they hadn’t killed Ryan Choi. Pass.
*Hawkman: Anger issues. Pass.
*Black Canary: Fishnets and sonic shrieks. Boring. Pass.

My thoughts on the current team-up:

*Batman: Already stated my opinion.
*Congorilla: Have the Vertigo miniseries on my shopping list. I’ll give my opinion after I read it.
*Cyborg: Condescending and boring.
*Donna Troy: I like her, I honestly do. I just feel bad that she’s now on this team as another example of “growing up”. Why does everyone assume that when a person grows up they have to give up ALL the things from their childhood?
*Jade: I used to like her, but that was before they kept her dead for four years, we mourned and moved on, and they brought her back. And I’m still waiting to hear what happened to Nicki Jones from 52.
*Jesse Quick: Why did they spend four years building her up as Liberty Belle to put her back as Jessie Quick? And that outfit!
*Red Tornado: If it’s not Ma Hunkel I’m not interested.
*Starman: The only Starman I’ve ever truly cared about was the second Starman, in the red and yellow costume.
*Supergirl: Pass. My favorite’s Matrix.

I could make a whole rant and list of the ones I find boring, so I’ll just say the ones I do like: Batman, Martian Manhunter, Elongated Man, Zatanna, Animal Man, Ice, Power Girl (NOT in the JLA), Wally West, Kyle Rayner, Tomorrow Woman, Oracle, Hourman, Moon Maiden, Bulleteer, Roy Harper (NOT in the JLA), Donna Troy (NOT in the JLA). By saying “NOT in the JLA” I am saying I honestly prefer the portrayal of those characters when they’re not, or were not, in the JLA. The sad thing is I haven’t really read about some of these characters.

My first thoughts on the JLA came from looking at a couple of issues of Grant Morrison’s run, and the Justice League cartoon. Oh, and some old issues of the Detroit League and Justice League Europe, and the JLAntarctica annual. I started collecting the new Justice League of America at 0, dropped it around the 20s, and then started buying again when they were going to reintroduce the Milestone characters. I dropped this book for good after #43. The JLA books I do have are…

Act of God, Created Equal, JLA/Witchblade, JLA Vol.1-2, Primeval, Secret Society of Super-Heroes, Shogun of Steel, One Million, Age of Wonder, Justice Riders, Destiny, Island of Dr. Moreau, and JLA/Titans, JLI Vol.1, and JLA Secret Files #2.

Destiny and Secret Society are two of my favorites, especially with the use of old Quality Comics characters in Destiny. The Witchblade crossover is one of the oldest books I have, I got it when I was in fifth grade. I think.

I bought JLA Secret Files #2 years ago, and I’ll always cherish the one I have, even if the back and cover fell off, but I bought a new copy. But I’m not getting rid of my old one.

I’ve seen the pilot movie that they created years ago for the JLA, the one with Fire and Ice, but my memories are a bit vague. I have an old issue of Wizard magazine, very old, it’s got tape on it, which was about near the start or midway point of Morrison’s run. Prometheus was in it. And I recall playing that Task Force video game on my Sega Genesis.

I feel ashamed of myself, though, thinking of the money I continued to spend on Justice League: Cry for Justice. Knowing how bad it was and continuing to buy it was pretty much my way of saying I was okay with it. The dialogue, the artwork, Prometheus… blech. I know this is going to sound mean, but I don’t think I can buy anything new written by James Robinson ever again. Golden Age is one of my all-time favorites, and I’m thankful to him for bringing back Matter-Eater Lad, but this book was just so awful and stands for everything that’s wrong with comics today. That and the fact that the last two years of New Krypton books led to nothing doesn’t help my opinion.

They replaced Kyle Rayner with Hal Jordan in the Green Lantern spotlight. It’s somewhat understandable considering how atrocious they dealt with Hal in the 90s. They replaced Barry Allen with Wally West. In all honesty if Barry Allen were still in the ground I wouldn’t mind. They replaced Kendra Sunders with Shiera Hall in Hawkgirl. I’m not a big Hawkman or Hawkgirl fan so I don’t know, but it feels like a waste on Kendra‘s part. They brought back Ronnie Raymond and made him the dominate aspect of Firestorm while Jason Rusch takes a backseat. I may not be a Firestorm fan, but from what I’ve read Raymond’s an idiot. They killed Ryan Choi and are planning to spotlight Ray Palmer. Another waste. Ryan had so much potential only to be killed by the Losers for Hire. Linda Danvers left and was replaced by Kara Zor-El. The original Supergirl’s sacrifice is somewhat tarnished by this new Kara and her personality.

It's going to take a lot to get me back into a Justice League book. VERY much. But I'm willing to wait. I feel as if supporting these books would do more damage than dropping them. Still, I need to keep up with what's going on in these books.

No, no you DON'T actually. There's enough places online to "keep up" with old favorites. As long as you spend money on stuff you honestly can't stand, you're a part of the problem; DC only sees your money and sees it as a tacit acceptance of what they're doing. My two cents.

Oh no! I should've mentioned I stopped buying Justice League, but I've still been reading them to keep up.

I work in a comic shop on Wednesdays when the new stuff comes out. I can read the books I dropped on breaks.

OH, allll right. Cool!

I'm gonna be typing a thing to explain how I feel about Titans in a bit.

To echo Lash, I thought the prelude to the JLA/JSA crossover was a step in the right direction with great interaction between various heroes and beautiful Bagley artwork, but it really suffered from too many splash pages and the feeling like nothing of any note was happening throughout the issue.

The JLA has always had a larger than average portion of 'talking heads' scenarios but I feel like Bagley is not putting his skills to good use here in showing more than just talking heroes. That is utterly boring to me.

Robinson's script feels more light-hearted here and that's a good thing. Maybe the memories of his favorite JLA/JSA stories are bringing out the inner kid in him again. But one thing I don't like him doing is having the heroes talk about 'we're coming together' and instead just get to it already.

I don't understand why people are praising Mark Bagley. I have to say I've seen his artwork and I don't care for it at all.

Bagley's an acquired taste. I, personally, love his art, but I can see where other people might not care for it.

It doesn't help that his first major project for DC was Trinity, where he had to churn out something like 48 pages a month for a whole year. There were glimpses of how good I think he can be, especially in the early issues, but it's not his best work. As for his JLA, I think it's suffered from bad inking.

When he was at Marvel, he turned out plenty of what I thought was good work on New Warriors, Amazing Spider-Man, Thunderbolts, and Ultimate Spider-Man.

As Bags has done more and more on JLA, I feel he's gotten more comfortable with the characters and feel of the book after kind of a rocky start. Honestly, the last couple of issues I bought I thought were pretty darn gorgeous! And that's despite having multiple inkers ever damn issue! If it wasn't for the damn JSA crossover and the commitment to the extra dollars I'd have had to make, I wouldn't have stopped buying it. Bagley's art (and Robinson's slowly improving scripts) would've kept me aboard otherwise.

That might be a moot point, if there's any truth to the rumor I saw on the DCMBs (I lurk there) about Bagley's contract being up after JLA #50 and him returning to Marvel.

Well I guess my opinion on the art doesn't really matter considering I haven't bought JLA for three months. Or, since, #43 came out.