Legion World Forums LEGION COMPANION Dr. Gym'll's Cultural Rarities The Outsiders

Well, as the Blackest Night tie-in ends, so apparently does Tomasi's run on the title. I can't say I'm all that happy Dan Didio himself is coming in--aside from the fact that its very difficult to seperate his ever-annoying personality from his work, I'm not all that impressed by his prior stuff (90's Superboy run--way to kill a title).

Still, I have to say that while I'm absolutely loving Green Lantern Corps and so many other things by Tomasi, I have not really enjoyed his run on Outsiders all that much. It just didn't have enough of a wow factor to pull me in. The Batman-related themes were also a turn-off, making it seem like the team can't stand on its own while not actually providing them with Batman.

Outsiders is a comic I'd really like to see succeed but I can't remember the last time I really honestly loved it. The inclusion of Halo and the Creeper were very welcome for me but it didn't do much. At this point I wish Geo-Force and Black Lightning were elsewhere in another comic. I kind of hate the Roy Raymond Jr. as Owlman idea--they could have done some cooler stuff than this pretty derivative and repetitive idea.

One good thing Tomasi did though was write a great Kitana. That was the highlight here. Halo as well.

For the Blackest Night tie-in itself, it was similar to the JLA story in that it wasn't bad it just wasn't anything special. Mediocre at best. The problem is that Geo-Force has already gone through all this stuff before with Terra; there is no new ground being broken here. How many times must everyone have to deal with what Terra did 30 years ago...we've all seen these stories before.

Tee-hee! 'Ground being broken'. By Terra!

A pun, but so true!

Did anyone read Didio's first issue? This beleaguered book just got it's cancellation notice. Dan shakes up the team, not in terms of members, but in attitude towards members. Everyone has a disagreement with someone, and none of it makes sense. The issue starts with them at each others throats.

Ok, the Black Lightning/Katana debate had some grounding, but give the history these two have, it seems odd they couldn't talk it out.

Phillip Tan is the new artist. That's about all I can say since he didn't even get the first issue drawn. And he's getting a fill in for the third issue, based on the solicits.

Ah well

Cejj, I don't read Outsiders but skim the reviews a lot. This issue has been pretty universally panned. However, some of them seem optimistic about how Dan ends the issue with something that ties into the Super-titles, but none of them spoil what exactly that is. Care to spoil it for me/us?

I don't know what excitement the ending brings to overcome the issue. They bring in a character with a connection to the Superman family, one not unseemly with the Outsiders even. I don't follow the Supes books, so I don't know if there's something brewing, but...

<span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">The Eradicator joins the book</span></span>

This issue just fell flat for me.

I didn't care for the surprise reveal character in the end. I would've rather they added Batwoman to the fold.

I agree with you CJ, that the heated argument between Katana and Black Lightning seemed disingenuous given their long standing relationship and core values. Also, I don't need another angry Asian female in the DCU.

And what gives with Brion? The haughty prince persona sounds logical, but he hasn't been this way in a long time and now all of a sudden he's now a Royal Pain in the Ass?

Finally,to make matters worse with this issue, Halo gets sucked away for who knows how long. She wasn't somebody I was fond of in the original run, but I've loved her new look and reintroduction to the team and now she's gone.

I feel like the book has done a complete wig out!

Robinson's dialogue on the Justice League titles has gotten lots of criticism in various reviews I've read. I'd say it's Shakespeare compared to what's written in OUTSIDERS.

Not fond of the general direction for Geo-Force and the team, as of now. Katana is clearly under some sort of mental influence.

Are we meant to attribute her and Geo-Force's weirdness to post Black Night emotional trauma? Or to 'bad love'?

I did like the revamped Masters of Disaster and thought their scenes full of energy and interest. Unlike the Markovia political stuff (yawn).

So who *is* the new Eradicator? Is it a character that's never appeared before, or is he a *familiar* Krypton guy? A mole planted by Zod? Or one of the other guilds?

Well, I’ve colleted the Outsiders since Winnick relaunched it with #1. I also co-own the first series as well. I’ve seen this title hit some pretty high ups (mostly in the 80’s) and some pretty low downs (mostly these last few years). And thus, I come to the latest two issues #26-27; I’ve just now read #26—and was reminded that this was Dan Didio’s first issue as writer. Note I did not say “delighted”; I felt I must come immediately to LW and post my thoughts before diving into #27.

My initial reaction: Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah.

This guy just has no creative talent. He’s an absolute hack.

Some may point to his Metal Men story in Wednesday Comics; let me remind you in total that is basically a one-issue story—and it’s a pretty run of the mill Metal Men story at that, using the basic guideline of how to do a regular ol’ superhero story. But yet even that, to steal a phrase from Todd, is like Shakespeare compared to this.

This is one of the worst issues I’ve ever read. I’ll reiterate: This is one of the worst issues I’ve ever read. Ah yes, now I recall what it was like when I read Countdown. This was the guy in charge of it—and reading this utter piece of shit, I can see his spirit was strong in Countdown as the guiding force.

But don’t worry Dan Didio fans (fan? Anyone?); I will provide examples:

*pages 2-8: Geo-Force acts like an utter douchebag, destroying any last hope that this character might actually get new fans. Well, its over, he’s finished. A pretty great character who has been gradually been killed by DC’s writers is now in the process of hitting bottom. To Roy Raymond: “You have misspoken twice tonight; there will not be a third time,” after Roy asks about Alfred—Geo Force then refers to him as “the manservant of a fallen comrade”. Wow. Thank Dan. Make someone look like a douche. How original. Make a king seem like he thinks he’s better than everyone. Freaking Ground-breaking.

*Kitana on pages…well, pretty much the rest of the issue. You know where she’d fit in real good? Rob Liefield’s Bloodstryke! Except of course, Rob Liefield is writing for his fans, and they might like this. Instead, Didio gives us a bloodthirsty “I hunger for souls”, murderous Kitana who is constantly treating Black Lightning like he’s some nerdy doof who should shut up and let her kill because “that’s what makes me a leader”. Kitana is basically Liefield’s Feral from X-Force, and Black Lightning is now Jughead. At this point, I’d rather see Kitana—whom I like—quietly die than have to put up with this. And the great Black Lightning, the first African-American superhero in the DCU and who recently had his status in the DCU elevated to the proper place it should be, is now run of the mill nobody. You might as well replaced him with Joe Public from the Bloodlines crossover. Because at least that would have made sense.

*That fantastic Dan Didio dialogue: Stan Lee, he ain’t. It reminds me of my own dialogue in the stories I wrote when I was 11 years old:
Captain Fear (as they’re fighting): “I enjoy a good dance, especially with someone as lovely as you”
Kitana: “You deserve to die for that comment alone’

*And just so they’re not left out, the Creeper and Metamorpho have a scene together that instead of any characterization, a fart joke is inserted (besides the two of them being at odds with one another just like every other team member is). How [sarcasm] cutting-edge [/sarcasm].

Putting all these awful parts together, we now have a whole…a whole big pile of shit. Not only will Outsiders be cancelled within the next year, I’m pretty sure some of the characters will die. And you know what? I can hardly muster any feeling to care. Here’s hoping the Jim Lee co-publisher bit is a way for Lee to phase Didio out.

The Outsiders under Dan Didio is actually quite a joke. And the joke is on me and all the other suckers who bought this issue.

Next issue up next

Reading your review redeemed my annoyance at the issue. And I'm not even really fond of reading what people don't like about a given artform/entertainment (I'm much more interested in what draws someone to a work, might make me a fan of something I'd never thought to try- or given a chance if I did try it).

Worst comic book you've ever read- now that's saying something . I don't think I can pinpoint the worst one I've ever read. Guess the memory of the all the suckage goes into some subconscious mental vault... where they all combine with bad soap opera, crummy old movies and the worst SPACE:1999 episodes into some unholy, Lovecraftian tentacly slime-sucking oozefest of horror.

Just imagine- if all fans had their own personal crap-banks emptied and the mental excretions somehow merged into an unholy extraconscious entity- something an as yet-uncreated combination of the Fantastic Four, the LSH, the Metal Men and the Gerber Defenders would fight, be defeated by, triumph against and then absorb as a member.

I just read #27 as a follow-up. Even worse

Draaaaaaaaaah-opped!

Why is Didio even writing a comic book except to feed his ego!?

What is the point of breaking up a team that just got back together? I love the original Outsiders, but recently issue, Black Lightning and Geo-Force launch into a psychotic slugfest and Katana acts like Brion's concubine!

And I hope Looker isn't returning just to capitalize on the whole vampire Twilight craze.

So Achilles the Warkiller, now going by The Olympian, is suddenly leveling cities andkilling folks willy-nilly? And getting drawn by Giffen in his Kirby-channeling style?

Did he just join the Outsiders, or was that a particularly obscure form of flirting he was using on Geo-Force?

This was a strangely sort-of enjoyable issue, in an alternate-reality kind of way.

Then again, I suppose I have to account myself a fan of Achilles the comic book character and his twin-trunked flying elephant. I'd like to see him join the JLA or the Global Guardians or the Myths That Walk as Heroes, just as long as he doesn't disappear into the mists like Alpha Centurion or Black Orchid. (Now that's the kernel of a new super-team-- Achilles, AC and BO- who else would buy it?)

Did he really write that? That dialogue is so hilariously bad it almost goes all the way round to good again.

It's unbelievable to me that this title hasn't been cancelled yet. If this hack wasn't in charge of the company and just using these poor characters to feed his ego it would have been.

Dan Didio still writing this comic evokes the same emotions out of me that Americans in the late 1970's felt when those hostages were held at the Iranian Embassy.

^ Now I don't feel so bad about comparing him to Stalin in the Team Titans thread.

The worst thing is, two of the recently promoted editors (Eddie Berganza and Ian Sattler) are just as much of the problem at DC as the Didiot is (and just as crappy of a writer in Berganza's case too) and so I worry that they're being groomed to take his place when he retires (or, in an ideal world, gets fired).

It's like DC are going to be stuck with that crappy editorial team for at least another decade. If the company can even survive that long with them in charge. ugh!

Based on positive remarks in this thread from Lash and Cobie, I decided to get back issues of the first 13 issues of the 90s Outsiders. I can't remember exactly why I didn't get it at the time -- after all, it was the same writer as the 80s Outsiders, Mike W. Barr. My best guess is that I was very anti-DC at the time, because of Doomsday/Azbats/Evil Hal, and made very few exceptions.

Anyhow, I read the twin #1 issues, a very clever way indeed of showcasing the large cast: one issue from the point of view of the female members, one issue from the point of view of the male members. Barr's style of writing is still like comfort food to me, and while Paul Pelletier was very raw at this stage (the inking doesn't help), there's enough glimmers of the potential that would blossom over the years.

I'll keep posting about the other issues as I read them.

Awesome! Definitely look forward to your thoughts as you go.

I think you'll see that Pelletier noticably improves with each issue so that by the end of his run, he's really just nailing it.

Also: I don't want to spoil things but be patient with Looker (if she's one of your favorites). Meanwhile, Halo & Kitana rock throughout.

Thanks, Cobie.

Always adored Katana and Halo (especially Katana), so that's good to know. Looker wasn't one of my favorites, but of course I felt terrible for her after what happened at the end of #1. So I'm intrigued to see where this goes.

Just finished #2.

Sanction was a clever parody of Cable and all the other kill-happy anti-heroes of the early 90s.

Faust is really growing on me. He's Felix Faust's son, right?

Finished all 13 issues I bought of the 90s Outsiders.

It was good, frantic fun, and I loved seeing the re-introductions of great 80s villain teams like the Jihad and the Masters of Disaster.

I think I actually like Looker better as a literal vamp.

I'll try to track down the remaining issues. I don't think it ran too much longer.

I believe it lasted to #24.

Ooh, the Masters of Disaster were fun!

Also the Pantheon/New Olympians (I think they were Outsiders foes?) and, my absolute favorite throwaway team, the Force of July!

There's an all-fem team that they battle sometime shortly after #13 that is pretty groovy. I think it also brings back Windfall to the series as well.