Legion World Forums LEGION COMPANION Dr. Gym'll's Cultural Rarities The all- Keith Giffen thread!

I tried that Giffen checklist, but it seems to be a dead link. A Google search didn't turn up any others either. Alas, alas...

Here's one more, courtesy of prof0011 writing in the Klordny APA: "The March Hare", a single issue. It appears to have had an undistinguished reception. "A black comedy about Milo, a professional hittman who inherits a pooka spirit that resembles a rabbit when he's hired to kill his brother." (Slings & Arrows) Plotted and drawn by Giffen, scripted by Robert Loren Fleming.

The hitman shows up on a game show, and he's the onoy contestent dressed like a giant fruit. He looks at the invisible rabbit, and says, “Do you have any idea how MUCH I HATE you?” The rabbit replies, “I SWEAR TO GOD!!! I thought EVERYBODY dressed up on shows like this!”

After so many years, it's STILL funny… (Of course, better art—like on FKATJL—might have helped.)

I recently updated my own Giffen index… should I try posting it, or just e-mailing a copy of it to someone? (It's got its own holes in it, but itmay have some stuff not on others' lists.)

Please post it. People here can maybe fill in the holes.

Okay, here's Keith's early career… (My index still needs plenty of updating; let me know anything I'm missing!)

MARVEL PREVIEW # 7 / Sum'76 – THE SWORD IN THE STAR! Stave 2: Witch World // Mantlo / KEITH GIFFEN

ALL-STAR COMICS # 60 / Jun'76 – Vulcan: Son Of Fire! // Conway / (Giffen) WOOD
ALL-STAR COMICS # 61 / Aug'76 – Hellfire And Holocaust // Conway / (Giffen) WOOD
ALL-STAR COMICS # 62 / Oct'76 – When Fall The Mighty // Conway (Levitz) / (Giffen) WOOD
ALL-STAR COMICS # 63 / Dec'76 – The Death Of Doctor Fate // Levitz / (Giffen) WOOD

SUPER-VILLAIN TEAM-UP # 8 / Oct'76 – Escape! // Englehart / Giffen / Owen McCarron

THE DEFENDERS # 42 / Dec'76 – “And In This Corner, The New Emissaries Of Evil!” // Conway – Giffen / Janson
THE DEFENDERS # 43 / Jan'77 – This World Is Mine! // Conway – Giffen / Janson
THE DEFENDERS # 44 / Feb'77 – Rage Of The Rajah! // Conway (Slifer & Kraft) – Giffen / Janson
THE DEFENDERS # 45 / Mar'77 – We Must Free The Defenders! // Conway (Slifer & Kraft) – Giffen / Janson
THE DEFENDERS # 46 / Apr'77 – Who Remembers Scorpio? prelude // Slifer & Kraft – Giffen / Janson
THE DEFENDERS # 47 / May'77 – Night Moves! // Kraft & Slifer (Warner) – Giffen / Janson

---------WHO REMEMBERS SCORPIO?--------
THE DEFENDERS # 48 / Jun'48 – Sinister Savior! // Kraft (w/ McGregor) – Giffen / Green
THE DEFENDERS # 49 / Jul'77 – Rampage // Kraft – Giffen / Royer
THE DEFENDERS # 50 / Aug'77 – Scorpio Must Die!

SUPER-VILLAIN TEAM-UP #13 / Aug'77 – When Walks The Warlord! // Mantlo / Giffen / Perlin

THE RAMPAGING HULK # 4 / Aug'77 – Gallery Of Villains (pin-ups) // Mantlo / Giffen / Perlin

THE DEFENDERS # 51 / Sep'77 – A Round With The Ringer! // Kraft – Giffen / Janson
THE DEFENDERS # 52 / Oct'77 – Defender Of The Realm! // Kraft – Giffen / Stone
THE DEFENDERS # 53 / Nov'77 – The Prince And The Presence! // Kraft – Giffen & Cockrum / Austin & Golden
THE DEFENDERS # 54 / Dec'54 – A Study In Survival! // Kraft – Giffen & Golden / McLeod

(Keith wound up doing half of each of these last 2, and was fired from Marvel for blowing deadlines!)

IRON MAN # 114 / Sep'78 – The Menace Of… Arsenal! // Mantlo / Giffen / Patterson

MARVEL PREMIERE # 44 / Oct'78 – THE JACK OF HEARTS! // Mantlo / Giffen / Nebres

Ooops!

THE DEFENDERS # 50 / Aug'77 – Scorpio Must Die! // Kraft – GIFFEN (w/ Royer, Tartaglione & Cockrum)

Just in case anyone's confused, here's the format I came up with…

Writer / ARTIST
Writer / Penciller / Inker
Co-Plotter & Script – Co-Plotter & Penciller / Inker
Co-Plotter & Script – CO-PLOTTER & ARTIST
Plotter (Scripter) / (Layouts) ARTIST
Writer (w/ Plot Assist) / ARTIST (w/ Inking Assist)

It's tough trying to cram a lot of info into as small a space on a chart as possible!

Weird, the Bite Me Fanboy Giffen checklist was working when I posted that.

Maybe it'll be back up shortly...

A Giffen thread and no one's even mentioned the incredibly delicious Realm of the Zodiac????

Is it wrong for a gay man to want to have Colleen Doran's babies?

Ken

We have a Zodiac thread here Proty II: Reign of the Zodiac

I'm sorry they're cancelling, it seems to have picked up for me - the first issue was just too confusing and boring...but I really liked #5. Giffen owns the property I understand, so maybe he can shop it around to another publisher. I'm not sure how that works.

Wouldn't it have been so much better if Coleen Doran had drawn the TMK run of the Legion? (Or just about ANYBODY ELSE, for that matter…)

I trust there's a certain circle of Hell reserved for editors like Mike Carlin who go around F****** up fan-favorite books—and then have the nerve to ADMIT they made a mistake afterwards, but STILL can't be bothered to fix it.

Wouldn't it have been so much better if Coleen Doran had drawn the TMK run of the Legion? (Or just about ANYBODY ELSE, for that matter…)

I trust there's a certain circle of Hell reserved for editors like Mike Carlin who go around F****** up fan-favorite books—and then have the nerve to ADMIT they made a mistake afterwards, but STILL can't be bothered to fix it.

(Oops—I think my browser needs to be replaced…)

Here's a couple I'd already added to my computer, index, but forgotten to add to the Giffen cross-reference list:

THE DEADLY HANDS OF KUNG FU: WHITE TIGER
#22 / Mar'76 – Who Is The White Tiger // Mantlo / Giffen / Rival

#24 / May'76 – “Tiger, Tiger… Burning Bright--” // Mantlo / Giffen / The Tribe

Keith sure did a lot of work with Bill Mantlo back then!

Keith has always said THE SWORD IN THE STAR was the first job he did for Marvel. Perhaps, but from the cover dates it seems his 2 episodes of SONS OF THE TIGER / WHITE TIGER were published first. Keith quickly became notorious among Marvel artists for his design of The Jack Of Hearts' costume. Apparently he was trying to out-do George Perez for the amount of detail, and everyone who ever drew the character later on HATED Keith for it!

When Perez abruptly dropped off WHITE TIGER in mid-story, he was followed by Keith Giffen, Gil Kane, Keith Giffen, Jim sherman, Ron Wilson (2 episodes), George Perez (one last episode) and Joe Staton (2 episodes). The character was later drawn by Sal Buscema (2 episodes of THE SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN) and Frank Robbins (2 episodes of THE HUMAN FLY). Seems like they just couldn't get anybody to stick around on that thing! Looking over the list, it also occurred to me that 2 acclaimed LEGION artists made their debut on the WHITE TIGER series! (Giffen & Sherman)

That link that Amentep posted for a Giffen index is active again, but has moved:

Giffen checklist

Prof0011emailed me a very detailed checklist for Giffen's work from Marvel Premier (1976), All Star Comics, Defenders, Iron Man, Legion of Super Heroes, L.E.G.I.O.N., Green Lantern, and others. It's not a full checklist of all Giffen's work, but lists dates, co-collaborators, page numbers, what Giffen did art, script, plot). It was an MSWord attachment, and I couldn't copy it here properly - so if anyone wants a copy, email me and I'll forward it to you.

Finally, from the "lonely geek" guy, a Giffen bio which he took from Trencher:

"Welcome to a page in honour of one of my favorite comic artist/writers, Keith Giffen. From his well
received work on the Legion of Super Heroes to the present day, this immensely talented
writer/artist has blazed a path through mainstream comics. His very individualistic art style on it's own
would have been enough to secure him a place in comic lore, but when matched with his take no
prisoners attitude to comic writing it makes him a leading light of the artform. He's responsible for the
cash cow Lobo, the hilarious Ambush Bug, the weird Heckler and much more besides. More
recently he has developed a career as a "Cleaner", taking over on flagging titles and finishing them off
in his own style.

He was born November 11 1952 in Queens, New York. In regards to his career in comics he has
been quoted as saying "Did 'em, do 'em, gonna keep on doing em."

This is what Marvel had do say about Mr. Giffen in the recently published Shadows & Light #3:

When Keith Giffen is asked to sum up his life to date, he often gives this
simple response: Born, draws comics, wishes he was dead. It is humour
such as this that has endeared Giffen to readers with creations such as
Lobo, Rocket Raccoon and Lunatik. "Fans know what to expect from
me," says Giffen. "I'm pretty much a tongue-in-cheek guy. So, if you want
grim and gritty, go someplace else".


From Trencher #1 we have the following factoids:

Name: Keith Giffen

Powers: Able to wear corduroy pants without making that annoying
"whiffing" Noise.

Height: 5' 10" Weight: 114lbs. (I know, Pretty Pathetic, ain't it?)

Origin: Recollection hazy, but still breaks out in a cold sweat whenever
driving through the Lincoln tunnel.

Ambitions: Actually getting the blasted lid off the jar instead of loosening
it just enough so that the next person to try...

Turn Ons: Karmic Retribution, confused sales clerks giving back too
much change, cover enhancements that don't require the purchase of more
than one copy of a comic.

Turn Offs: People who won't clear their throats even though it's obvious
that they've got one mother of a juicer in there, the guilt that makes me
return the change to the sales clerk, poly-bagged comics that are only
considered mint if the bag remains unopened even though the bag is not
chemically treated and will actually deep six the book in time

Biggest weakness: Two-finger typing (really makes writing this book an
adventure.)

Biggest asset: Never uses ninjas in stories....NEVER!


In my hunt for information about Mr. Giffen on the web I didn't have much luck until I found some
newsgroup postings by David Norman who had asked for help in putting together an exhaustive
catalogue of Mr. Giffen's works. After he had done all the hard work I asked if he would let me put it
up on a web page, and as you can see he agreed.

I hope in the future to add more information to the page such as biographical information and maybe
reviews of some of Mr. Giffen's work. If you feel like contributing then let me know. This is where
my contribution ends and David's hard work begins."

Giffen bio

“Fat Cramer”, I couldn’t “copy” the index to the Message Board, either. I had to RE-TYPE it! (Go back a page if you haven’t seen it yet.) The LEGION section is too long—NO WAY I’m posting that here!

Just thinking about what Giffen’s work looked like in the early days. The “Sword In The Star” episode followed up on the one done by Ed Hannigan & some cronies—where they “threw in the kitchen sink”. Keith did try to follow suit, although his anatomy was MUCH stiffer. Come to think of it, decades later, that hasn’t changed!

Keith’s got a lot of nerve saying he hates the JSA. Those 4 issues he did his layouts got to be finished by WALLY WOOD. Geez, you just can’t get any better than that. (Well, they did—when Wally did the next 2 issues ALL on his own. My vote for the best JSA art in the entire 1970’s. Go, Power Girl!)

Keith comes to Marvel (following Gerry Conway), and what happens? On SVTU (my 1st exposure to Giffen) they stuck him with someone named Owen McCarron—it was AWFUL!!! I never could figure how or why Herb Trimpe left after only 4 issues. The book really went to hell—again—at that point.

Next, Keith replaced Sal Buscema on THE DEFENDERS, when Conway booted the long-running team off just so HE could do it instead (the BASTARD!). Klaus Janson’s inks were already going to hell by then, and he had been murdering Sal’s work on the book for months by then. With Giffen, it was even WORSE!!! And it kept on… is it any wonder I dropped the book for several months, only coming back when Conway had left?

Things got better with “Who Remembers Scorpio?” Keith was inked by Dan Green (before HIS inks went to hell), Mike Royer (is it any wonder I suddenly thought I was reading a Kirby comic?) and on #50, John Tartaglione, Dave Cockrum (!!!) and Keith himself. Over the next few months, keith got inked by Don Perlion, Chic Stone (!!!), Terry Austin (WOW!!) and Bob McLeod (DOUBLE-wow!!!)—before getting fired. A year later, he was inked by Bruce Patterson (back when HE still knew what he was doing—how many inkers’ work have slid downhill in quality as years go by?) and Rudy Nebres (you could barely see Keith’s work under that at all) before disappearing for awhile.

When he resurfaced, at DC, they teamed him with Larry Mahstedt… WHOA!!! Where the HELL is Larry NOW?????

Praise all that's sacred for the recent GIFFEN ressurection! Let's discuss his recent work.

SUICIDE SQUAD was a flop saleswise; It was a very difficult read. I didn't enjoy some of it, some of it I liked. Overall, a disappointment.

FORMERLY KNOWN AS JUSTICE LEAGUE was a hit saleswise and quickly earned a TPB. Giffen in his element teamed with DeMatties. Good stuff; can't wait for the sequel.

REIGN OF THE ZODIAC is apparently a flop (it's getting cancelled). I myself dropped it after 2 issues.

LOBO UNBOUND is placing in the Top 100 (lower part), which may be good news for fans of AMBUSH BUG, who is appearing in issues 4-6 (he only issues I will buy).

THE LEGION # 31 was just released, featuring the return of Giffen ART, YAY! It's getting mixed reviews with more negative than positive, but I expect to enjoy it quite a bit myself.

THANOS is a character I couldn't care less about. Anyone reading it now that Giffen's taken it over?

Thanos has been good so far, with sutle Giffen-esque humor. Thanos is a character I have a hard time getting into, and so far I'm enjoying Giffen's run more than Starlin's.

Lobo Unbound is boring, annoying and corny. Except that every Ambush Bug scene is absolutely hysterical! I could care less about the story or Lobo at this point, I want more Ambush Bug! (Although I do find Lobo funny sometimes).

FKATJL- I knew it was going to be good, but it was surprisingly amazingly good! Excellent, I want more!

Haven't read Legion yet.

Suicide Squad- see Lash's comments, I agree verbattum. Hard to follow, but not bad, it had it's moments.

What I'd love to see- an Ambush Bug ongoing, with appearances by the Heckler, and Giffen's continuing take on the big guns of the JLA and the smaller guns of JLI!

Your Giff-wish list and mine match, Cobie!

Yay, Lash! I chalk that up to impeccable taste!

I'd also like to add that I really enjoyed Invasion, despite it being a crossover type book. It was fun, with lots of good McFarlane art drawing all the cool alien races of the DCU, especially the Legion ones that Giffen obviously loved. Sure there crappy parts, all crossovers have them, but this was fun! My one regret is that it wasn't twelve issues long with added Ambush Bug and Superman vs. Dominators/Khunds scenes!

Giffen on the Metal Men! - for an annual-type issue, or an arc - I'm thinking of the depressed, angst-ridden robot from Doug Adams' Hitchiker's Guide - it's something Giffen could handle well, I think. Maybe even the intro issue - too late for that now - but suppose we were to encounter the Metal Men for the first time, with their distinctive and somewhat wacky personalities of the 60s - it should be more funny than serious, IMO.

Where the hell is Larry Mahlstedt now? I wanna see someone said he was working in marketing/design? I don't know. I think his inks over Giffen (& Greg Laroque) were amazing!

And I always liked the Karl Kesel and Giffen combo!

I wanna run and get some of those Defenders back issues.

pax

Jorge

OK, I was going through all the issues of DC Comics Presents that my Dad owns, and although we have all the Ambush Bug stories in the run, there is actually one we are missing:

The Subs vs. Ambush Bug! How could we miss this one! Sonuva ! Now I have to hunt it down at the comic book store...

Tell me Ambush Bug faithful...is it good ?

Tha BESTest!

I reread it just last night, Cobie, and loved it as always! DC COMICS PRSENTS # 59!

Holey Moley!!!!

Well, I just bought DC Comics Presents #59 and read it for the first time ever. And I laughed my ass off the whole way!

I forgot how much I like Superman when he's shown with other heroes like the Subs and Ambush Bug.

Ambush Bug was hysterical the entire issue, and the scene where he puts Supe's cape on that alien with the eye-stalk had me in tears.

The Subs were great--I never saw the scene before with Porcupine Pete and Infectuous Lass on a date, and then Drura trying to use her feminine charms on Ambush Bug!

I can't believe I've never read this issue before, it was pure classic Giffen, with great art from him too!

This comic has left me smiling ear to ear, something that is always a good thing!

I still think the best idea for a Giffen DC series would be a Superman team up book that featured characters like Ambush Bug, the Heckler, Vext and the Subs!