Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Long Live the Legion! The Magic Wars -- Revisited

I know that Legion creators are always trying to update the characters in one way or another, Jerry, but it struck me as too convenient that both Vi and Ayla happened to be gay (or bisexual, if you prefer), for the reasons I mentioned.

You make an excellent point that characters who are introduced later, gay or not, prove to be less popular than the long-time favorites. Anybody have any theories on why this is so?

Stereotypical? No. Things happen in peoples' lives, they reevaluate or learn new things about themselves, they act and react on it. In Vi's case, I saw her as maybe coming to a realization. In Ayla's case, I saw it as sexual preference not really being a part of her make-up.

"Always?" This is a story having taken place over several decades, which in the beginning even skirting this issue would have been career death. Ferro couldn't be black and teens held hands. Incorporating sexuality didn't violate any back story as far as I could see because sexuality wasn't previously premitted to be a part of the back story.


Pol: I took him simply to be clueless. He wasn't ignoring Ayla, he wasn't dancing with his own sexuality, he was simply dumb. There were no motivations here.

Ayla: I took it that she was sincerely attracted to Pol, but perhaps not in a true way, more of a "rebound" way.

I think Ayla scared the hell out of Pol. She's one of his big brother's friends! Ew!

The whole "gay Pol commited suicide to escape the lecherous advances of hanging-on-to-her-last-dangling-tatters of heterosexuality Ayla" was one of those wacky theories that myself or Eryk comes up with... I think Cobie even linked it to being part of Ayla's years-in-planning revenge for Rokk having smacked the crap out of her during the Grell era.

It's kind of a silly theory anyway. After all, Pol wasn't anywhere near the evil kissing computer that turned a bunch of the Legionnaires gay back during the Adventure Era!

Sure, but there are ways of interpreting a character's actions and motives that transcend even the intentions, stated or otherwise, of the original writers and artists.

Case in point: Brainiac 5. I doubt Siegel, Hamilton, Shooter, or Bates meant to imply that he was insane, yet that conclusion, arrived at via Levitz, was built neatly upon various stories over the years (Brainy building Computo, a Supergirl android, etc.). It led to some very memorable stories that are credible only if one accepts the premise that Brainy had been slowly flipping out for years.

Others have inferred that Element Lad and/or Invisible Kid I were gay through similar "clues", and these ideas have gained some credence among fans. So, I was just wondering what clues, if any, where there for Ayla.

True, and the more I think about it, age may also have been a serious factor.

Consider: Ayla is the same age as Garth, who is probably at least the same age as Rokk (who was 14 when the Legion began). This means Ayla is about 29 during this period, while Pol must have been 18 or under when he joined the Legion. (No mention was made of the age restriction being waived in his case, as was done for Polar Boy.)

Older women/younger men do work out in real life, but Pol was probably too young to want the same things out of a relationship that Ayla might have wanted (assuming she understood her own motives). Kids at 18 are usually more into dating (notwithstanding the long-time monogamous relationships depicted in previous Legion stories); long-term relationships and marriage are usually expected for people Ayla's age. This may have been what terrified him.

I'm a fan of the nine-panel grid. I thought that Giffen didn't use it well in "The Magic Wars" and I never got the feeling that he was ever completely comfortable with the format.

I recently read LSH v. 4 # 33, which Giffen did not contribute to, but which nevertheless uses the grids. The images in that story are much clearer and more purposeful than the ones in "The Magic Wars" or much of v.4, as I remember it. I still don't think that the grids were the best way of telling a Legion story, but pencillers David A. Williams and Chris Sprouse showed that much could be done with them.

I'm a fan of the nine-panel grid (I'm a graphic designer, we're supposed to worship The Grid), and it was one of the things that made the Legion stand out from all the other comics, and was another selling point.

As much as I like Giffen's drawing style, to this day there are still panels in various issues that I don't know what the hell is going on. At times it's just too abstract, or perhaps it's too extreme a close up to make sense.

I didn't think much of the theory I proposed, really. I was just wondering if it was generally accepted.

As for Ayla and Vi, I think Ayla was bisexual and Vi was gay. I don't believe she ever sincerely loved Duplicate Boy. To connect this with Love & Rockets again, Ayla and Vi actually kind of remind me of Maggie and Hopey (although Ayla is a lot less neurotic than Maggie). Maggie is straight except where Hopey is concerned, but Hopey is almost completely gay.

The best use of the nine-panel grid I've seen yet is in LSH v.4 Annual # 3 -- the infamous Proty-Garth story -- which I read for the first time just last night. This story is mostly about relationships and conversations, many of the latter interweaving. The grid actually helps keep track of who's talking and about what.

Of course, it helps tremendously that Brandon Peterson drew *all* of the characters' faces and complete backgrounds, two details Giffen usually didn't bother with.

Which of course is linked to the fact that Tharok's horrile slapping of Rokk turned him into a slap-happy sadist that often lost control of his inner darkside. Ipso facto, Tharok = main reason Pol died. Even in death the leader of the Fatal Five proved his evil-ness!

BTW, I always saw Ayla as naturally bi-sexual too. I thought it very easily fit into her character to be so. Even more, it fit into Winnathian culture, especially as seen in TMK. Winnath seemed to be a place where such things as 'gay' or 'straight' didn't really matter one way or another. I felt the lack of clothes was a very blatant way to symbolize such 'freedom' on Winath without the restaints of society. (Mekt later revealed to be gay = further shows this?).

The kicker is that in truth, such free-thinking, easy-going views of Winath aren't accurate, as proved by the harsh stigma on children born without twins. Which becomes Winnath's dark secret that exposes some hypocricy.

At least, that's what I thought was part of all the underlying themes presented by TMK in regards to Winnath.

I thought Giffen used it brillantly at times in TMK, but then at times was still trying to get comfortable with it.

I personally love the 9-panel grid, and I think its use can make the actual artistic story-telling as intriguing as what's actually happening in the story. It definately leaves it open for much more scenes that take advantage of 'mis en scene' to give you (in the backgrounds) the ultimate motives of the characters, even if they are unsaid. The grid reminds of Ditko's Spider-Man or Wally Wood's EC stories, and it harkens back to a more responsible era, where artists were forced (by editors) to not be allowed to go the easy way out (splash pages and such).

Odd that an agricultural world would be so open minded. Coming from the Midwest, I think of agricultural and rural communities as being more conservate. However, as your next point suggests, every culture has its dark side.

On that basis, wouldn't a sixteen-panel grid be better?

The thing that drives me nuts about the 9 panel grid was that Giffen used it as an excuse to draw only 12 pages worth of art an issue by copying a panel and dropping into 3 or 4 other panels, just changing the word balloon text within. This was somehow considered meaningful storytelling, but I always felt cheated out of artwork.

(You could at least roll the eyes a different direction, or actually ADD eyes. yeesh!)

The thing that bothered me about Giffen's use of nine-panel grids is that he often wouldn't draw faces or backgrounds, apparently in an attempt to create mood. More often than not, it confounded me as a reader as I had no idea what was going on or why those images were meaningful.

Again, Brandon Peterson does a much better job of using the grid in the Proty story.

I think the above Ant-Man page is an example of how a 9(or 16)-panel grid can be used wrong. While I like the first few panels (dont quite well), the repeated focus on face after face gives it a 'talking heads' feel that bothers me sometime.

An example of a 9 panel grid done right is how Steranko would sometimes do them in Nick Fury: Agent of SHIELD. They need to be both artistic/complex in meaning and exciting with things happening at the same time. Basically, montage & mis en scene must both be working at full speed.

Cobalt, well that was just one page with lots of back & forth dialogue. I think it works great.

While I think it's ok to just have talking heads for a page, copy a panel maybe just ONCE for dramatic effect, I agree each panel should aristic/complex/and exciting.

Don't think every page should be a 9 panel grid. I can live with a three to four pages an issue.

If I was a comics editor, my artists would hate me . Because I think every single panel needs to contribute something to the story that both the artist and the writer are putting in there. I think that's often been lost these days. When that is happening, I think you can justify pretty much any panel layout.

But I definately agree that its a balance b/t things like a 9-panel grid working in sync with splash pages, four panel pages, etc. Each page having a different dynamic helps make the story more dynamic in a more subtle way. Kinda like Watchman, to use the most obvious and cliched example.

HEAR! HEAR! This should be gospel truth in any kind of story telling.

Just my simple thoughts on Pol/Magnetic Kid's death:

1) The Needed Death

If I remember correctly, only a number of Legionnaires were present on the "locked" Zerox. So while I agree that it could've been any one of them who gave up his/her life, bottom line it was the life of a Legionnaire that would have been the price. There were no innocent bystanders, no other heroes. Just a number of Legionnaires. Any death from this group automatically had weight in my book precisely because they were Legionnaires.

2) Magnetic Kid

I've had a different take on Magnetic Kid all these years. So you're a "legacy" character of sorts within the Legion, carrying on the "tradition" from your brother who happened to be Cosmic Boy, a founding member of the Legion. Years prior to joining you spend time in the academy, half-hoping you'll make it to the Legion...and likely half-hoping not yet.

But Pol gets in and tries his best to hold his own against his more senior peers, his co-inductees and more importantly, be his own man from under his brother's rather large shadow.

3) The Convergence

A death is needed to open the door to Zerox, with only Legionnaires present. Any of these deaths would have been tragic. For some odd reason (my theory: they don't really wanna die just yet), the more vocal Legionnaires actually explain why they should be the one to go. It's a case of not enough walking for the talking.

Pol/Magnetic Kid hardly utters a word and shoots off for the lock. In his parting words to Polar Boy, he says that it's what one does with his life and not how long it's stretched out. In my mind, it was akin to Pol saying something like this: I'm a newbie trying to make my mark under the shadow of my brother. It's not my brother's fault his shadow's so huge, and I'm really not faulting or resenting him for it. It's just that in this particular moment, sacrificing myself for a fighting chance at beating this thing is the best use of my life. Some will call it suicide, but for me it's laying down my life in the pursuit of something I believe in.


This is how I've viewed Pol's sacrifice. True, he may have been the most expendable Legionnaire at the time, but he was also the one who was trying the hardest to prove he earned his place in the team, with both the certainty and self-doubt that carried. His sacrifice gave the team that he wanted to prove so much to a chance.

Those are interesting thoughts about Pol, Igee. You are probably right about what likely was going through his mind. It's a pity that Levitz and Giffen didn't see fit to articulate his motives as well as you have.

That's the way I always looked at it, Igee, but I couldn't have described it nearly as well as you have.

I thought Levitz did a great job on the whole thing. It was a no win situation for at least one Legionnaire - Magnetic Kid stepped up and took it for the team. What else needed to be said? It seemed to be a sort of wake-up call even to some of the older Legionnaires about what was at stake, and gaining that entry at the expense of a life seemed to temper the team for the conclusion. Good stuff.