Legion World Forums LEGION COMPANION Dr. Gym'll's Cultural Rarities The All Spider-Man thread!

Hm...Waid on Spidey? I'll take it with some reservation and give Waid a chance...if he can capture Peter like he did Wally West, it has the potential to be great.

If Waid can give the love and respect of Peter's past like he's done with other comics (Legion not being one of them), then he'll definately have me won over.

Wieringo has done Spidey before, and done it very well (Sensational Spider-Man, was it?). I have a feeling he'll be able to draw good poses for Spidey in action, but I wonder how well he'll be able to make the villians look sinister. I bet his MJ is nice on the eyes though

Well, at this point, I'm going to post a few more reviews of Spidey's history. I hope no one minds, as they are fun for me and I hope some people still read them.

But nothing would please me more to see a continuing discussion on the current Spider-Man series, from Ultimate Spider-Man to Amazing Spider-Man to anything with Spidey in them.

So I hope my reviews don't break up the flow of any discussion too much.

The Hobgoblin Saga Part II (ASM #267-289)

The second half of the Hobgoblin Saga occurred after #267 and culminated in #292. As I’ve stated before, the Hobgoblin is my favorite of all of Spidey’s villains, and this era is one of my favorite for Spidey stories. #267 makes a good break, as the the next ten or so issues were really just one-shots in ASM and were relatively crappy. Afterwards, the Hobgoblin Saga exploded again in 1984, and continued to pick up steam all the way up until it’s mega-conclusion.

Now, I know that the real identity of the Hobgoblin got screwed up as the writers came and went in the series and that things didn’t turn out as well as Marvel wished it did. Peter David himself, who finally wrote the big revelation in #292 has made numerous mention of the problems he had with the editors in writing the story. Still, my love for this period jades my view of it and I still enjoy these issues immensely.

- A few quick stories from #267-275- not much to comment on here, other than wow, that was a bad year for Spidey stories. Nothing good at all there really, other than an appearance by Slyde, who with a grand total of (3) appearances ever, gains obscure Spidey villain status.

- The Return of the Hobgoblin and the Rose- finally, Amazing Spider-Man got back to the more interesting storylines that had been running through it for the past half decade and the Hobgoblin and the Rose returned with a vengeance. In the time that passed since we saw them, they had made major moves in taking over a large portion of organized crime in NYC. Their return appearances here are very good, and remind me why I loved these two characters so much. We also see Varley and Johnson, the Rose’s two main thugs back in action, and see right off that both the Hobgoblin and the Rose have every intention of betraying each other as soon as possible.

- Flash, Betty, Ned and Sha Shan- after some crazy characterization in PPTSS a few months earlier, all of these characters make the change from PPTSS to ASM and show up. And just like over there, a serious “What in the holy hell?” situation emerges, as Betty starts cheating on Ned with Flash (who is dating Sha Shan). Even more, Ned starts acting like a raving lunatic as he begins to suspect and Flash and Sha start having almost brawl-like fights.

- Of course, it’s obvious now why they moved the characters over, and it was pretty obvious then too. These four came to ASM for the wrap-up of the Hobgoblin Saga, which the editors must have decided should end soon. Thus, the writer began making obvious references to Ned that make him a prime suspect to be the Hobgoblin. The problem with that is that as the series went on, it became too likely—there was really no one else who the Hobgoblin would be, as Peter David would see when he came on for one issue in #292. A further problem is that once again, someone that Peter knows outside his life as Spider-Man suddenly ends up being a mystery villain! But, more on that at the end of this part.

- The other main candidate to be the Hobgoblin is Lance Bannon, the rival photographer at the Bugle. As time had progressed, his girlfriend Amy Powell pretty much left the series soon after she arrived, although Lance remained. However, he was rarely used other than to show up as a rival photog or to be a possible suspect to be the Hobgoblin.

- Silver Sable- Another cool character introduced is Silver Sable, who becomes part of the Spider-Man section of the Marvel U. I think she is written best when her intentions are not purely good, and it’s obvious that there is a monetary element to her motivation. Otherwise, she seems to much like a cute female European version of Nick Fury and SHIELD. Still, her story (and the Foreigner’s story) were pretty enjoyable.

- The Hobgoblin and Flash Thompson- the Hobgoblin Saga heats up as Hobby returns and does battle with Spidey once more. We the effects of the serum have truly taken hold—the Hobgoblin’s greatest fear of going crazy like Osbourn has become a reality, as he became more and more psycho and more and more obsessed with Spider-Man. At the end of this tale, Spidey fights the Hobgoblin, beats him and unmasks him to reveal…Flash!

Of course, the subplots leading up to this in Peter’s life are more important than what was happening in Spidey’s. We see Ned has learned the truth about Flash and Betty, and Sha Shan leaves Flash, after he hits her (yup, Flash actually hits Sha Shan…sad, I know). The gradual destruction of Spidey’s supporting cast, an ongoing theme since #90, picks up full speed here. Sha Shan exits and we never see her again, and Flash is now being blamed for being the Hobgoblin. Combined with Ned making Spidey’s Spider-sense go off, this makes Ned seem like the most likely candidate for the mystery villain.

- The Sinister Syndicate- a cool story that gets jumbled into this whole mess is a two-parter that pits Spidey against a whole bunch of his old villains: the Rhino, the Beetle, Speed Demon, Boomerang and Hydro-Man. He fights alongside Silver Sable, and then in an unlikely twist, the Sandman, who is reforming! This is a fun story and a good read…what super-heroes stories should be like. The villains are all great and are all menacing—easily beaten by Spidey but not too easily. The idea of Sandman going strait is tough though, since I always thought he was one of the more menacing Silver Age Marvel villains, especially since he fought Spidey and the Torch. At this point though, very few villains had ever really gone strait, so it was an interesting idea. As the two last decades have come and gone though, this theme has been done to death (Silver Age villain goes strait, kind of a pseudo hero that helps good guy now), and I prefer the Sandman as a bad guy. Besides, Spider-Man has Prowler (who I love), Rocket Racer, Will O’ Wisp and a whole bunch of others that fill this role.

- Mary Jane- throughout these stories, Mary Jane, like JJJ and Aunt May, remained a central part of Spidey’s cast. In the recent periods (my other review sections), she had regained her role as a major player in the cast although the writers held off on any romance between the two. Recently, she had just admitted to Peter that she knew he was Spider-Man and the two had a real heart to heart, giving her character almost a 180 makeover. To be honest, I never even really liked MJ up until this point, but that was the point of the whole thing—to make MJ likeable to Spidey fandom. To some degree, it worked. MJ became central to Peter’s life as the only person to know he was Spider-Man (well, Matt Murdock too), and she grew to dominate the series among the supporting cast (as in she appeared more than any other).

Because of this, the romance that the writers held off on for so long began to manifest itself without any push it seems. It almost seemed to rise naturally out of the progressing events in Spidey’s life, an it makes sense that the two, after growing so close and sharing such close secrets would fall in love once again. Unlike the first time Peter and MJ were together, I like this period. Anyone who knows my preferences know that I think she’s no Gwen, but the new likeable Mary Jane is a welcome addition to Peter’s life. After all, Peter’s lovelife had been all bust since that final page in #121.

- Scourge- there is a cool Scourge crossover during this time, in which Scourge planned on assassinating Flash because he thought it was the Hobgoblin. I like how this type of pseudo crossover weaves into Spidey’s existing continuity.

- Jack O’Lantern frees Flash Thompson- The Spidey/Hobgoblin/Rose/Ned/Flash saga becomes more complicated with the arrival of Jack O’Lantern, breaks Flash out of jail. This nicely sets up the Hobgoblin/Jack O’ Lantern feud that would ensue for the next ten issues. I see Jack O’ Lantern as little more than a second rate Hobgoblin. That’s probably why when Hobgoblin I dies and Jack takes over as Hobgoblin II, I kind of lost my fire in seeing a Hobgoblin appearance (as did apparently the rest of Spidey fandom). Part of me always wished Hobby could give him one good beating during these issues (although he kind of does) and maybe even kill him off.

- Gang War- When I was about 12 years old, this was my favorite story to read. I would read all #284 issues of ASM, all of PPTSS and Web, just to get to this point. I have an incredible fondness for this story, running from #284-288, because the huge amount of villains fighting each other with Spider-Man in the middle seemed so exciting. Looking at it now, I still find it exciting and a fun read, even though the ending wasn’t much compared to how it began. Still, there are some cool sequences:

o An all out Gang War breaks out in NYC, between Hammerhead, Silvermane, the Rose, the Blue Boys (new group) and the various people working for them. This directly connects to Kingpin being taken down in Daredevil during “Born Again” and his organization up for grabs. The Arranger, the Kingpin’s top man, is also introduced at this time, and surprisingly, the Arranger plays a key part in the next decades worth of stories (mainly b/c the Kingpin had become mainly Daredevil’s foe now).
o Hobgoblin in his glory, battling Spidey, battling others, working with Jack O’ Lantern but knowing full well that he would soon betray him, and then quickly disposing of Silvermane. Silverman, it seems, never dies though in his robot body, as this is like one of four times I’ve seen him killed off (he does have an interesting history though, from the Tablet saga to reappearing in Cap, to being paralyzed in the Green Goblin III saga, etc.)
o Punisher enters the fray. When the Punisher appeared at the end of the first part, it was one of his best entrances ever. Punisher-mania had really just started after his first mini, although it hadn’t kicked into high gear yet. Some good scenes b/t him and Spidey (I always like him better as a member of Spidey’s cast).
o The Rose revealed- We finally find out who the Rose is in pretty nonchalant way, as Richard Fisk is shown talking to a girl with his Rose mask in the other room. So, the Kingpin’s son is the Rose, which is something that many people (myself included) had guessed.
o The Rose kills a cop, we meet his partner and then pretty much exits the scene. The end of the Rose saga comes pretty unexpectedly during Gang War (which is really the reason it was written), as he kills a cop and begins having second thoughts about the whole thing. We also meet Alfredo, his partner, which comes kind of out of left-field and we learn that there is more going on than we thought. The Hobgoblin/Rose partnership is officially over, and the Rose appears to be retired.
o The Saga ends- Finally, it ends, with Kingpin coming back, killing everyone (though no one important, like Hammerhead), the heroes prevail. The ending always seemed like kind of a dud to me.

(Continued)

After Gang War, the chaotic villain madness seemed to be coming to an end. The Hobgoblin Saga was just about finished, with just a few loose ends to wrap up, which they did:

- The Death of the Hobgoblin- In #289, the mystery if finally over, and the identity of the Hobgoblin is finally revealed: Ned Leeds! It had gotten fairly obvious by this point, and to complicate matters, Ned had just died in the Wolverine/Spidey crossover! WTF? Enter Peter David, to try and fix things, and thus, we end up with issue 289. It seems Marvel considered backing out and making Hobby the Foreigner (which would have been a MAJOR mistake, as it doesn’t fit either character), but after rereading his appearances, David could see there was only one real choice to be Ned, as everyone else had official alibis. It would take Roger Stern, 20 years later, to come back and fix his creation, to give a real surprise reveal to the Hobgoblin identity.

But that was 20 years later, and in 1986, the Hobgoblin was Ned. And he was dead. Strangely, this anti-climatic ending fits for me, since it’s all I’ve ever known it as, but it marks a kind of end to an era for me in my Spidey collection. At this point, the real late 80’s/90’s/Image artists/mega Marvel marketing craze it hits, and the subplots from the early 80’s come to an end. The Hobgoblin saga ends, with nowhere near the climax as it should of, considering the buildup from #238, and from this point forward, Peter’s cast continues to be slowly destroyed. For example, Ned is dead, and while Flash is cleared at this point, but Betty now appears to have gone a little nuts after what happened. She pretty much exits Peter’s life now for quite awhile. We also now have it that throughout Spidey’s life, he’s known people who were super-villians in his life as Peter: Norman Osbourn, Harry Osbourne, Prof. Warren, Ned Leads, Liz Allen’s brother the Molten Man, etc. Now, most are related to the Goblin legacy that haunts Peter’s life (I see the Jackal as part of that), which when looked at like that, is an interesting and tragic theme.

Also, as I said, Jack O’ Lantern officially becomes Hobgoblin II, but never really recaptures the magic of the first one. Basically, he’s a common mercenary/thug. The magic of the Hobgoblin was that he was a mystery, as well as a normal man growing continually more evil and corrupted by power. In addition, he continued to weave himself into the already existing Spider-Man mythos, tying himself more to Peter and his supporting cast and their history as he went.

I should note though, that Roger Stern would one day come back, 20 years later, and add some additions to the story of Hobgoblin I that really made it all the more enjoyable and brought back a lot of this magic.

- Web of Spider-Man #31- the origin of the Rose. With Flash cleared, Ned revealed as the Hobgoblin and killed and the Gang War over, most of the ongoing subplots were cleared up. However, there was still the question of the Rose, which this random issue of WoS answered a month or so later. In it, we learn the origins of the Kingpin’s son becoming the Rose, Alfredo and his ties and the further developed origin of Ned Leeds as the Hobgoblin. This issue definitely exists to try and iron out the kinks left over from the explanation in #289, although it creates a few more by its inconsistencies. As much as Ned as the Hobgoblin works in places, it just doesn’t work at all in others.

From this point forward, we would see the increased (since it was already present IMO) trend of Peter's supporting cast continually being dismantled. Following the Hobgoblin saga, Betty was gone, Ned was dead, Sha Shan was gone, and we hardly ever see Lance Bannon again. Additionally, Harry and Liz Osbourn, now with a son, hardly ever appeared anymore either, and were effectively eliminated from the reaccuring cast (they showed up from time to time). In ASM in particulur, the next 100 or so issues hardy ever involved any members of the supporting cast besides MJ, Aunt May and Jonah Jameson. The other two titles would continue to focus on these members, although the list of supporting cast members continued to shrink.

Major Changes in the Life of Spider-Man (ASM #290-292)

After the Hobgoblin Saga ended, an even bigger change hit Spidey’s life:

#292- Peter propses to Mary Jane. Again, it seemed to almost come out of nowhere, with Peter suddenly getting back with MJ, but then: Peter makes a HUGE step and proposes to MJ, again! This time though, it seems like it would genuinely work, although it still feels strangely sudden.

#293-294- Mary Jane says yes. After a quick story with the Spider-Slayers and the son of Spencer Smythe (Alistair Smythe), MJ says yes, after some soul-searching on her home, by confronting her sister (who we saw in her big secret issue a few months back).

Annual #18 (is that right?)- the wedding of MJ and Peter. All in all, this was a pretty sweet issue. Mainly, the scenes with May, JJJ, Harry, Flash, Liz and the rest made it great. Even Peter and MJ were sweet in it, and it was a happy scene. The idea that Peter and Mary Jane could live happily ever after is appealing, as is the idea that after Peter had gone through so much, and suffered through such pain, there was a light at the end of the road. However there were two main problems:

1. Peter’s life didn’t end at this issue, and we now see his continuing adventures as a married man. By being married, this changes the main dynamic of the series. Now Peter *has* an ally who knows his secret and is there for him, and is no longer quite as tragic. Also, being married takes away a major portion of the drama for his love life. Granted, a fight with the spouse is still drama, but it’s not the same when we know that MJ is his loving and dutiful wife. Plus, the writers have to make sure MJ stays likeable—any fighting about her wanting to make Peter quit makes her come off as a shrew, leaving the readers (even those who totally understand her position) thinking “Damn! Why can’t MJ just back off and let him save lives? What a selfish jerk!”. The marriage, although interesting because it follows the logical progression of Peter’s life, takes away much of the earlier dynamic. Now, after a long night of getting the crapped kicked out of him by the Scorpion, he can come home to his loving (and hot!) wife, who understands him, where previously, he had to come home and explain to his g/f why he was out, get in a fight and then wonder if things would ever work out for him.

2. This doesn’t really relate to the marriage, per se, but it relates to the direction the writers were going re: MJ being a famous super-model. Bad, bad idea. It just doesn’t ring true. We saw it coming already with the honey-moon in France (with the Puma ), and then go from there. With MJ famous, that kind of sheds a lot of light on Peter Parker. Plus, ol’ hard-luck Parker isn’t exactly hard up for luck with a super-model wire at home, that just happens to understand his need to battle the Rhino. It just becomes strange to see MJ become a celebrity—ironically, it feels more unrealistic than Electro attacking.


Next: McFarlane! Venom! The Return to the Old Costume!

Heh, my thoughts on the Hobgoblin stuff can be a bit wordy and long-winded. Sorry It’s my favorite era after all. Anway:

The McFarlane Era (ASM #298-228?)

After Peter and MJ’s wedding, a whole new was ushered in. Peter Parker: The Spectacular Spider-Man was changed to just “The Spectacular Spider-Man”, and both that title and Web of Spider-Man went in a whole new direction. In fact, the comics of this era look noticeably different all of a sudden: the paper was different, the art-styles had changed, the very atmosphere of the Marvel U was different. Fans during this era will know what I’m talking about. The late 80’s/early 90’s had arrived. The X-Men exploded, Punisher mania began, Ghost Rider was right around the corner, the great runs of the main Marvel books were coming to an end…

As for Amazing Spider-Man, it got an artist who perhaps was the hottest artist of the entire period: Todd McFarlane. Although controversial and what not, no one can deny that his art on ASM was amazing, stunning and just downright beautiful. His art definitely defined an era, and brought with it many imitators.

The return to the old Costume- the first thing McFarlane did (no idea whose idea it was) was restore Spidey to his classic costume and get rid of the black one. Now, I use to hate the black one, but have come to like it over the years, mainly b/c I know that he eventually switched back. Still, the beautiful covers by McFarlane look so much prettier when seeing Spidey in his red and blue costume. His renditions of the Green Goblin, the Lizard, the Scorpion, etc. are absolutely stunning too.

Venom- Even an old time Silver Age Spidey villain fan like me has to appreciate the power of Venom in the 90’s. To be honest, I’ve never really cared for Venom, although a lot of that stems from my Dad’s dislike of both Venom and Carnage, since he preferred the Silver Age villains too. In hindsight, he is a good Spidey villain, in that he’s different from the rest, and if for no other purpose, finally solves the issue of the symbiotic costume and restores Peter to his classic costume. There are two main problems with Venom in the late 80’s/90’s:

1) he is way, way, way overused. He basically shows up every ten issues from #300-#400.
2) He represents the height of the Image era ‘overdoing’ it with their art. Although not so much McFarlane, Larsen really over does it in terns of his teeth, his tongue, “I’m gonna eat your brains”, etc.

McFarlane does the classic villains- McFarlane’s stories, with David Michelline writing them, were very tight, good super-hero stories. Although they weren’t anything major, they were a lot of fun, and we were able to see Todd’s rendition of: Rhino, Scorpion, Lizard, the Black Fox (who I get a kick out of), and then a whole bunch more in a big crossover with Captain America and others (which wasn’t that good, but the art was nice).

The Hobgoblin versus the Green Goblin (and done by McFarlane too!)- In the “Inferno” crossover, evil demons scourged New York City and many heroes pitched in. This little nugget of a story is seamlessly thrown into the mix: Harry Osbourn, in a now rare appearance, shows up and puts on his father’s old Green Goblin costume to actually *help* NYC. And then, he battles the Hobgoblin! So, it’s actually Green Goblin II versus Hobgoblin II, but with Todd McFarlane drawing, it sure looks good. Of course, this opens up a ton of other questions, like what the hell is Harry thinking?, will this jog back his missing memories of being Green Goblin II?, does the Hobgoblin know the secret to the connection b/t the Osbournes and the Goblin legacy?, etc.—all of which are neither addressed nor answered. Oh well. Sure looks good!

Styx and Stone- for some reason, I like these two guys. They are undoubtedly the pinnacle of throw away 90’s villains, with heavy artillery, a dumb moniker and absolutey no chance in hell of beating Forbush Man, let alone Spidey, but they’re fun. I wouldn’t mind seeing them more often in the big villain fight scenes (you know, the ones that seem to happen every ten months now, with Spidey surrounded by all his foes).

The guy that stalks MJ- for some reason, I can’t remember his name off-hand…a first so far for me on this timeline. The story with the guy who stalks MJ and owns their apartment building is around this time. I’m not sure if others liked it, but I found it largely not so memorable. Peter and MJ being evicted on Christmas fits well into Spidey tradition though. It’s interesting to note that the apartments of Spider-Man, which were once a big part of the mythos, had become highly unmemorable by this time. Pete and MJ’s next one, with the sky-light is a little more, but they never had the same pizzazz that his old 70’s one with the giant Indian statue did.

And of course—Holy Moley, MJ is freakin’ hot!!- McFarlane did something amazing that virtually no comic creator had ever dared to do before: he actually changed MJ’s hairstyle! Were the fans outraged? Have you seen her? McFarlane quite suddenly had you believing MJ was a super-model, as he drew probably the hottest comic book characters since John Romita Sr. Like Jim Lee in X-Men, he was blowing people away, and suddenly, MJ looked really different, but kind of the same. But she looked really good. For the rest of the 90’s, MJ’s hairstyle would continue to change, and she gained a distinctly different look for this era—showing that it truly was a different time for comics.

On a related note, McFarlane also made Peter totally ripped and chiseled out of stone, so I guess he was equally as hot. Not bad for the bookworm. This had been gradual for the last 100 issues or so, but after McFarlane, the door was blown wide-open: Spider-Man had one of the best builds in comics.

All in all, McFarlane had a good run. By issue #328 or so, he was moved off of Amazing Spider-Man, because his popularity had grown so immense, so potent, that Marvel was sure he could carry his own comic, and could definitely make a killing on his own Spider-Man comic. Thus, the forth Spider-Man comic was born. In the meantime, while Todd McFarlane set a new trend on ASM, SS and WoS were undergoing a different but equally fun route.

A *very* late reply, but some thoughts:

Drake, it seems you have a lot of the same tastes as me! As I wrote in those huge reviews, I love the Prowler, am a big White Tiger fan, and think the MJ issue is one of the best ever in Spidey's history (definately her best moment). Cloak & Dagger, my Hobgoblin favorite issues, the Black Cat and of course the Romita and then Frenz art....all just great stuff.

I hope you, Matlock, and others continue to post your thoughts on current Spidey stuff and on various points in his past!

I'm happy to see you get this thread back on track Cobie!!!

I'll let you in on a hidden shame: I traded all those ASM McFarlane issues away years ago for I don't know, Magic cards or some crap. The only one I kept was when Harry put on the Goblin suit to try to defend his family. How dumb am I? When was the last time I played Magic, you might ask? Well, I met my wife in late 97. That was pretty much that.

I'm glad you decided to pick up on this thread Cobie! It's fun getting all nostalgic about Spidey's past. Not to derail your timeline reviews, but what are you talking about regarding Hobgoblin and Ned Leeds? Did they retcon that out or something?? I remember being completely let down by the whole Wolverine/Spider-Man crossover and that anti-climactic reveal of Hobie's identity!

I think I lost interest in Spider-Man around Gang War but being brought back by MacFarlane - following him from his run on the Hulk. He really was exciting at the time (though I lost interest in him by the time he debuted his adjective-less Spider-Man title). I also liked the Solo appearance during this era and Venom was awesome when he first appeared - he was a genuine threat to Spidey and Peter Parker. But of course the overexposure came soon enough to ruin him.

Drake, I hear you on Venom. You know, the story in ASM #300 (1st Venom) is actually really good and really creepy—and excellent first appearance for a major bad guy. But his overexposure did him in—I think it was really Larsen’s tenure that Venom appearances became “Oh, it must be that four month period of the year where they do another Venom story”.

Re: Ned and the Hobgoblin:

About 5 years ago, Roger Stern did a mini-series called “Hobgoblin Lives!” that went back into the mystery of Hobgoblin I and changed a few major things, and some could say (I lean towards this) that he ‘fixed’ the mystery of the Hobgoblin.

Basically, we see the ‘original’ Hobgoblin reappear, and that he has not been dead at all! He faked his death and has laid low for the last few years, amassing power and waiting for a good opportunity—he then reemerges and kills off Hobgoblin II (Jason Macendale, the former Jack O’Lantern), for some reason or another (couldn’t wait to kill him anymore?). Suddenly, Spidey realizes that the 1st Hobgoblin never did die and that Ned was completely set up!

So, Betty and Spider-man start trying to solve the mystery of who he really is. We see some old theories brought back up (even that Menken guy who helped run Oscorp, who appeared in exactly 6 panels ever reappears—all b/c some fan thought it might be him in the letters pages during that era! Funny enough, Menken has even later been retconned to have been a member of the Scriers all these years…how’s that for obscure character suddenly getting major backstory?)

Anyway, the original Hobgoblin is back, and it’s not Ned, so Betty (now a bigtime investigative reporter these days) and Spidey hunt him down and it’s revealed that he’s…

SPOILER
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Roderick Kingsley! Yes, shocker of all shockers!

In an even more complicated twist, we learn that his brother (now this will be stretching your memory), the one who never said much but always followed him around, was actually the ‘true’ Roderick Kingsley, and that the Roderick we know is actually the criminal brother—masquerading around all these years pretending to be a flamboyant playboy, when actually he’s the insidious mastermind Hobgoblin! Stern then adds in a whole bunch of plot points that show how Kingsley had the resources, etc. to become the Hobster.

We then get an old fashioned awesome Spider-Man/Hobgoblin battle a la 1981! And finally, Spider-Man beats and captures the first Hobgoblin, and Betty knows in her heart that it was never Ned.

Except: four months later, in some Spider-verse crossover, Norman Osbourne helps spring Hobgoblin I from prison (Hobgoblin I and Green Goblin I team-up!)…except we never really see what happens to him as that story kind of twindled. He’s currently on the loose, in hiding, or doing something…but Hobgoblin I lives.

Basically, I like seeing my all-time favorite Spider-Man villains still around and still really dangerous and cool, so I’m happy.

I, um, hope I cleared some of this up…

Matt, that’s a tough trade! I’m sure you’re wife would have loved those McFarlane Spidey issues far more than the Magic Cards…

Up next for the reviews is what was going on in WoS and SS during this time, which should bring us close to my other favorite Spider-villian in the last 25 years, Tombstone.

You want something even more complicated? Remember those issues that PAD thought meant Leeds HAD to be the Hobgoblin , while Priest (the editor) claims he had nothing to do with (I'm sure Priest had a longer article on that specifically at one point, but if he did it's gone...)?

Here's what Tom DeFalco, who wrote said issues , had to say

'Boot, this is awesome, thanks for sharing! I love stuff like this. I'm really curious as to who DeFalco meant the Hobgoblin to be.

I'm glad that Stern was able to finally finish it off (he created Hobbie and wrote the first half of his appearances), though I wonder if too much had happened in the past twenty years to make it so Stern never got to do what he wanted. For instance, Lance Bannon was killed in one of the dumbest Spidey stories of the 90's, in possible the worst death of a supporting cast member (and that's saying something for Spidey!). I've always been under the impression that DeFalco and Frenz were on the same page as Stern and Romita Jr. though.

I do know that David was stuck in a tight spot in going with Ned Leeds. Who would have DeFalco put in? In Gang War, Lance is shown side by side with the Hobgoblin, eliminating him...all that was really left *was* Kingsley, and even that is not a solid connection.

Look at the DeFalco links in my last post

Saw it and should have read it first

Interesting--


---Stern wanted it to be Kingsley all along and would probably have played up this mystery a bit more. (Read it in 'Boot's PAD link).

(Still didn't see DeFalco reveal who he had in mind though. Maybe I'm missing it?)
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EDIT: (I'll add to my own posts, so I don't have 5 gazillion posts on the Hobgoblin )

You know, the more I think about it (and sadly, I’ve thought about it quite a lot ), the more I’m glad the Hobgoblin lived.

First, Jack O’Lantern always kind of seemed crappy to me. Even before Hobbie kicked his ass, I thought he was a sacred rate villain—which is why he never compared as Hobgoblin II. I’m glad that Jack couldn’t just pay someone off to kill him.

Second, the Foreigner, while pretty cool, just wasn’t cool enough for me to have the kind of power to kill my favorite super-villains. I like the idea that Hobgoblin outsmarted them both, and then laid low for years, letting them assume he’d died. And even if Foreigner ever found out that he failed, it’s not like he’d come gunning for the Hobgoblin, especially now that Macendale is dead.

Over the years, you can argue that Spidey has had exactly (4) MAJOR villains: the Green Goblin, who should never have returned, Venom, who has been completely overexposed to the point where they’ve totally changed him, Doctor Octopus, whose own 40 years of overexposure have led to a ton of terrible Doc Ock stories and Hobgoblin—whose mystique was slightly destroyed by the crappy Hobgoblin II and by the way he died.

Now, I’d personally make it a point to make all (4) of them pretty damn scary and intimidating again, and they’ve laid a foundation now for Hobgoblin—they just need to capitalize on it, or please God just leave him alone. I’d also make Norman Osbourne died again and never return (him being alive = no longer the mystique of the great Spidey foe who killed Gwen and denied Peter his revenge), and focus on making Doc Ock and Venom like that too.

*sigh*

Willikers, 'Boot! I'm at work and stuff, and it's hard searching through posts

Richard Fisk as Hobbie and Kingsley as the Rose? It actually makes a little more sense...(interesting that eventually it's turned out to be the exact switch in current continuity). You know, I never thought of doing it that way before. I think I might have liked it.

It also would make the scene in #249, when the Kingpin saves Spidey's life b/c he thinks Hobgoblin is getting too big for his britches more dramatic in hindsight.

Hm...three things:

1. All of the current Spidey series in the last three months have left me cold. Not sure if this is bad writing or if I still feel hurt over what JMS did to Gwen's history.

[Edit- this does not include Ultimate Spider-Man, which I still enjoy.]

2. I think I'll pick these reviews up again soon . To be honest, this period is probably one I remember the least, but I'll rely on Matlock, Drake and others to remind me of what I missed.

3. Upon reviewing the last few posts, I totally missed something, posted by Drake. I too remember the Solo story and thought it was pretty cool. It made me wonder if McFarlane considered ever doing a Solo series, or if that was a character he had created when he was growing up. Solo certainly is a strait up 90's/Image type character, but just because he fits the era doesn't mean he isn't fun. With characters like Punisher and Silver Sable outgrowing Spidey in the 90's, new hero/villains were needed for stories like this, it appears.

I'm not buying the current Spidey series, but I will be picking up Ultimate Spidey for the "Warriors" arc with Ultimate Moon Knight, Shang-Chi and Iron Fist!

Spidey's also in "New Avengers" which I'm picking up. Bendis certainly does write good Spider-Man banter.

Oh, and thanks guys for catching me up to date on the Hobgoblin stuff as well as the behind the scenes struggles. Very interesting.

Tombstone, Gang Wars, Villains, Subplots & Married Life – SSM #131-164, WoSM #34-67

Coinciding with McFarlane on ASM, the other two Spidey titles went through their own era which IMO was equally as enjoyable. Great stories and a more traditional style of Spider-Man stories, with villains, gang wars and a focus on the supporting cast make this an equally memorable time period.

While McFarlane’s art was a show-stealer, the other two titles were more story-oriented. Sal Buscema’s long run on SSM went into effect, and I look at his art with a great fondness. This was not always so—I used to loathe it. But as I’ve reread the run a dozen times, I’ve started to enjoy it. WoSM, while not as good as SSM, also had some great storylines too.

That’s not to say this era was without its crappy stories. After all, this was the late 1980’s/early 1990’s, and crappy stories were everywhere, in every corner of the MU and DCU. At one point, Gerry Conway, who Spider-Man fans lamenting fifteen years earlier had the ‘kiss of death’ even returned for a brief run on WoSM. (One fan even wrote a classic letter: “Conway? Nooooooooooo! Give me Ock, give me Kingpin, hell give me Norman Osbourne…just not Conway!”).

Kraven’s Last Hunt – I meant to make mention of this earlier, but I’ll do so now. Right after MJ and Peter’s marriage, “Kraven’s Last Hunt” ran through all three Spider-Man titles, and I still think to this day its one of the best Spider-Man stories ever told. Kraven, here, is the most serious and strongest character wise he’d ever been in his history. Spidey’s fear, helplessness and confusion is so dramatic that it still sticks out in my mind today. A nothing character like Vermin suddenly became fascinating, and even MJ had some really great scenes. This was a very dark tale, possibly the darkest ever in Spidey’s history at that point…but a very good one. Some very dramatic imagery too by Mike Zeck (wish he did more comics), and an excellent psychological story by J.M. Dematteis in the style that he has mastered. My father told me that long ago, comic book review magazines didn’t like this story and critics buried it for its grittiness—which is too bad, because I think all in all it’s a pretty kick-ass story. As someone who prefers the Silver Age villains, I’d hate to see any of them die…but it works so well here that it’s the perfect end to this story, and shows a strong respect to Kraven that had not been shown to him in two decades.

Second Sin-Eater Story (SSM #133-136) – Peter David returned for a second Sin-Eater story that featured the first Sin-Eater (who had killed Jean Dewolf and been horribly beaten by Spider-Man) and a second mysterious Sin-Eater, as well as Electro (who was welcome here). Though not as good as the first, this second story-arc is another good one IMO, and shows the kind of stories that Peter David excelled at in the 1990’s (and still does), with a very thorough look at the guilt Spider-Man felt about hurting the first Sin-Eater so bad, as well as the guilt he felt over Jean DeWolf’s death, when he had no control over it. There is even a bit of closure at the end in relation to what I deemed ‘Spidey’s Agony’ three pages ago.

Hobgoblin II – the Hobgoblin, my favorite Spider-Man villain, was now dead, and a new Hobgoblin had take his place (the old Jack O’Lantern). Finally, in WoSM #38, we see him fight Spidey…and what a let-down. Right away, the Hobgoblin is handled poorly and the mystique he once held is all but gone, as this new Hobgoblin is a shadow of the original. I’m unsure if it was intentional, or if the writer just didn’t care, but Hobgoblin II was handled as a second-rate villain of yesteryear, despite being one of the newest additions to Spidey’s rogues gallery. This trend would not go away for the rest of Hobgoblin II’s appearances and it appeared the glory days of Stern and Romita Jr., and even DeFalco and Frenz, were long-gone. It would take nearly two and a half decades later to bring the menace of the Hobgoblin back to what it once was.

Cult of Love, Betty all crazy, Looter returns… - Like I said, WoSM had some pretty weak story lines. Notably, Betty Brant went effectively crazy after Ned’s demise and was effectively written out of the series. Joining the large majority of all of Peter’s friends, Betty would not be seen for some time, and continue the trend of stripping away Peter’s supporting cast.


Tombstone – In WoSM and then SSM, a new villain appeared, who in my opinion, was the best new villain of this whole era. Tombstone, when first appearing, was menacing, cunning and downright scary. His impact on this era is apparent when viewing the covers—suddenly, Tombstone was all over the covers. He appeared in virtually every issue, becoming a recurring antagonist, whether fighting Spidey directly or being immersed in the crime scene of NYC. Additionally, he had a very interesting subplot with Joe Robertson that pitted him at odds with the beloved friend of Spidey. This gave Robbie a chance to shine for the first time in ages and we got to see new sides to him, as well as his wife and Randy (his son). Although some might say that Robbie was depicted as cowardly at times, I think that this presented us the opportunity to see Robbie vulnerable for the first time, and then eventually overcome that vulnerability and show the strength of character that had defined him in the late Silver Age. I like Tombstone and the sudden role he played in the series. Later, he’d be treated (like all Spider-Man’s enemies at one point or another) as an idiot, but that’s not an accurate portrayal and shows poor research on later writer’s parts. Tombstone is obviously a sociopath, but a very cunning and frightening one. And damn, he looks cool.

The NYC Underworld – After a brief period of not seeing the Underworld since the demise of the Hobgoblin and the Gang War, WosM and SSM eventually returned to it for our viewing. Like in most things, WoSM didn’t have the same depth of story that SSM did, but we still saw some interesting characters. Hammerhead reemerged as an important player, being scene as a powerful crime boss and recurring enemy of Spidey—rather than someone for ‘ol Webhead to tussle with, as he had been in the 70’s. We also saw more and more of the Arranger, the to lieutenant of the Kingpin that had introduced as a throwaway character to battle Spidey, while Frank Miller and the Daredevil writers focused on Kingpin in Daredevil’s comic. As this continued to happen and we saw less and less of the Kingping in Spidey, the Arranger came to the forefront as a very interesting character.

Tombstone/Punisher/Persuader – With the above background set as the NYC criminal world, and Tombstone now a part of Spidey’s life, a 4-parter ran through SSM which featured all of the above, as well as the Persuader, a mutant drawn in to help the mob, and the Punisher, who always makes for good crime drama in a Spider-Man story. The ending killing of the Persuader is surprising, but effective (in showing the difference between the Punisher and Spidey), and this story shows that things were progressing with the subplot of the organized criminal world. Here, we are introduced to the Lobo Brothers, who will become a recurring duo of enemies for Spider-Man, as well as the established mobsters in NYC. With the Arranger and Hammerhead on opposing sides, the Lobo Brothers now make a third element in the equation. Maintaining the ‘super-powered organized crime antagonism’ that the Rose and Hobgoblin had restored to the Spider-Man titles, this makes for further interesting drama.

Other Villains – Boomerang has a good battle with Spider-Man, actually marking his first appearance in a Spidey title. Although around since the Silver Age issues of Tales to Astonish, he never actually fought the Web-slinger until now, despite commonly being thought of as a Spider-Man villain today. Earlier, we also saw the first appearance of a second Tarantula although he would not last long (killed in his next appearance in ASM). The Vulture also had a brief story IIRC.

Inferno Crossover – I spoke of the Green Goblin/Hobgoblin battle in my review of McFarlane’s ASM, but the crossover also hit the other two Spidey titles. Although not visually as pleasing as the Todd M’s work, we did get to see Spidey’s supporting cast in action, and see the Bugle staff battling demons. JJJ cheers them on telling them they’re New Yorkers and to fight harder, back to back with Spidey—oh, how things had changed. Not that I mind, since Jonah had become likeable long ago. He now maintained a quiet antagonist role, and more of a gruff supporter of the supporting cast, especially Robbie (who had his Tombstone issues).

Aunt May, MJ, etc. – Besides the Bugle staff, MJ and Aunt May remained stalwart members of the supporting cast, as they had for some time now, and remained heavily in Peter’s life. After all, he was a married man now, and we got to see what married life was like for Spidey. These earliest years actually make it seem great, and its nice to see Peter happy—unknowingly, the fans would not grow bored of this for awhile. MJ is supportive too, and rarely fights the Spider-Man aspect of Peter’s inclinations. Gone were the days of ditzy, jerk MJ and here were the days of supportive, smart and helpful MJ. Aunt May’s boyfriend Nathan Lubiensky (I know I spelled that wrong ) was also recurring, and we occasionally were treated to Flash, who remained single, and Harry & Liz (with Normie). It was always welcome to see them, but the dynamic wasn’t as potent as the old days. With Harry and Liz married and MJ and Peter, it was…well…weird to see them all so happy and grown up. It was satisfying though, but it meant we’d see them less. With Betty written out of the series, as so many others were, this was about all that was left of Peter’s non-Bugle friends. Occassionaly they’d introduce others, but they’d be gone as quick as they came. Not being in college seemed to hinder the spread of where Pete would venture off too, with his scientific studies all but discarded and his focus on the Bugle, Spidey and MJ’s life.

The Bugle – Along with JJJ and Joe Robertson, we also saw some of the Bugle staff more. Gloria Grant reemerged as a central character for the first time in a long time, which was welcome. Lance Bannon was seen quite a bit less with the Hobgoblin Saga all wrapped up, but we occasionally got a glimpse of him (and usually to take a job away from Pete). One welcome addition was the DD supporting character Ben Urich, who at about this time became a supporting character to a good portion of the MU. He was relatively recurring in these two titles and maintained the same characterization he had in Daredevil. Another un-welcome addition to the cast was Nick Kurtzenberg, a nemesis photographer for Peter *and* Lance. Unlike Lance however, Nick was a complete jerk, and an annoying one to Peter and the fans as well (I can’t think of a single person who would like this character). For some time, he would continue to pop up (mainly in WoSM).

‘What about Carrion?’ – I saw this cover the other day and smiled. And about this time, the Spider-Man editors decided to return to a very, very complicated plot, and bring back, of all people, the Gwen clone in one of the annuals. This led to a hokey explanation by the High Evolutionary about the Jackal, cloning and the Gwen clone, all of which had been left in the past looooong ago. Years later, this would of course cause much confusion in the Clone Saga. They then decided to address the other outstanding continuity glitch (caused by the Annual)—what about Carrion? Thought before to be the living clone of Professor Miles Warren!!!, we now learn that Carrion is more like a virus…and thus meet Carrion II! This isn’t the worst thing ever, since Carrion is very striking visually, but it kind of undercuts the great story that occurred years earlier in early issues of PPTSM, where Carrion is presented as a very genuine threat to Spider-Man. The Carrion Saga had been a continuation of the Jackal Saga, which essentially was a continuation of the Green Goblin Saga. Decades long returns to past MAJOR plots had produced some great stories, but now the first big monkey wrench was thrown into the continuity machine.

Web of Spider-Man #50 – Sandman! Puma! Rocket Racer! Prowler! Will O’Wisp! Silver Sable! I enjoy this issue because it features a bunch of my favorite characters—namely all of Spidey’s enemies that had ever gone good (except Black Cat I guess, and Sable had never been bad). I have a special place in my heart for Rocket Racer, Puma and especially the Prowler, and I like the Sandman as both good and bad. Will O’Wisp is good too, but I admit I only like him b/c I’m so immersed in Spidey’s history.

MJ’s niece – another subplot at this time was the introduction of MJ’s niece (cousin?), who is a teenager, annoying, and seems to be causing tension between Peter and MJ. A subplot scene countless other times in various things, I found her relatively annoying. She eventually turns out to have bulimia. This always left me slightly conflicted: A) they handled it pretty well, but B) wow, this wreaks of a Punky Brewster/after school special that was particularly prominent in our culture during this era. Which, as a child of that era, was very annoying.

The Lobo Brothers War Part I – The Lobo Brothers continue to be a recurring nemesis (and thus, their enemies Hammerhead and the Arranger do), which makes for great drama. Even more, one of them suddenly develops a relationship with…Gloria Grant?! Gloria, who may have been the *only* person in Peter’s life that didn’t really cross into Spidey’s, is now yet another friend of Peter’s with an intense relationship with a super-villain/crime boss? You have to wonder if they’ll ever do a story where they all sit down and compare notes (actually that’d be cool – ‘the shadows of Norman Osborne and Spider-Man are ever present among us…’). On the plus side, at least we see more Gloria. Even more, we get to see Hammerhead in all his glory smash Spidey with his, er, hammer-head!

Robbie goes to Jail/Return of Tombstone – Following the revelations of a bad decision he made when he was a lot younger, Robbie reveals he did not speak up upon witnessing a murder (the right thing to do), and gets sent right to prison. Its heartbreaking to see Robbie go to prison (and slightly unrealistic, with mean big judge and all). Once there, who is on his cell-block? Tombstone! *This* makes for good drama, and the 11 year old Cobie was literally fraught with fear for poor Robbie, stuck in that jail with his arch-nemesis! Another prisoner befriends Robbie (a big guy named Bruiser—and I can not and never will ever associate my childhood reading of Spider-Man with my adult-hood viewing of ‘Oz’, so the mere mention of something awful here is too much for me to bear), and helps him against Tombstone. Unfortunately for Robbie, Tombstone kills him!

Chameleon Impersonating JJJ – Running in WoSM while the Tombstone Saga ran in SSM, the Chameleon begins to impersonate JJJ, much to Jonah and his wife Marla’s chagrin! An interesting subplot that allows us to focus on Marla Jameson, who we hadn’t seen much in awhile, although overall, isn’t the greatest attack the Chameleon has ever pulled. It also has Spidey working side by side with Jonah once again, proving that the dynamic between those two characters is one of the most unique and one of the most entertaining in all of comics history.

Spidey & Joe R vs. Tombstone! – the focus on Tombstone is as present as ever, as Spidey actually goes to the jail to help Robbie against Tombstone (the liberties the writers took even then, in the not so distant past are just plain great). After getting the crap get kicked out of him, and stopping a prison riot for another time, Tombstone and Robbie break free! Tombstone’s relationship with Robbie has taken on a bizarre twist at this point, where Tombstone is actually looking out for him—and actually seems to like him. However, he still will probably want to kill him. Following this, they end up among…inbred Deliverance types with some giant guy named Banjo? No problem—more Spidey versus Tombstone, Robbie showing his backbone, they beat Tombstone, but Tombstone is lost! Following this long-running storyline, Robbie has conquered his fear of Tombstone, and is commuted out jail (or something), and he returns to his traditional role at the Bugle. Meanwhile, Tombstone is now free too, and reemerges in the big gang war that’s been brewing these past few months. The story between the two, of course, is not over yet, but its been a wild ride so far (and a good one—despite Bruiser and Banjo ).

The Finale of the Lobo Brothers Saga – another story comes to a close as the Lobo Brothers are beaten once and for all by Spidey, as Gloria fires a gun into the fray—but she wasn’t aiming at Spidey! After falling in love with one of them, she tragically shoots the man she loves, killing him. The other Lobo Brother runs away (not seen to this day), leaving Gloria reeling.

Acts of Vengeance and Cosmic Spidey – Although I sometimes write tongue in cheek, I for the most part enjoy all the above stories. These, however, had a certain amount of overt goofiness, as Spidey becomes Captain Universe throughout Acts of Vengeance. Even as a young lad, I could see that ‘Acts’ was relatively cheesy, although it made for some good action.

Puma/Daily Bugle – the Puma returns, still popular among Spidey fans, including this reader. He becomes immersed in a Daily Bugle subplot, where he actually buys the Daily Bugle and controls it for a time, making life easier on Spider-Man. Eventually he sells it back to JJJ (for $1), after making Joe Robertson the Publisher. While a part of the cast, he interacts with MJ and the rest, as ell as helps out Spidey during some fights (including ‘Acts’).

He also pitches in against the demonized Hobgoblin after Hammerhead hires him to kill Joe R, although that fight is stopped by Tombstone (no one kills Robbie but me). The way all of these plots weave into one another shows excellent pacing of the overall progression of the comic IMO.

Demon-Hobgoblin and Carrion team-up!! - A fun villain team-up story reminiscent of the Spidey stories of old. What I remember most about this story (other than thinking ‘OK, so we got demon-Hobbie who is nothing like the original and non-clone virus Carrion, who is nothing like the original’) is that despite any bad things, it was a fun story of two bad guys teaming up against Spidey.

Return of the Molten Man – The Molten Man gets out of prison, and apparently is actually going strait! Although this was done with the Sandman earlier, it actually fits the Molten Man’s long career, as he had been tragic for decades since he started to be on fire all the time. Now back to how he originally was, Mark Raxton becomes very likeable as a former thug trying to be an honest citizen, despite being covered in pure, er, molt. He’s also Liz Allen’s step-brother, which makes for good drama with Harry and Liz (always good to see them). If anything, I prefer the Molten Man be the villain of Spidey’s that actually went strait and stayed that way (Sandman could go either way for me, and Prowler and Rocket Racer were never *really* villains).

Spidey versus all the baddies from Acts of Vengeance, with no Captain Universe powers! – a very fun, fun issue with non-stop action. Stories like this should happen every once and awhile for Spidey to show him cutting loose and doing what he does best.

Molten Man, Spidey and Green Goblin II team-up! – With Molten Man out of prison, Harry Osborne joins his brother-in-law and Spidey (can’t remember if it was against Tombstone or others)…as the Green Goblin! It’s here that Spidey realizes he needs to shut Harry being the Goblin down, as no good can come of it (and indeed, none did). After all, Harry is supposed to not be able to remember his time as Green Goblin II, so at this point, his memories probably begin to stir. Harry remains a good guy throughout this issue, but I can’t help but loathe knowing what will happen to him—after all, Harry is one of the few people to have been his friend for so long that’s still alive. The visual, however, of seeing Molten Man an Green Goblin helping Spidey, is very pleasing on the eyes.

As you might be able to tell, despite my joking, I very much love the above stories. Tombstone was a great villain, and this was a great era for subplots, gang wars and villains battling it out with Spidey. While Todd McFarlane was blowing people’s minds away in ASM, these titles maintained some great stories. There’s not really any true turning point for this era, but I’ll cut it off here to limit the length of this massive post.
At about this time, Larsen took over ASM and McFarlane got his own 4th Spidey title, and these two just rolled along…

Current Spidey titles:
'The Other' - garbage. Long, boring, not much happening. Spidey as Tony Stark's follower, New Avengers everywhere, MJ and Aunt May complaining and not doing anything, no supporting cast, no subplots, no villains.

ASM - still find JMS's run very annoying.

Marvel Knights Spidey - liked Millar's run, thought Hudland was 'ok', not overly eager for current issues.

FNSM - have high hopes for PAD, but at this time bored with the Other, so we'll see.

Spidey, as written by Bendis in New Avengers - fun, enjoyable Spidey, the one that I love. Don't really like him on the roster of a Super-team though.

USM - the best current Spider-Man book, despite any flaws. Above all, FUN. Really enjoying the Kitty Pryde relationship and I love how MJ is. The stories seem a bit drawn out lately, but that's OK. I can critique this book b/c I actually love it--the others have left me so high and dry that I have no desire to give them the time of day enough to critique them.

Current Spider-costume
I know its not permanent, but *groan*.

Yay Cobie! Glad to see this thread get a much welcomed bump.

Thanks Matt

I was hoping you, Drake and some others would enjoy it!

I'm a wordy sonuvagun

Current Spidey Round-Up
The Black Costume is back! When I was a wee lad, I hated the black costume, because my father was a traditionalist who lived through it in the 80's and despised it. I've come to appreciate it though, and I don't mind a return to it, since I know that w/o a doubt we'll return to the classic red and blue, which I feel is one of the best super-hero costumes of all time.

Amazing Spider-Man - I have to say I've come to loathe JMS' Spidey in a way I rarely do in comics. Virtually unreadable to me.

Sensational Spider-Man - this continues to feel like a comic I'd reccomend to a 12-13 eyar old, and that is not a bad thing. I think its action-packed with stylistic in-your-face art, and there are lots of villains. Even the supporting cast in this comic is basically the Black Cat and Puma (both of whom I really like). However, if you're looking for the Citizen Kane of Spider-Man comics, this isn't for you. But if you're looking for some Spider-Man action, this is good.

Peter Parker, Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man - Like I figured would happen, PAD has really picked up steam as a writer and this book has come into its own. While at first kind of slow, I think PAD has done a good job at making this a good Spider-Man comic, but more importantly, an excellent Peter Parker comic, which anyone with half a brain knows is what you need for a good Spider-Man story. Having Betty, Flash, Debra Whitman and a new character in the mysterious school nurse is a brillant return to filling Spidey's life with supporting characters. The recent Mysterio and Vulture arcs was great and the return of the Sandman is also good. I like PAD using Spidey's classic foes but not in the usual cliche.

Of course, the continual problem of Peter being stuck in the 'Pete, MJ and Aunt May sticking together' phase remains a centrical problem in that it pretty much as gotten beyond boring at this point. Something else else needed to be done, and apparently, with Aunt May in a coma, something might be. I've said it a thousand times and I stick to it: Aunt May should never have been ressurected (you either Norman Osbourn). And I actually do agree with Joe Q, Pete and MJ's marriage has indeed become a problem. Making Pete's identity known to the public did not help, it made it more unlike Spider-Man. I guess we'll have to see what happens, since I don't doubt Spider-Man will be around in 10 years, long after all of the current writers and editors have moved on, and I'm stuck here with all that's left of the comics fanbase reading

Cool I did not know this thread existed until today lol... I've just started reading spidey again and yeah I agree. FNSM is by far the better title. In retrospect while I was excited back when JMS started writing Amazing (what can I say I was a fan of Babylon 5), I do think that may have been partially resposible for me droping the title with #44, true I dropped comics periond back then, but the title wasn't doing much to keep me on either.... anyway, it looks like he will be done soon so things should be looking up.