Legion World Forums LEGION COMPANION Dr. Gym'll's Cultural Rarities Starman question

The official solicit:

So after all this time, I'm rereading the six-Omnibus collection... I recently bought a Jack Knight ink and watercolor piece from Barry Kitson, and thought it would be a good way to while away the time while I wait for it to get here. I'm realizing how little of the run I actually read! I've had the six volumes on my shelf behind the Mattel Jack Knight figure, but I really only ever read the first Omni, issue 50 for the Legion tie-in, and #81 when I was buying BLACKEST NIGHT for my buddy Mike... I'm halfway through the final volume and am kicking myself for not giving these an in-depth reading.

I remember not enjoying the issues anywhere near as much when Harris left the book. I'm still scarred by Robinson;s JLA run, not to want to go back to it too much. It certainly stood out at the time though.

I still don't see why Robinson was so great on Starman but has mostly laid an egg on everything else he's written with very few exceptions.

THE GOLDEN AGE, LEAVE IT TO CHANCE and STARMAN...All so good.

I did like The Golden Age. Although the art was also excellent there.

I did say "with a very few exceptions". Another less-known one was that mini he did starring the GA Vigilante.

But this is also the guy who wrote "Cry for Justice".....

I was replying only to Pov, not questioning your opinion.

I don't think either of our responses warranted such an upsetting, traumatising reminder of Cry for Justice.

Although some of his JLA related work can be said to be transcendent. It was some of the poorest work I've read across various media, not just comics.

Optometrist appointment the other day. While waiting, I plowed thru the Ted Knight STARMAN stories from ADVENTURE COMICS #72-75...

Case Of The Magic Bloodstone!
The Case Of Murders In Outer Space!
The Case Of The Monstrous Animal-Men
The Strange Case Of The Luckless Liars!

All of these were by Gardner Fox & Jack Burnley. They look and read very nice and "professional", but it's too easy to see why this series didn't catch on at the time. Apart from the entire series concept and the hero's costume & powers seeming too "generic" and "deritivate" (the Ted Knight series was the result of a TEAM of 5 editors & Burnley pooling ideas-- "creation by committee" if there ever was an example), you have the bit about Ted always faking illness which gets tiresome. Then there's his not wearing a facemask, yet both his girlfriend Doris and his FBI contact somehow never recognize him.

Burnley's art is VERY nice, sharp, clean, "realistic", I'd almost say for comics, decades ahead of its time. It actually looks like it would have been a better fit in newspaper strips (in fact, Burnley did most of the BATMAN Sunday stories in the early 40s). At the same time, it's a bit "stiff", and not very "lively". I'm reminded that at the time the Golden Age Archive book came out (2000), it was one of many inspirations for a project I was working on. But since then, I've tried to take the advice of another artist and friend who kept urging me to "back away from too much photo-reference". As a result, while I still think it's pretty, it doesn't "grab" me the way it did 21 years ago.

Most of the line reproduction isn't bad (though I sometimes find myself wishing somone had done photographic reproduction right off the original printed comics), but the 4th story I read today looked like they really didn't have good source material to work with (some pages looked really fuzzy). I guess with stuff from that era, one should be grateful you can read it AT ALL these days, in any kind of "reasonably" decent shape.

New question:

Is the 45-issue Will Payton Starman series worth collecting? I'm not exactly flush with cash right now, but I'm intrigued. I have little familiarity with Will beyond the forgettable Eclipso event where he was killed off. He certainly seemed more likable than some of the other Starmen, though. Plus, his costumes were cool. And more than half the run was written by the often-brilliant Roger Stern, another thing that intrigues me.

It was a bit like Stern's Power of the Atom. Writing and art were okay, but never really pushed on.
Starman was an overpowered everyman and I recall Stern setting up a decent family cast around him.

His main foes were connected to his origin. But I don't recall him either finding a niche or it being a title that made you anticipate the the next issue. DC's Event comics and guest appearances possibly gave it some small boosts in sales.

I got the first several issues cheaply at a local shop at the time. Like the Atom, both were still part of DC's post crisis relaunch. But neither were on the same level as Superman, Wonder Woman, Flash, JLA or Suicide Squad.

A caveat is that I was very much a DC reader back then. Those who liked Stern's Marvel work, might get more from them.

Thank you, Thoth.

I have a passing familiarity with Power of the Atom, as some of the issues were drawn by Graham Nolan, but he hadn't found his own style yet, and Stern's scripts were nothing special. I guess I'm concerned that Starman is more of the same (most of Stern's issues there were drawn by Tom Lyle, another good artist whose best work was still a few years away.)

OTOH, the idea of Will Payton being an "overpowered everyman" actually holds some appeal for me, as it reminds me of one of my favorite Marvel characters, Quasar.

I collected them for a while. The setup was interesting as the readers knew some of where his powers came from but he did not, and much of the first few issues is Will exploring what he can do and the people that were intended to get the powers trying to get them back. Roger Stern's writing was fairly typical for him I think, which I tended to enjoy but was nothing outstanding. I did enjoy his supporting cast, particularly his sister who was aware of his secret.

Looking back through the covers made me remember that I actually did enjoy the character and the journey Stern took him on. His family interactions continued longer than I remembered. Another part I liked was how he didn't have a "typical" superhero background nor other hero peers to learn from (living in Arizona) so he fumbled around a bit figuring out what to do. He did have several guest stars appearing over time, I guess to tie him in more to the existing DC Universe, including Superman 2 or 3 times, Power Girl more than once, Batman twice, and others (including 20th Century Lar Gand late in the run). Another interesting development was when Kitty Faulkner/Rampage moved into the area and they began a relationship and she helped him get a handle on his powers.

Tom Lyle's artwork was ok but never hugely thrilled me. Nevertheless it told the story well. The costume design though I thought was terrific and really stood out. I was disappointed when it changed to a darker more symmetrical design with Dave Hoover taking over the art with #26. Not long after in #29 Len Strazewski took over writing and I stopped collecting.

Honestly I don't know whether to recommend it to you or not. Roger Stern did some good work with the characters and I guess that was what kept me hooked. It's been years since I read it and my main memory is of being disappointed that more wasn't done with him, which I guess reflected that I really liked how he started out.

The text piece on the first issue mentions it being a little closer to Atom than they wanted, so they moved from that. They were also looking to link in with Invasion quite a bit in advance. A combination of the tried and tested guest star approach, but with him also taking advantage of the annual event books.

45 issues is a decent run. Aztek tried lots of guest stars and gave him JLA membership, and it lasted 10. Also more than Beetle, Booster Gold and not far off Captain Atom's 57.

Perhaps Stern had the plan of taking a random event, giving someone powers and then having him interact with the DCU for the first year. Just an everyperson, rather than a grim, disturbed vigilante.

It must have been later in the run, due to him having the dark costume, but Guy Gardner got the job of trying to recruit Starman for the JLI in a JLI issue. Cue fight when Starman declines.

stile mentions Lyle's art. I remember that as a plus for the book. Lots of space (that Arizona setting) and light.

Stile, I appreciate your candor. Because while your memories of the Will Payton series may be lukewarm overall, your noting of the book's good qualities definitely moves me closer to giving the back issues (or at least the ones written by Roger Stern) a fair chance. In particular, I am intrigued by his relationship with Rampage/Kitty Faulkner.

Thoth, I agree 100 percent that 45 issues was a more-than-respectable run. Especially considering that in the present day, runs rarely go past 50 issues before being relaunched with a new creative team. Your description of Stern's possible motivations is also well-observed and most likely correct. And as for Lyle's art, I've been comparing samples of it from Starman with some of his Spider-Man work for Marvel several years later, and while the latter is more dynamic, Lyle consistently show a good grasp of composition, perspective, and, as you already noted, space.

Thanks, guys.

Anyone else have thoughts on Will Payton?

https://www.cbr.com/almost-hidden-roger-stern-and-tom-lyles-starman/

A few pages of the first issue and a mini review.

Good stuff. Thanks, Thoth.

Deadline went on to appear in Peter David's Aquaman.

The more I look back at this I think I must have really liked it.

Here's another article that discusses his everyman aspect. https://dcinthe80s.tumblr.com/post/62354151767/starman-1988

I also just realised that the first issue was titled "Grassroots Hero" so yeah that was the idea from the start.

Thank you, Stile.

Thanks stile. I was looking for that sub picture yesterday. I remembered Rhea Jones and Manhunter being in it.