Legion World Forums LEGION COMPANION Dr. Gym'll's Cultural Rarities Official '52' Discussion Thread ... SPOILERS!

Response to Mystery Lad below:

<span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">
"The four horsemen will end her rain."

>"Her rain"-- I can't think of one, but is there >a DC heroine or villainess who controls weather?

I dunno. I've tried to think of some but I'm drawing a blank. Cobie? Any ideas? The ONLY thing I have found so far is a reference to the ancient priests and priestesses of Isis being healers having control over the weather. Which would make sense with the Checkmate assassins theory.

>Or is that metaphorical? As in rain meaning >power, possibly not the homophonous 'reign', of >some sort? If so, that could be referencing >just about anything.

Exactly, hence the reason for the large number of theories on the subject.

>"Four Horsemen"-- Who might symbolize Death, >Pestilence, War and Famine in the DCU?

Not sure. I'm still thinking this is a pseudo-hint of Apokolips involvement. The checkmate idea is a good one but too many clues ultimately point in Darkseid's direction for me.

"Dead by lead."

>Dev-em/Mon-el make sense. Or else Lead of the >Metal Men will kill someone. Or Element Lad or >Metamorpho or Dr. Alchemy...

Unlike a lot of folks, I don't see there being ANY LoSH connections in 52. So that rules out Mon and Jan to me.

"He won't smell it"

>Ralph is what I thought of, too. But he never >really 'smelled' things... it was more like >Spidey-sense, wasn't it?

Excellent point.

"The Tornado is in pieces."

>I wonder what is going on with the elemental >part of the Red Tornado when he's incapacitated.

I wondered that too. Last time this happened he went nuts...but this time he's in space, so who knows?

"It hurts to breathe..."

>It definitely *does* sound familiar, Jamie. >I'm thinking of fairly recent vintage, too. >But I'm not placing it. Maybe something to do >with someone getting a power recently?

It's bugging me. I thought it may have been Conner but I just double-checked that. It could be that we've heard it before in other media that it sounds so familiar.

>Or more reference to a chemical/elemental >attack?

Possibly.

"Where is the Curry heir?"

> Or Tempest?

Unless the clue refers to Tempest. I never thought about that before...

"The scarab is eternal."

>The scarab was the symbol of resurrection to >the Egyptians.

So was Isis....or at least she was instrumental in ressurecting Osiris.

"The old gods are dead and the new gods want what's left."

>If it *isn't* the New Gods who 'want what's >left (of what?)", maybe a new generation of >heroes is being referenced?

I don't think so, there's too many connectors to the New Gods, that I think it's them. There's:

Egg Fu
The Kirbyesque Weapon Renee found.

"Don't ask the question, it lies."

>Maybe this isn't about Vic Sage-- or whoever's >wearing The Question's mask-- at all. Maybe >someone'll be searching for answer to a >
>question that is the wrong one for them to ask?

Possibly. Skeets is an 'it'....

"The reach
the reach
the reach"

>I thought of Luthor and his new drug or >whatever it is that's supposed to turn anyone >into a superhuman.

I think you just nailed this one. I think Ralph will get his powers but and this is the way it will happen.

"I'm supposed to be dead?"

>Notice this is a question. Is it lying?

That or time is effed up.

"Find the Sun Devils."

>I know about the old DC series. Is there also >a DCU sports team with this name?

Yes. I think it refers to the former, tho'.

"Infinity Inc."

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>Your Egg-Fu theories are terrific ones! I >think it'll take a *lot* of work for even >writers like Morrison and Johns to pull off >making that character credible.

It certainly smacks of a Morrison idea combined with a John's make it relevant to today story, doesnt' it?

>Though I'm basing that judgment strictly on the >John Byrne issues of WONDER WOMAN. I'm afraid >I haven't read anything else featuring him. >Was he a more... serious, for lack of a better >word... entity elsewhere/when?

Not really. He was pretty much played for a joke the whole time, albeit a racist one.

Jamie

Cobie, you just may be onto to something with the Daxamite as Supernova theory. But the whole Tellerium issue as a solar generator throws me. Maybe they are connected some other way then?

And I'm now firmly in the "Skeets Fault" camp. I think that by bringing another Skeets back (the original was destroyed, remember?), something happened in the Timestream.

Also, I had a quick read through of the new issue, see below:

<span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">Booster's outed in the media by Manthrax and Ralph this week. More details soon!</span></span>

Week 7

This was my fave issue to date. Some precious moments here. The weird thing is that ther are cliffhanger reveals on the last page of each issue but the story doesnt continue directly from them. We're left to piece the off panel resolutions together ourselves sometimes weeks later.

<span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">Starfire in the land of the lotus eaters. Booster getting his. Meeting Kate Kane has me worried about what might happen to Montoya.</span></span>

Okay, first read through last night. More spoilage below:

<span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">Anyone else wonder about "Don't ask the question, it lies.", when Booster said to Ralph, "Ask Skeets!".

Why the heck would Skeets, who seems almost human-like recite the sordid details in front of Ralph and Booster? That struck me as odd. Was this statement a lie and because of the time flux, Sue may still be alive?

Also, in the Catwoman 'Robs' Pharmacy article, a line was repeated in the jumbled mess of the text. "Stones in the Fressa". Anyone have any idea what Fressa is? The only reference I could find is to a type of body cream. Is this how Luthor transmitted the meta-gene to Steel?

Also, while I was initally unhappy with Booster's story (particularly his portrayal) this part with him and Ralph was good and the potential ramifications of his actions are more than was ever addressed in his comic.

And we get to see the Boostermobile again! Yay!

I also think there is more going on with Booster and his intentions than what appears on the surface. No facts to back this up but what was he trying to tell Ralph at the end of the issue?
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Jamie

52 WEEK #7

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The opening scene made me think of Timber Wolf and his addiction to lotus fruit back in the 70's. Y'think this planet is where that goodie came from? Starfire with those juices running down her chin was a... disturbing sight.

Is that Bette Kane in that newspaper photo that led Montoya to Kate Kane?

Ralph's certainly got an edge to him, here. A welcome one that Booster feels the bite of-- to my enjoyment. I liked the Rene/Kate scene. It reminded me of a film noir scene from a 1940's b&w movie. Watching the closeted socialite become Batwoman should make for some fun sequences.

Devilance? Should his appearance trigger any memories? Or just a 'what the heck' response?

Maybe he's the protection for a lotus fruit smuggling operation.

I'm glad a couple of the 'main' plots (though I'm wondering if the six character streams that were advertised in promotional interviews, etc. actually *are* the main plots) are beginning to intersect, as we see Elongated Man and the Conner cult joining up with sleaze-ball Booster Gold here. The one doubt I have about the series is that it might be disjointed, as it's split into such a wide focus. So far, it's more like a television drama with a large cast of characters. I wonder if new readers- or at least those not so familiar with DC- are enjoying it? That's going to be the test of success for this title, I think.

I didn't consciously recognize anything that illuminates the info found in Rip Hunter's bunker, here. Did anyone else? That's something we should try to keep track of.

Only what I wrote about Skeets in the post above yours, ML.

Jamie

You just reminded me of something I read in CSN (Comic Shop News) a few weeks ago that I meant to post here and completely forgot!

<span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">In the monthly preview section, there was a mention about "the return of Sue Dibny" listed for one of the upcoming weeks!</span></span>

I'll try to remember to find the exact quote when I get home tonight along with the date of the issue of CSN in which it was printed.

Vee,

I remember something about that too. The question is:

<span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">Is she resurrected by the Cult of Conner, or is it a result of a time flux?</span></span>

Also, not having read the Forever People stuff when I was younger, I did not know that:

<span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">Devilance was a minion of Darkseid's. So that's TWO minions of his making an appearance in 52. So, it's quite likely that it is the "New Gods" here and not 'new gods'.</span></span>

Jamie

I hope Booster was "brought down to Earth" by the revelation that he paid and actor to be a villain (Manthrax?!?!? Really? Yuck!). He can forget "endorsement" deals now...although bad press and immoral behavior hasn't hurt Kobe Bryant in the long run...

The way it played out reminded me of a movie I loved as a kid, "Hero At Large". Plot:<span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">John Ritter played a down on his luck actor who, while wearing a superhero costume promoting a movie release "Captain Avenger", foiled a robbery at a neighborhood grocery store. He then reacts to media hype and tries to perform good deeds. The company that hired him to wear the costume (along with a few dozen other guys) figure out he was the one playing hero, and approach him with an offer to keep it up, playing on the "good for the city..." angle. He agrees and a staged battle with a thief occurs on a subway train (sounding familiar?). He later gets a key to the city from the mayor at what turns into the mayor's reelection campaign (everyone wants to ride the promotional wave, free press!! ) and a reporter shows up and turns the whole thing upside down, introducing the crook from the subway as a paid actor... (again, sound familiar?). Ritter's character has to run away in disgrace before he is lynched by the New Yorkers who feel betrayed. However, before he can get out of town, he stumbles upon a burning building with a trapped child no one can get to. He saves the kid but almost dies in the process, and his heroism inspires others to go in after him too. In the end he redeems him self and gets the girl (a neighbor played by Anne Archer) and all is well.</span></span>.

I think Waid horked the script. Especially if Booster winds up redeeming himself the same way...

I hope Booster can get with the program. I've always liked him as a character, but he's being an ass in the memory of his good buddy Ted!!

My feeling is that this is not the same Booster that we've known all along. I believe that in the "correction" that occured at the end of IC, that Booster was replaced by another that is just now coming back in time to make his killing. He does not have the benefit of the experiences the other one had from all the years he had spent in the 20th/21st Century as a Justice Leaguer, and aespecially as Ted Kord's buddy (who kept him under control). Remeber, this Booster did not recognize Clark Kent at the memorial and he has a Skeets, so it can not be the same version as before.

I have a bad feeling that he will not make it out of 52 in one piece.

Do we know how Ralph got his wedding ring back? It was conspicuously absent after he was submerged in that Kryptonian water-thing. Now it's back on...

Well, seems like it's official:

<span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text"> 52 website </span></span>

Apparently, this has been out there for some time now.

Vee, then how does Booster 'know' the JLI folks? Do you think he may be faking it?

Jamie

[edit note: just fixing the url]

I would think from historical records

Since this thread has been quiet the last few days, here's a rundown of this week's issue:

<span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">
- Steel is checked out by S.T.A.R. They confirm that he has been infected by Luthor's metagene. The how and when has been speculated by many folks here, so it should come as no surprise. Apparently, he cannot control it but there he has a solid and molten form....will be become a Metal Man?

- Ralph and Ollie talk about Ollie running for Mayor of Star City. It's actually a throwback to the original story concept in that the original concept was mentioned. The investigate a Cult of Conner church in Star City.

- Adam and Buddy go looking for Kori and are captured by Devilance as well.

- Supernova makes his first appearance in flashbacks, as people relate their rescues by him.

- Booster's meltdown continues as his jealousy over Supernova's successes come bearing down on him. Booster takes it out on a nosy reporter, none other than Clark Kent. Kent claims he intends to find out just who Supernova really is.

- Natasha finds out about John's 'stainless steel' and when fed up with his supposed hypocrisy, gets Luthor to infect her. Luthor orders his tech's to give her everything and the story ends there.

A couple of things to mention this week...

In the two Supernova rescues shown (the third was not shown) a fire and/or explosion was involved. Personally, I think Supernova did this himself, making him even more of a fraud than Booster is.

Also, there's a connection to be made with Luthor's metagene process and with appears to be happening in China. Both are MAKING super-powered beings, at the same time. Where did Luthor get the tech? Where did the Chinese? Is this more Apokoliptian manipulation?

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Jamie

I though this week's issue was good, but not all that exciting. Next week's looks like a lot of fun, however.

I'm approaching this series as more of a serial type of drama than a super-hero book. There's going to have to be bits and pieces that aren't exactly world-shattering in order to advance the plot. So far, they have done a good job with the series, IMO. The only jarring issue was the coverage dedicated to the heroes in space. But in hindsight, it was necessary to advance the plot. Especially, if it turns out as it looks to.

Jamie

The storylines I'm most into right now are the Question/Montoya mystery (especially since it will lead to Batwoman) and Black Adam. The new Supernova thing is very intriguing as well.

Booster and Ralph's stories are second to me.

So far Steel and the space characters story aren't doing much for me.

So far guys I'm just waiting to see this new Isis that is going to be in Black Adam's life. I hope they don't introduce her, just to kill her off.

Okay, so this issue we get the debut of a new Luthor-created super-team, most of whom I expect will probably end up as cannon-fodder come next massive crossover.

The big plot advancement comes in the space heroes, where they find out that the pointless space team from IC apparently managed to piss off the gods, who think they saw something they shouldn't have.

And the Question meets up with Montoya again, and tells her that Intergang is targeting Metropolis, which I'm guessing connects to the whole gods-pissed-off plot.

And the History of the DCU continues to be a bore.

The August issue of Wizard (just picked it up today) has a section on Rip Hunter's lab. They discuss 10 of the clues listed there (and according to Didio EVERYTHING on that page was a clue. "This is the most important page in all of 52! Each one of those fragments, each one of those bits, everything seen there serves a purpose. There is no wasted information on that page.") Some of what the Wizard writer(s) speculate could be considered very spoilerish.

<span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">1) The Dominators are definitely connected to 52 as we speculated on another thread. That was "52" they were saying last issue. Waid says "To them, is this like the Alamo ? Stay tuned?

2) "2000 years from now" is a reference to Kamandi's future. No word on whether or not this plays into things but it must or wouldn't even have been mentioned.

3) "Super Nova" was an alias Superman used when he lost his powers once in a 70s World's Finest (I actually have the issue and had forgotten the name). Batman of course was opposed to him trying to "hero" without powers and training. They speculate that since Supes has no powers in during 52, it might refer to him since the Super Nova costume that will appear is a slight variation of the one from the old WF story. However, they quote Waid as saying "One might be wise to look not only at heroes, but former heroes" And he adds, "or villains, or former villains"

4) "Where is the Son of Superman" Of course, Clark has no kids, and OYL, Lois isn't pregnant or on maternity leave. So this could mean the return of Superboy.

5) "Where is Batman?" Wacker confirms that Bats, Nightwing and Robin do appear at some point in 52, even though they are all traveling the world together during this time.

6) "Who is the Batwoman" We already know this is Kathy "Kate" Kane but Didio say "When it gets interesting is when Batman comes back!"

7) "Who is Diana Prince" I didn't know that in recent continuity WW had actually used the name Diana Prince as an alias, as she had in the 70s. They imply that the CIA operative we just met in WW1 is defintely her and wonder what she had been up to during 52.

8) "Someone is monitoring. They see us. They see me!" Refers to the Monitors as seen in Brave New World. They have said something is very wrong in the DCU and they have their eyes on Rip Hunter. Could that mean he is responsible for "breaking time"?

9) "The Lazarus Pit Rises" Could be a reference to the return of Ra's al Ghul but might also refer to Conner due to the actions of the Cult of Conner. Rucka is quoted as saying "There are a lot of dead characters following Infinte Crisis. Quite a few of them deserve a second bite of the apple of life."

10) "I'm supposed to be dead? Where am I? When am I" Most likely refers to Rip Hunter, whom lots of people would like to find. The writers make of point of reminding us that Degaton killed Chronos recently because he was some sort of obstacle to future plans and wonder whether Rip Hunter has met the same fate at his hands or that of another time traveler. </span></span>

I want to know if I missed something. The DC Solicits for Week Nine said we'd see a debut or something of the new JLA. Did I miss something?

Atom # 1, however, showed us a couple members of the new team...

Well #7 on Vee's spoiler list answers a question I had from WW #1

Okay, so here's the rundown for this week...spoilers ahead!

<span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">
Steel has it out with Luthor at a press function over Natasha's disappearance. Natasha and Lex's new JLA make and appearance but only Steel and Natasha throw down.

The space crew has a conversation with Devilance about why he has captured them. Apparently, the space heroes had seen things that were only meant for the 'gods' and were hidden by the 'two score and 12 veils'.

The Question meets Renee in a Lesbian bar in disguise, introduces himself as Vic (and Charlie). He's been laying low due to injuries received in the fight with the alien but alleges that Intergang is moving the Kirbytech weapons as part of an upcoming invasion.

Mention is made of Ollie Queen running for Star City Mayor.

No Booster, Ralph, or Adam this week. Looks like Adam and Booster are getting the spotlight next week.
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Okay, that's the quick recap. Here's some things I noticed:

<span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">

Natasha's powers look a LOT like Supernova's in that they seem to be light based. There's even some of the same star shapes that appear on his costume as effects around her.

It seems that Steel has disgraced himself much like Booster has as there were plenty of press around when he threatened Luthor's life and fought Natasha.

Again, it comes back to the New Gods. Intergang was involved with Apokolips from their very first appearance with Darkseid/Desaad providing them tech....Kirbytech? Recently, Luthor had control of Intergang but someone else is running the show now. Or is supposed to have, at least.

So now we have even more connections between Luthor, Darkseid, and the Intergang weapon shipments. Seems like there is a lot going on to destabilize things in the DC Universe.

I also went back last week and reread Alan's story about what happened out there and something caught my eye. When Reddy exploded, there was a odd circle shape that represented the explosion...but it was a bluish shade. Looks a LOT like a Boom Tube in hindsight. Maybe Apokolips was behind the tragedy there as well? Sure sounds like it, from what we have seen from this weeks Devilance appearance.

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Adding comments about Vee's spoilers.

<span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">

The Dominators connection is something that is giving me fits. They were the ones who discovered the human metagene in Invasion and that it could be used to trigger superhuman abilities. Didn't they want to harvest this?

And the Daxamites worked with the Dominators then as well....(of course, so did everyone else.)

I actually think parts of 9 and 10 refer to one another. We only suppose this refers to Rip but what if it meant someone returned from the dead, such as Sue Dibny? What if the Cult was actually using Larzarus Pits to bring people back from the dead? That would sure cause a gap in someones memory. And anyone brought back from the dead would probably be surprised to find they had died....

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Jamie

I thought the art this week was pretty bad.

Interesting that Batwoman's already out and about (so to speak). I wonder when/where we'll actually get to see the origin story.

#8-- Should Steel add 'Stainless' to his name? STAINLESS STEEL! At first I thought it was too goofy-- but the more I think about it, the more I like it!

I liked that the mom on the beach was wearing a Wonder Woman inspired bathing suit. If super-heroes were real, there'd be a lot more of that type of thing.


#9-- Lame costumes for Luthor's League! Natasha, Herakles, a shadow-guy and three others. Well, I'm mildly curious. I was sort of interested in Natasha at least. Though her attitude here isn't one I necessarily want to read, it would provide a source of conflict for ol' Stainless Steel, Lex and who knows who else. She's got a big fall coming. That's clear. Wonder if Booster Gold will end up joining Luthor's League?

Just what *did* Lex's 'full treatment' yield for Natasha? Super-strength... some form of an energy-powered punch? Invulnerability? Was her energy-punch where you got the light-based power idea from, Stratum?

Any other panels were her deflecting Steel's... melted steel (his skin? ick!), rather than her emitting energy, I think.

Intergang and Devilance? When will these plotlines intersect?

Batwoman's already haunting rooftops? Surprising.