Legion World Forums LEGION COMPANION Dr. Gym'll's Cultural Rarities Official '52' Discussion Thread ... SPOILERS!

One thing that is definitely missing from that cover...

<span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">There is no Flash! </span></span>

<span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">Unless the new Flash is a woman with a really long ponytail </span></span>

Whoever is on that cover, I would love to see more classic JLAers back on the roster. Red Tornado would be a start, and I'd love for Black Canary, Zatanna and Firestorm (even if it's the current one) to join up. The satellite era JLA had such a unique dynamic of big hitters and less powerful yet effective heroes.

...No, I don't think that's right. Infinity Inc. existed post-Crisis, and wasn't wiped out in Zero Hour, or (unless I just haven't heard about it) in Infinite Crisis. Characters like Obsidian and Atom-Smasher and Mr. Bones and Hourman and Northwind and Brainwave Jr. are still alive, right? And Jade was until recently? For that matter, I think there's probably a lot of Who's Who that's still in play.

I would love to see that promo art that was done of all the potential JLof A members a few months back, published in Wizard I think, in order to compare that group to this one. I tried searching for it but came up blank

I am going to be *SO* bummed if the GL isn't Hal, but from the silhouette, it actually looks more like Guy to me.

HMMMMMM....

I love these kinds of guessing games. Well, let's go from easiest to hardest. I think from the <span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">male-to-female ratio, the hawkperson at the top is probably Carter.</span></span>

If that's the case, then <span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">The Green Arrow has got to be either Ollie or Roy. From a storytelling standpoint, you've gotta have a foil for Hawkman.</span></span>

That Green Lantern costume and haircut is <span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">most definitely not Hal. I agree with Drake that it's probably Guy, but we *MIGHT* be seeing someone new.</span></span>

Behind Batman is definitely <span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">Red Tornado, and about damn time!!!</span></span>

That leaves the three who are REALLY hard to figure out.

<span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">Check out the gauntlets on the babe in the back. Because of this, I don't think it's Dinah. The head shape almost makes me wonder if it's not a new female Dr. Fate (that COULD be the helm of Nabu.) Though a possible female Ray is a good guess as well.</span></span>

<span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">Check out the flight posture and musculature on the guy in the middle. Capt. Atom is a good possibility. Those big honkin' fists sure make me think of Steel, though. Booster's not a bad possibility here, either, though I don't think the end of 52 is going to be that kind to him.</span></span>

<span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">Finally, ponytail babe. Looks like Artemis, though why you'd need Artemis in a league with WW is beyond me. I would like to point out that Zatanna HAS worn her hair like that in the past, though. <grins></span></span>

All you had to do was ask Vee.

Thanks Scott!

I knew either you or Gary would come up with it once you saw my comment.

You're welcome! And here is a cleaner, smaller scan of the color version (with KK) and a large black and white (without KK).

If you look closely at those two pics...

<span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">I think that IS Carter. The headgear has distinct wings, not swept wings like Hawkgirl's.</span></span>

Also, <span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">I think there actually may be 2 people portrayed in the image everyone (including me) is calling Red Tornado. The torso looks too wide for it to be just one body, even accounting for his wide cape.</span></span>

I really hope its Hawkman in that pic, as he really needs a place in the DCU right now. I'm more apt to agree with Cru--I'd like some more classic JLAers in there like Dinah, Zee or even the new Firestorm, who I'm growing to like. I think Bulleteer might be a right guess too.

Re: 52. Has really gotten awesome. Stratum, that was a kick-ass analysis of the blackboard--very impressive!

I wouldn't mind having the membership include everyone in the first promo pic. But then I'm a Legion fan.

I also think the two females are Skyrocket of Power Company and Zatanna in a new (retro Sindella-like) costume.

<span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">That's actually what I was talking about when I mentioned Starfire. The body above looks like Reddy, but I don't think that's his tornado trail below him... I think it's Kory's hair trail. I think she is in front of him.</span></span>

I'll play!

<span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">When I looked at the figure with the green ring, I also thought: "That could be Guy."

The so-far androgynous flying figure: a Rocket Red?

The upper female figure: Faith? (I didn't read any of Byrne's Doom Patrol, I have no idea what her current status is.)

The other female figure: Witchfire of the Power Company? Her personality wouldn't seem to make her a good prospect for League membership, but she did get a little face time in Infinite Crisis -- perhaps so more people would recognize her when this new lineup debuts?

Or maybe John Henry Irons' niece? I understand she's getting some face time in 52 (which I'm not buying, so I'm going by secondhand accounts). Though that would make a Rocket Red somewhat redundant. </span></span>

Cobie,

Thanks. I figured you'd appreciate it. There's some bits that I had wrong, so a revision will be coming forth soon.

Also, I posted my theory to the Absorbacon's comments section and Scipio now posted the following:

The Absorbacon

Jamie

Updated with new theories....

Okay, I went and pulled most of the scribblings and assorted things in the two page layout of Booster in Rip Hunter's base. This is long, so I'll apologize up front.

SPOILAGE ahead, be ye warned!

<span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">

First of a quick note of things found in the room....tons of clocks that all apparently stopped at 11:52. A LED that reads 00:52.

On the blacboard the are a lot of little circled 52's all heading toward earth. I have not counted them but I'm thinking there's enough to have 52 of them.

Now, on to the blackboard:

"The four horsemen will end her rain."

I think the first part points to Apokolips....but I I don't know about the second....Isis? I have also seen a theory that the horsemen refers to Checkmate, which sounds quite good. The 'her rain' has been speculated that it refers to the Sheeda Queen but I think it refers to Waller or Sasha if the horsemen are Checkmate Knights.

I have also seen theories that this refers to Isis. Which, given Checkmate's status as a covert ops agency, could me that they assassinate her because of Black Adam's actions.

"Dead by lead."

I think we all have an idea but I think this refers to Dev-Em and not Mon. Dev was retconned into a Daxamite...this I think is foreshadowing on how he is defeated.

"He won't smell it"

This has to do with Ralph. I think most folks agree on that now.

"Sonic Disruptors -> Time Masters -> Time Servants"

My first thoughts on this were confused by Morrow's earlier attempted to build a sonic disintegrator, not a disruptor. But Sonic Disruptors and Time Masters were both series previously published by DC.

"I'm not Kryptonite"

No idea. Is it an anagram, maybe?

"The Tornado is in pieces."

But we only know where his 'vox' is....

"It hurts to breathe..."

This sure sounds familiar. Can anyone else place this quote?

"The scarab is eternal?"

Obviously referring to Beetle's scarab....or is it an Eygptian reference (thinking of Adam and Isis). Maybe they're connected in a way we don't know yet?

"Where is the Curry heir?"

This likely refers to the new Aquaman, who for some reason I think is the son of the Golden Age Arthur Curry. Others think this is Orin's son, alive again that to a Superboy Punch.

"te versus (au + pb)"

This one is easy. Te = Tellerium, Au = Gold, and Pb = Lead. This refers to Steel vs the Metal Men.... Why, do you ask?

Tellerium's dominant use is in the manufacturing of stainless steel. Something else else else to note, Tellerium has some of the highest efficiencies for solar cell electric power generation. I'm thinking Supernova is steel.

Also, Tellerium happens to look like Tin.....so it could be a red herring.

"The old gods are dead and the new gods want what's left."

They've been telling us to look to the sky's whenever Fourth World characters were brought up for a long time now. I've suspected the mechanations of Apokolips for a while but this seems fairly blunt in the way of 'clues'. Anyone remember Legends? They had a heavy hand in that....right after the last Crisis.

"Secret Five!"

Well.....Parademon's dead so they are at five. Plus, Knockout is from Apokolips.

"Don't ask the question, it lies."

Ask him what, exactly? Dunno. But I've seen it mentioned elsewhere that he is NOT acting in character ("Elf needs food...badly!") and I've also seen it mentioned he could possibly be Ted Kord. And there is a sense of a twisted logic to it seeing as they are both Ditko Charleton characters...

"Imortal Savage"

Rip can build a time machine but he apparently can't spell....unless this has some other significance. Do our heros in space run into him? Or does this refer to Scandal who also is connected to Apokolips through her relationship with Knockout?

"The reach
the reach
the reach"

No idea.
No idea.
No idea.

I have seen theories that this refers to Ralph.

"I'm supposed to be dead?"

When? Where? Does this refer to Rip....or someone like Booster. Or could it be someone ressurected such as Conner or Sue?

"When am I?"

This implies he's lost in our time. So is he from the future? Or the past?

"Others?"

Man, talk about a 'Lost' reference. Is he referring to other time-related heroes? Or the original Forgotten Heroes? I think the latter.

Notes/Books/Papers around the room:

"What is Spanner's Galaxy?"

Never read this series. Anyone have any thoughts?

"Find the Sun Devils."

Dunno.

"Silverblade"
Out of continuity mini-series by Gene Colan. Thats about as much as I could find on the subject.

"Casey the Cop"

All I know is this is an OLD character...circa 1941. Also known as Clancy the Cop.

"Infinity Inc."

Yay!

"320 Kane"

3+2=5, 2+0=2.....5 2......

I have also seen this written as 520 Kane, which would be 52+0=52.

The magnet in Rip's lab. Anyone have any thoughts on this? What is the importance? Will the magenetic field be hosed in the future? It sure seems like a hint but I can't lock onto it.

Okay, now I'm going to get into my Egg Fu theory...I said yesterday I thought he was the main villain behind the missing scientiests. After rereading this issue again, I'm convinced it's him we side in the mission control area.

For those who aren't familiar with Fu, he was a originally a Wonder Woman villain created by CHINESE sleeper agents working for APOKOLIPS. Then he reprogrammed the Metal Men (who keep coming up, don't they?) Jonni DC, wiped him out from continuity and he has not been seen since. Please note that Jonni DC was reimagined from Johnny DC to a Continuity Cop in Giffen's Ambush Bug.

So, we have a Darkseid minion created by the Chinese with ties to continuity issues and the Metal Men, who with the clues above have ties to Steel.

I think it's been Fu under the direction of Darkseid who stole the scientists. For two reasons, the first being to create new superpowered beings (The Great Ten....) as superpowered human agents and the second to do whatever it was that has affected the timestream as part of Darkseid's larger plan. Obviously, it needs to be fleshed out more but that's the gist of it.
The one clue that tipped me to Egg Fu was Morrow cracking the egg, that was so odd, it had to be a clue.

Basically, Egg Fu is the Great One. One as in the numerical one....as in 1 through 10.

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Jamie

The Morrow egg cracking thing seems like it totally has to be a clue now that you've pointed it out. Could it really be Egg-Fu? Basically the only way Egg-Fu could ever be done right after being such a horribly racial caricature is if Grant Morrison had some way of making it right (he's about the only one I'd trust).

But the Fourth World/Egg-Fu/China/Black Adam's storyline connection seems like an interesting possibility.

There's just so much going on that's really intriguing. Some connections seem so obvious, but we really have no evidence yet, while the evidence we do have has no obvious answers. I like it.

My own theories:

'Find the last El' - referring to Supergirl, Kara Zor-El, sent through time?

'It hurts to breathe' - a Daxamite exposed to lead poisoning? Mon-El put in the Phantom Zone? B/t Rip, Booster and Kara, the possibilities are ripe for Mon and Dev-Em at this point.

"The reach the reach the reach" - Ralph regaining his powers?

"He won't smell it" - while possibly referring to Ralph, one shouldn't rule out Buddy Baker's animal smelling powers.

Did Mal say "It hurts to breathe" at one point?

Maybe in one of the Teen Titan flashbacks?

Coudn't 'the Curry heir' also be TEMPEST aka Garth aka the former AQUALAD? He's been missing for awhile, now.

Spoilers provided by Stratum:

SPOILAGE ahead, be ye warned!

Note-- I typed in responses within the spoiler. I'm not really sure if that's proper netiquette or not. Someone advise, please?

Sorry, if it's not.

<span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">
"The four horsemen will end her rain."

"Her rain"-- I can't think of one, but is there a DC heroine or villainess who controls weather?

Or is that metaphorical? As in rain meaning power, possibly not the homophonous 'reign', of some sort? If so, that could be referencing just about anything.

"Four Horsemen"-- Who might symbolize Death, Pestilence, War and Famine in the DCU?

Or, alternately, what four horse-riding/related characters could satisfy this clue? Shining Knight(s), GA Vigilante, Gentleman Ghost...

"Dead by lead."

Dev-em/Mon-el make sense. Or else Lead of the Metal Men will kill someone. Or Element Lad or Metamorpho or Dr. Alchemy...


"He won't smell it"

Ralph is what I thought of, too. But he never really 'smelled' things... it was more like Spidey-sense, wasn't it?

I wonder if 'rain', 'lead', 'Krytponite' and 'tellurium' are all referencing the same thing... some chemical or elemental attack.

"I'm not Kryptonite"

Maybe Rip believes he poses no threat to Superman-- or to Krypton survivors? Or that he isn't a strategem to be used like Luthor and others have often used Kryptonite?


"The Tornado is in pieces."

I wonder what is going on with the elemental part of the Red Tornado when he's incapacitated.

"It hurts to breathe..."

It definitely *does* sound familiar, Jamie. I'm thinking of fairly recent vintage, too. But I'm not placing it. Maybe something to do with someone getting a power recently?

Or more reference to a chemical/elemental attack?

"Where is the Curry heir?"

Or Tempest?

"The scarab is eternal."

The scarab was the symbol of resurrection to the Egyptians.

"te versus (au + pb)"

Though I think the Steel vs. the Metal Men is a very good guess and quite likely, I wonder if it's referencing something else.

Like a chemical attack?

"The old gods are dead and the new gods want what's left."

I really hope we haven't seen the last of the Olympians, assuming that's who is being referenced. What about Norse gods? Egyptian, Asiana and African pantheons? Native American spirits?

If it *isn't* the New Gods who 'want what's left (of what?)", maybe a new generation of heroes is being referenced?


"Secret Five!"

Quintessence? Some other alternative to the most likely answer of Secret Six minus Parademon?

"Don't ask the question, it lies."

Maybe this isn't about Vic Sage-- or whoever's wearing The Question's mask-- at all. Maybe someone'll be searching for answer to a question that is the wrong one for them to ask?

"Imortal Savage"

Rip Hunter is devolving! He's losing spelling here-- maybe he meant to write "I, mortal Savage..." and then devolved further before he could finish his thought. Are there any cavemen running around unaccounted for?

"The reach
the reach
the reach"

I thought of Luthor and his new drug or whatever it is that's supposed to turn anyone into a superhuman.


"I'm supposed to be dead?"

Notice this is a question. Is it lying?

"When am I?"

Which 'when' does he mean? His own personal timeline? Or the date? Or which alternate timeline?

"Find the Sun Devils."

I know about the old DC series. Is there also a DCU sports team with this name?

"Infinity Inc."

I'll see your yay and raise a yippee!

</span></span>

Your Egg-Fu theories are terrific ones! I think it'll take a *lot* of work for even writers like Morrison and Johns to pull off making that character credible.

Though I'm basing that judgment strictly on the John Byrne issues of WONDER WOMAN. I'm afraid I haven't read anything else featuring him. Was he a more... serious, for lack of a better word... entity elsewhere/when?

Te versus (au + pb):

Your Steel information is really fascinating Stratum and I like the Metal Men theory. One other way to look at it:

au = Gold --> Booster Gold?

pb = Lead --> able to poison Daxamites (Dev? Mon?)

Could this be the way Steel ties into Booster & Supernova's story? Or Booster will need lead to defeat the Daxamite Supernova (if its Mon--if its Dev, that ties to Ralph's story). And if Supernova is indeed a Daxamite, we have a tie to time travel and mysteries in space further exploring the wider tapestry of the story.

I'm going to guess the "hurts to breathe" thing is Aquaman related.