Legion World Forums LEGION COMPANION Dr. Gym'll's Cultural Rarities Lardy's Roundtable (Gym'll's Ed.): Grant Morrison

So with 14 people responding, the Top Five vote-getters were:

1) Guardians of the Galaxy & Justice Society of America (Tie: 5 votes apiece)

2) Green Lantern (4 and a half votes--I counted Abin's GL/GLC combo as half apiece)

3) The Walking Dead (4 votes)

4) Fables (3 votes)

That's an interesting result. I read 3 of these. Of the two I don't, I've recently acquired the Guardians issues, but haven't read them yet, and I plan on starting picking up the trades on Fables sometime in '09.

I'm curious...if you don't get any of these, is it possible that this result has piqued your interest in trying out any of them soon?

Okay, so let's turn the topic around....

...what titles (as many as five) that you are currently getting would be the easiest for you to drop right now?

(try to observe the rules of the other challenge..i.e. title isn't already known to be ending soon, etc.)

I'm not getting that many more than five - easiest to drop would be the irregular issues (Berlin and Mouse Guard - I even forget about them until they show up in my box) or the limited series (Atomic Robo and Umbrella Academy). I'd probably get those in TPB, though.

I'll probably check out Green Lantern, since it's been so well recommended. (The other one I'm going to pick up is Madame Xanadu, but mostly from comments made in the Vertigo titles thread. It didn't figure that strongly here.)

As someone looking to get less (and indeed get rid of 1/2 my comics) in anticipation of a big move... no.

1) Guardians of the Galaxy & Justice Society of America (Tie: 5 votes apiece)

Already get JSA (for the next month or three, anyway)

I'd probably eventually get GotG in TPB several years from now, if it holds up.

2) Green Lantern (4 and a half votes

As an old-time GL fan, I felt even more wrung through the ringer by the Owlsey/Emerald Yawn/Reign of the Supermen/Parallax/Spectre era than even the most gilted Legion fan could feel (LSH as a collective never went evil/crazy/undead/alcoholic etc).

I guess I felt so burned by prior GL runs that as good as this era might be it's hard to feign interest - I'd always be expecting the other shoe to drop. In 10 years, maybe I'll get the trades.

3) The Walking Dead (4 votes)

no interest at all.

4) Fables (3 votes)

I get this in trades already.

I certainly will always give my fellow LWers reccomendations a shot, and in fact have been doing that a whole lot more lately with great results. If not for Pov (Umbrella Academy), CJ & Scooter (Walking Dead), Blacula (Madame Xanadu), Reboot (Agents of Atlas) and so many others, I would be missing on out a bunch of stuff. And now Lardy, you will have contributed with Scalped, once I get a few moments to read it

Titles I could drop quickly? Well, some titles my father and I continue to get because in some instances one of us will decide its not worth getting anymore, but the other will want to keep getting it. For me:

(1) Hulk - worst Marvel comic I buy right now

(2) Teen Titans - this is the absolute lowest point in Titans history, worse than the 90's.

(3) All-Star Batman and Robin the Boy Wonder - I honestly only buy this because its a train wreck and I like Jim Lee's art. Its like buying something to see it crash and burn. So if it came down to it, no, I certainly don't need this comic. Frank Miller reaches the level of genius sometimes, but this is assuredly the worst comic book work he's ever done.

(4) Justice League of America - I can't understand how anyone can have enjoyed any of this relaunch. Sure, its a great line-up, and sure, the artwork is pretty spectacular, but I've yet to see even good storyline by Meltzer and even McDuffie, who I usually like.

(5) Astonishing X-Men - This has got to be the comic that both X-Fans and X-Strangers can agree is completely overrated, overhyped and outright boring.

Which ones would I drop? This was hard because I've just recently started picking up some new titles, many of which I haven't read any or enough of to form a decisive opinion, yet. So I tried to limit my choices to titles I've at least read three to five issues of.....

1) Runaways: Cheating a bit here because I picked up my last issue last week. But what a horrible disappointment this was! I'd heard many good things about Moore, and I'd enjoyed Ramos's art in the past--but UGH! I really miss Vaughn & Alphona.

2) Action Comics: NOT excited about the exits of Johns and Kal-El and the entrance of a new Nightwing and Flamebird. Who knows--it could be a fan-favorite run, but I don't know if I'm willing to take that chance.

3) Invincible Iron Man: There's absolutely nothing wrong with this title--it's very well-written and drawn, but I'm just not a big Tony Stark fan. If I were in a pinch or if Matt Fraction jumped off, I'd have no trouble dropping it. It's a good, good comic, though. Weird, huh?

4) Booster Gold: This is probably a knee-jerk reaction to an 4 awful issues of fill-ins after Johns and Katz left, and I haven't read the first Jurgens-written issue yet--but this title is in huge danger of running off the tracks. I'm hopeful that Jurgens can right the ship, but four issues of barfy fill-ins was a mistake!

5) Angel: After the Fall: They're really dragging out the "LA in Hell" storyline. Recent issues have had very little progress in the story. To me it's obvious Joss Whedon's hand is not as firm here as it is on Buffy's title. It's had his moments, but I can't help but think the story could've been told better in 10-12 issues.

It's tough to say... comics I would drop I usually do. There have been books I've held on too long. Case in point:

1: Green Arrow/Black Canary Winnick's work has been hot and cold before our heroes got married. Since then, it's been just meh. I hope the new writer can make it work.

2: GLC I put this on my faves list because Kyle Rayner is in it, and he's a favourite character. If he left the book, so would I.

3: RASL Jeff Smith has me very interested in the story. But the 6 months between issues makes me forget it's even on my reading list. I could drop it and collect in trade years from now and not feel like I missed something.

4: X-Factor PAD is giving me a good story, but the art is in constant flux. If Marvel doesn't care about the book, why should I?

5: The Authority The Wildstorm books get bad rap from their history. With the recent World End storyline, they've really taken a chance. That said, when DnA leave (left already) the book, I think this could be the weakest of the relaunches.

Five keepers:

1) Morrison/Quietley Batman As much as I liked RIP, I'm skipping Battle for the Cowl as it seems irrelevant, but if the rumours are true about Grant & Frank taking on Batman, I'll be there for that.

2) Hellblazer - Peter Milligan is consistently one of my favourite writers and if he can bring some of his old Vertigo magic back for this title, I'll be very happy.

3) Madame Xanadu - This has been a great read, and an interesting take on the character. Plus it's got that old Swamp Thing vibe, where DCU elements are blended in quite nicely with the adult storytelling.

4) Secret Six - while the first storyline is losing a bit of steam for me, I have faith Gail bring this title back up to it's awful goodness.

I'm at a loss for the fifth one. I'd Say Ambush Bug or Sub-Mariner, but those are both ending soon. I'm really on the fence about Willingham writing JSA, and may wait for the trade on Superman: Secret Origin.

I'm going to pass on this round. As I'm in school now, I recently dropped almost all my titles until I start working again (plan on buying back issues when I start working again).
So all told I dropped about 20 titles, maybe more.

5 easy drops...

BRAVE & THE BOLD... which I have JUST dropped...

TINY TITANS (it's cute and all, but if I had to...)

GREEN ARROW/BLACK CANARY... I can follow Dinah in JLA...

SHE-HULK... It just isn't the same post-Slott...

Hmmm... I may need to go check my pulls... BOOSTER GOLD is too fun to drop, JLA is a good way to keep track of many characters... BOP is already cancelled... it's likely between TITANS and TEEN TITANS... I'll go with...

TEEN TITANS... that damned 80s nostalgia keeps me with plain-TITANS...

Cool answers!

So, changing subjects...what is currently the best creative team on a title you enjoy that's currently being published? Please give us some insight about why you think so and how it might compare to other past creative teams you hold in high regard.

Even though they've only been a team for two issues, I have to say Andy Diggle and Roberto De La Torre, because Thunderbolts # 127 was one of those history-making great issues where words and pictures are so perfectly synchronized that it seems almost magical. They give the printed page the kind of excitement that I felt my early days of superhero comics from teams like Peter David & Dale Keown on Hulk or Bob Harras & Steve Epting on Avengers or, more recently, Peter David & Pablo Raimondi on the Madrox mini-series and (all-too-briefly) on X-Factor or DnA and Paul Pelletier on Guardians of the Galaxy. When writer(s) and artist are so in tune with each other you would think they're sharing one mind when they work, even though you know that they probably don't socialize with each other and might not have even met face-to-face.

Get Thunderbolts # 127 off the racks or as a back issue! Give it a chance!

Stealth, those are pretty big words considering just the two issues. Lotsa variables, including whether or not they will be together longterm. In this day and age, it's hard to keep a writer and artist together even for a whole story arc. Hopefully, Diggle and De La Torre will be one of those, going by your enthusiasm. Maybe I'll check 'em out....

There are definitely some good candidates out there on current or recent projects that I read: Geoff Johns has terrific collaborations with Ivan Reis on Green Lantern, Gary Frank on Action Comics and the upcoming Superman: Secret Origin, Scott Kolins on Flash, Rogues Revenge and the Solomon Grundy one-shot and George Perez on Legion of Three Worlds. Jason Aaron and R.M. Guera are making some magic on Scalped. Robert Kirkman has awesome collaborations with Charlie Adlard on Walking Dead and Ryan Ottley on Invincible.

Honestly, there are a lot more great teams out there than I thought there were. But it comes down to Ed Brubaker's books for me and how all three projects he's currently working on are instant classics borne of a special synergy with his artists. Who can dispute what he and Steve Epting have done on Captain America? And he has a long history with Michael Lark, dating back to Gotham Central and currently bearing fruit for us on a gripping run on Daredevil.

But it's Brubaker and Sean Philips who I think set the bar for other creative teams in the industry. From Sleeper to Criminal and now to Incognito, this duo has produced about 44 issues of some of the very best comics I've ever read. I'd never been a huge fan of "gritty" art before I encountered Sleeper, but their collaborations have really opened my eyes in appreciation. Their words and pictures complement each other perfectly. Sure, they've never done a straight superhero comic, but I bet if they did it would kick some serious ASS! Brubaker and Philips set the bar in a way that compares favorably to the best collaborations Frank Miller & Klaus Janson. I'd say they're the Miller and Janson of this era and could probably teach Frank and Klaus a few tricks!

I tend to follow writers more than teams, but anything by Brubaker and Philips is going to get my attention (and quite likely my money) simply because they've captivated me with everything they've done so far. At first, I didn't like Philips' art, but it's grown on me and it has a distinctive style. I don't think Brubaker's crime stories would have the same feeling drawn by anyone else at this point.

Another team that makes me sit up and take notice is Morrison and Quitely. I haven't chased down everything they've done, but All Star Superman, We3, Flex Mentallo stand out from the crowd.

I can't think of a writer/artist team I follow, but Simone and Scott are making me take notice. They were great on BOP and are amazing on Secret Six. Given time, these two will be a force to know in the comics world. Simone writes characters from iconic to twisted, funny through romantic, and Nicola Scott has managed to draw it all.

Like FC, I tend to follow writers more than teams, though some artists will get me to buy their books too. In fact, I'd say the Darwyn Cooke/Darywn Cooke team is probably my favorite

But to answer the question, probably right now I'd say DnA with Paul Pelletier. I've always liked DnA a real lot (and hey, I was one of the original posters who named them DnA in the first place!), but I don't think their Legion run was the greatest thing ever like some people--I'd call it 'great' but not 'one of the greatest'. Well, with everything they've done at Marvel in the last 3-4 years, I can now throw that notion away, because what they are doing now is some of the greatest stuff they've ever done, some of the greatest stuff in comics in general, and some of the greatest science-fiction space opera ever in comics. They are peaking right now, and have hit a level where they're just firing on all cylinders. Everything from pacing, to dialogue, to grand plots, to small character moments, to using very different characters interactin to their advantage is just so good I can't help but eat it up. And I especially like how they balance a solo title (Nova) with a team book (Guardians of the Galaxy), and I think War of Kings has the potential to be incredible.

Paul Pelletier is their partner on GotG, and he's an artist I've followed for years, since the mid-90's. His runs on Flash, Green Lantern (with Kyle) and the 90's Outsiders book (which hey, I thought was pretty groovy) were awesome because of his art. Then he went through a phase where it seemed like he wasn't really doing much, but then suddenly popped up at Crossgen with Negation and reminded everyone why he's an A-lister artist. Now he's made it over to Marvel and with DnA giving him a wide range of charaters and situations, he's really showing what a tremendous talent he is.

So in effect you have probably the best science-fiction team of authors in comics teaming up with one of the best science-fiction artists in comics, and they're just knocking it out of the park. While War of Kings is running, Pelletier is joining DnA there while another artist fills in for him on GotG, but that's cool with me, because I'm buying both and I'd like to see him draw the Inhumans and the Vulcan/Shi'ar characters along with everyone else.

Its a little hard to find a comparison that I really think works, because I won't be obvious and say something like Stan Lee/Jack Kirby, which this team is nothing like. Because DnA are so specific and almost clinical in their delivery of every bit of the story, they remind me slightly of the greats Edmond Hamilton or John Broome who were masters at story-telling, pacing and using science-fiction to the stories advantage. Meanwhile, Pelletier's art is explosive and adds a lot of 'oomph' and action to some low level action sequences, giving the book a charge of energy even during dialogue sequences, so in that respect he does have hints of that Kirby style that Walt Simonsin, Neal Adams or even Todd McFarlane have. Not that his art looks anything like theirs, which it doesn't, but it has that same type of high-energy to it. In fact, his art is very pleasing on the eyes, while all those other guys don't always have that...Pelletier makes his characters full of emotion and yet also very atractive, which is a very modern combination of past styles.

So in other words, they are rocking right now, and definitely on my radar as one hell of a combination. I picked up the War of Kings mini-series entirely on the basis of their involvement.

When I think of Pelletier, the main artist that leaps in my mind for comparison's sake would be Alan Davis. I'm not saying at all that Pelletier is an Alan Davis knockoff, but their styles remind me of each other in a way. A very clean, yet dynamic style that harkens back to Perez and Byrne while simultaneously having a modern, progressive feel to it.

I'm happy for Paul and how he's finally getting his due. Yes, he got some attention for Negation specifically, but being the artist on a big Marvel event is certainly a big step up. And certainly Guardians has to be one of the very biggest "buzz" books in all of comics.

And, wow, DnA! In the past few weeks I've read their entire run to date on Nova (including the Annihilation mini), and I am beyond impressed. I never gave a lick one way or another about the character before, but now, I'm a fan because of this great writing team and a number of talented artists they've worked with.

Guardians, I've only read the first two issues, but own all the rest except, frustratingly, issue three (the second printing copy I obtained of issue three had the contents of an issue of Ultimates 3 inside instead--YUCK! ), so I'm waiting to fill that one-issue gap before I proceed further. But those two issues sure are groovy!

I, too, am buying War of Kings because of DnA's (and Paul's) involvement. As good as their Legion work was, they've MAJORLY outdone themselves with their recent work at Marvel!

If we're talking writers... I would follow DnA anywhere. From ForceWorks to Legion to Shadowman to GotG, they manage to make each book distinct. They defined USAgent and Monstress, brought creepy to Legion and Shadowman; they know how to tailor a book and make it distinct.

For that matter, GrayPal are of similar caliber. They made Hawkman soar after Geoff Johns left. They knock it out of the park each month with Jonah Hex. Justin Gray and Jimmy Palmiotti have written some of the best characters in some of the lesser known books at both Marvel and DC.

I'd follow either team to any book they write.

Hm, one topic I'm interesting in is what current non-superhero comics are people reading that they're really digging. Anyone whose paid attention to my posts on Legion World in the last (6) months has seen I've gone out of my way to pick up things like different war comics, pure science-fiction comics like Dan Dare, and I'm a huge supporter of Jonah Hex and a large portion of the entire Vertigo line.

Don’t get me wrong, I love superhero comic books. In fact, I buy most of the DC and Marvel superhero titles and always have. Know my Dad and I buy at least 50 superhero comics from Marvel and DC alone. But lately I feel that so many creators, particularly at DC, are just getting the superhero genre all wrong, and so I’m enjoying a further branchout into other genres.

In fact, I’d say the current non-superhero comics I’m buying are (likely I’ll leave something out):

Vertigo
House of Mystery
Fables
Scalped (in trades)
Madame Xanadu
Unknown Soldier
Haunted Tank
Young Liars
Northlanders – trying it out

DC
Jonah Hex
SGT Rock

Icon / Marvel
Criminal
Incognito
Powers
Dark Tower comics

Dynamite Entertainment
Battlefields: The Night Witches (and will get other Garth Ennis war comics)

Image
Waking Dead
Four Eyes
Mice Templar
Armed Forces

Dark Horse
Umbrella Academy? – this might count as a superhero comic

IDW
Fallen Angel (PAD’s masterpiece)

Other
Atomic Robo – I will get to this in the thread once I read it. Lets say I came late to the party and plan to rectify the situation. Less Pov come down to casa de Cobalt and give me a spanking.

I’m also drawn lately to comics that are more ‘something else’ than superheroes. For example, DnA’s Nova and Guardians of the Galaxy are far more science-fiction than superhero books and that’s why they’re so good lately. I wish the Legion would get back to that slightly (hell, I wish Superman would get back to that). The Spirit is a crime comic, pure and simple, but I have to admit its been pretty lackluster since Cooke left. Marvel seems to have really gone all out in making some of their traditional superhero comics more outside the superhero genre: Thor, Incredible Hercules, Agents of Atlas, the aforementioned Nova & Guardians of the Galaxy, Skaar Son of Hulk and a few others are all able to stand apart from the typical superhero fair and give us something different. Captain America is basically a spy book and Daredevil is essentially a crime comic, so those have a nice niche too.

I’ve also picked up some random things: (1) Chuck Dixon’s war comic by Wildstorm, but I’m not sure if I’ll finish the series as it was ‘okay’ thus far; (2) Dan Dare, which was a blast but is currently over (and may now resume at IDW), (3) Skaar, Son of Hulk, which was pretty good but I don’t know if I’ll go back for more. Maybe, as I bought more than half the series.

That's a really excellent point, Des! I'm finding that a lot of the superhero comics I'm enjoying the most are also "something else". Obviously the Legion is a prime example of a superhero/sci-fi hybrid that I've enjoyed a lot. To your list, I'd add Booster Gold, which is based steeply in the sci-fi/time travel genre as much or more than it is a superhero book. And of course, Green Lantern and GLC have a lotta space opera genre going for them as well. And don't forget Iron Fist and how it's waaaay more a Kung Fu genre book than it is a superhero book!

I'd say over 70 % of the superhero comics I get are not pure superhero books and have that "something else" going for them. So I'd say the two biggest common denominators most of the comics on my pull list share is: 1) they tend to be "something else" either in addition to a superhero book or without any superhero trappings in some cases, and 2) they tend to be insular, meaning they're pretty much standalone and cross-over free.

Off the top of my head, I'd say the most purely superhero titles I read now are Invincible Iron Man, Justice Society, the Superman titles and Kirkman's Invincible.

Also off the top of my head, the titles on my current pull-list that are superhero-free are:

Walking Dead
Scalped
Criminal (I'm not sure Incognito belongs on this list)
Buffy Season 8
Angel: After the Fall
Crossed (Avatar Press)

It's not a very long list right now, but I can see it beginning to expand greatly as the year goes on, and I discover new books.

Yeah, I'd say the super-hero books I'm enjoying these days that aren't heavily weighted in some other genre are few and far between. I totally agree that Green Lantern and GLC are VERY science-fiction oriented these days, and while Booster Gold is very super-hero-ish, the time travel aspect does allow for an even sci-fi/superhero level, which really works for the title.

Probably the pure superhero comics I'm enjoying are the ones you mention with some others (Spider-Man, Blue Beetle).

A major part of the Silver Age that differentiates it from other ages is that it was so heavily based in science-fiction, and to a lesser degree, crime & war comics. Its pleasantly surprising to see we're in an era where the same applies to a certain degree right now. I realized this recently when I was looking at the comics I'm most enjoying. I certainly wouldn't mind the Superman books being more science-fiction based and Iron Man going off a little more to specific niche.

And your point about the best current comics being 'insular' is well said. That's 100% true, and makes each comic much more enjoyable. Even though Captain America, GotG and Green Lantern Corps reference continuity, they pretty much stand alone, and show a spectacular example of how to work well in a shared universe and maintain a strict individual identity.

Definitely, Marvel has left Brubaker alone on his books. Cap, Daredevil and Iron Fist haven't had so much as a Secret Invasion banner on them! The closest his titles got was when Cap sported an "Initiative" banner on them immediately after Cap's death. But really, Bru did his own thing to enhance his storyline even in those issues. He obviously has some pull over there, and Marvel is wise to let him just work his magic.

I'm hoping Fractions Invincible Iron Man won't suffer too much as it ties into Dark Reign. The first issue was decent, so we'll see what happens there.

And two of Marvel's most enjoyable comics, Nova and Incredible Hercules, really used crossovers to tell excellent fairly self-contained stories. Hercules had that great "God Squad" arc where Herc and a crew of demigods go to take on the Skrulls gods. Nova had crossovers with Annihilation: Conquest and Secret Invasion that were well done. The former was more of a side story that was more about Richard dealing with the transmode virus and finding something to use against the Phalanx. The latter was set at Project P.E.G.A.S.U.S. nad helped to set up the current storyline featuring the rebirth of the Nova Corps.

From what I've heard most of the other SI crossover books were tied in very directly and much more enslaved to the basic premise. That's definitely not my bag.

It's good that Final Crisis didn't have such and all-encompassing effect on the DCU. In general I prefer standalone supporting minis to crossovers in the actual ongoings. Given all the delays with FC that could've been very diastrous to an already-faltering DC line.

I'm excited, but also a little trepidatious, about Blackest Night. It's supposed to be on a much larger scale than the Sinestro Corps War was, involving more titles if I understand correctly. Hopefully, whatever happens, the story won't get too convoluted and spread too thin. We'll see!

Ladry, I was curious about your creators question, what with the impending change on JSA.

I wonder how many readers will drop the book when Johns leaves. Will it be because of the upcoming writers, or is that just a reason for dropping a book you've not been interested in? How many will add it to their list with Willingham and Stugris writing it (ME!)?

Marvel has Dan Slott taking over Mighty Avengers. Will that book see a drop in readers because it's not Bendis? Will someone add it because of Slott (Not me)?

Can a book gain/lose your interest with a creative shuffle? With a title consistently losing readers, would a change in creative teams help a failing title? Does it have to be a name you know or can an unknown garner your favour?

You'll find my answer in the All Avengers Thread.