Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Long Live the Legion! Let's Talk About LSH #4 (potential spoilers)...

I thought that was just a joke. It implied that Light Lass picked Star Boy off the ground after he had gotten knocked out during the fight. She assumed that he was knocked out by the SP and thinks that he needs to learn how to fight better. But, as it turns out, Colossal Boy's elbow hit him.

That was the joke, as far as I could tell.

jimgallagher said:

well, there are plenty of aliens that appear in background scenes. Presumably many live there for various reasons, and it seems reasonable that many would have their families there as well. It's possible that Gim was born on Earth, the son of members of a race of giants from another planet who have settled on Earth for one reason or another. So he's technically born on Earth, but still a Jovian or whatever they end up calling his forebear's world. For example, preboot, Rokk was born on Earth but still a Braalian - his level of power was tied to his having been Earthborn iirc, but Braal was still what he considered home.

The problem remains that if Gim's default state is the giant one, then he and anyone else from his race would have to exert constant effort to stay Earth sized. So this would make it rather difficult for the giant race to settle on Earth and operate and interact with normal sized humans. They would need wide open spaces where they wouldn't cause a lot of trouble when at their normal giant size. Maybe they tend to be farmers or something like that - it fits Gim's reimagined image.

but the listing of his homeworld as Earth could still be a mistake, or a clue that Gim's lying about his origins, either for some innocent reason, or perhaps something more devious, such as hiding some SP connection just as Lyle did this issue.

basil

Maybe his folk inhabit a magic island that appears on Earth only during certain periods.

That's how I read it too. Remember, this Star Boy has some pretty bad luck. He probably hears that same line from Ayla or the others all the time.

Or maybe Gim just decided to give up his citizenship on his homeplanet and is now an 'earthling'. I would assume nationality changes are still prevalent in the 31st Century.

Then again, maybe his race is a legendary one and they can't give it away.

I'm wasn't nearly as enthusiastic about this issue as Don MacPherson of TheFourthRail, who named it Best of the Week , but I'll try to focus on the positive.

- I missed Barry's artwork but Kirk did a fine job overall. Gibbon's figures seemed rather stiff, imo.

- The main story was well executed. A lot of plot and characterization was delivered in 22 pages, including a satisfying personality and backstory for Lyle. DC Direct had better get on the ball and start mass-producing that Legion backpack!

- Brainy and Lyle make a great team. Brainy's arrogance and sarcasm play well off of Lyle's callow youth and uncertainty.

- Cos needs a pill. If the Legion is so screwed up, then it's partly his own fault. Threatening Lyle like that was so uncool. At least he didn't slap the kid, and made up for it with an act of kindness at the end.

- I enjoyed the bit with Chameleon and Colossal Boy. I won't even speculate about C.B.'s Earth origin, it's that bizarre. Poor, battered Star Boy evokes my maternal instincts. Hope he has a chance to be heroic without killing himself.

- Sad to say, after his memorable debut in issue #1, I'm beginning to lose interest in Sun Boy. And I used to be madly in love with this guy!

- Karate Kid was well served by the backup story. He's light years more appealing than the preboot macho jerk or the tiresome posboot monk. But Euramerican?

- Tinya didn't fare as well as KK, imo. I just don't get Waid's motivation for tweaking her powers in this way. It's a clever one-time joke, but serves only to inhibit the character in the future. One more gripe --- Tinya used to be funny, sassy and rebellious in the olden days, but there's still no sign of these qualities in the new version. If "Mom" is Winema, I hope the old witch doesn't share her daughter's ability to bridge dimensions.

- "Punchus Interruptus". "Brainframe". Waid's language tends to be convoluted sometimes, but there are also little gems like this.

- Praetor Lemnos -- red herring, perhaps, but also bathed in red light. What *is* Waid up to??

- After so many scenes in the bowels of Legion HQ, I'm beginning to feel claustrophobic, so I was excited to learn of the "black and vile" happenings on the rimworlds. Maybe the next issue will have some REAL old fashioned Legion action and adventure!

Okay, so I have to ask. Did no one like how Waid slipped in yet another homage to Legions past? Lyle saying the unique properties of Lyle Norg, all in one little vial got to me big time. I'm a sucker for the Chemical King Secret Origins story.

Jim Gallagher, I think we might be related. You have posted my thoughts about every issue so far before I could post them. Lay off the telepathy, ok?

Sorry, Lance. I'll try to stop picking your brain. Let's see if you were thinking what I forgot to post before.

Rokk's penchant for lashing out with his magnetic powers and destroying architecture and equipment in Legion HQ seem pretty counter productive and immature to me, especially for Legion leader. Seems to me Brainy could dethrone him based on his destructive tendencies alone.

As for the retweaking of everyone's powers, I realize that Waid is trying to make some of the "everyone from my planet has this power" members more unique, but in TG's case, she's gone from everyone on Cargg having Lu's power to everyone on Cargg BEING Lu. Not exactly what I would call unique. At least she doesn't have the split personality and multiple colored costumes and eyes, though I did like Triad's costume better than Triplicate Girl's new one.

As someone else alluded to, the girls have been severely depowered overall in this boot. With Lightning Lass reverting to Light Lass, Shadow Lass being depowered to her former levels and the exclusion of Supergirl/Andromeda, none of the girls really has much umph. Their powers are all pretty passive.

Light Lass could be used more effectively. I wish the writers at DC would get a clue that her power gives her the equivalent of super strength (why did Ultra Boy have to carry the robot head back to HQ? She could've done it herself) and possibly even super breath. Imagine her turning a bad guy super light weight and then blowing him away. The only girl with any really dynamic possibilities is Princess P, who seems to be in hiding.

I suspect Saturn Girl is the next girl on the list to be depowered given that she practically HAD Jeckie's power of illusion in the previous continuity. Or is it SG's power of delusion I'm thinking of?

LOL. Scott, it just so happens that RTVU2 and I had an exchenge of PMs yesterday about that exact subject.

I think I finally realized why this issue didn't really cut the mustard for me, aside from Barry's absence. I simply had no empathy for any of the three leads in the main story. Brainy's conniving, Cos' bullying and IK's cringing left me without a rooting interest in the outcome.

Also, I know it's still early yet but out of 4 issues we've only really had about one "villain" that I can recall, the assassin from issue two. It wouldn't seems so bad if the last several years of the Zero Hour team hadn't been so lacking in colorful foes as well.

I really like this issue. The "unique properties" line that Lyle says is my favorite part of issue. That line is so unexpected and cool that it brought a HUGE smile to my face. Lyle has always been my most favorite Legionnaire and the Chemical King story in Secret Origins is one of my most favorite Legion tales.

Finally read Legion of Super-Heroes #4.

I liked it well enough but its definitely the weakest of the issues we've had so far IMO. Shame too 'cause I was really looking forward to this one for some reason.

My main gripe is that there has been next to NO exciting action whatsoever in this whole series. IMO the only scenes that would come even close to being a vaguely exciting action scene were the short bits in #2 with the UP terrorist and Val and Tasmia's fight with the pre-cog cops. All the other fight scenes have been completely drained of tension either because of who the Legion was fighting (like anything bad was going to happen in a fight with the Science Police) or because running dialogue over the top of the fighting distracted from it (as in #1) or both! I'm a huge fan of character development but please Waid - I need some excitement too!

Other points :

* The cookies scene was extremely hokey, but maybe it was meant to be?

* Gim's homeworld - I'm sure Earth is just an error (and hope so too) but I guess we'll see.

* Gim's complaints about being called 'Colossal Boy' are becoming this version's "Think Fast"! Sure it was cute at first but its getting *really* old now. Enough please.

* I liked the old-school way the alien-form Chameleon changed into was name and power-checked. How long has it been since that happened?

* I liked the gag about Gim elbowing Thom in the face.

* This Lemnos character came out of nowhere and didn't do much for me. Is he a villain? Just another supporting character? A much-loved Legionnaire rebooted? Either way, I found his look and personality boring and that worries me because I'm sure he's the man in the centre of Nura's vision.

* I like the idea of Querl and Lyle being friends and am looking forward to seeing that relationship develop.

* The ending of the main story was too saccharine for me. Where's Dagon the Avenger when you need him?

* The back up story was better IMO. Loved Gibbons' art and enjoyed the spotlight on Val and Tinya (whom I'd love to see hook up). The 'Euramerican' line was interesting. I took it to mean that this Val is Hispanic or something. He certainly looks more Latin than Asian in this issue. Tinya's power tweaking didn't bother me as much as it did others but I guess I'll have to wait and see how it plays out.

All in all I'd give this issue a C+. Big time looking forward to the next one now!

I just looked at the central image in Nura's dream from # 2 and compared it to the image shown to Lightning Lad in # 3 and Lemnos in # 4. Whereas you can't see those facial markings in issue 3, I'm also certain that Lemnos is the figure in Nura's dream (unless those facial markings are fairly common, which we haven't seen much of yet, except for Bilis in the preview). Not sure what it means as I'm not that thrilled with Lemnos as a caracter yet, then again there hasn't been much to see. Curious for more development, though.

Can't wait for issue 5. Barry, we miss you!

The opening scene harkened back to a similar sequence from LEGION #28 (Levitz Baxter run) with the Kallors on Xanthu--including cookie jokes. Has it been stated that this Star Boy is Thom? Been mulling the concept that Star Boy is now James Cullen, and that Thom Kallor will ultimately appear as the subject of the "Atmos" project. The story itself was a nice spotlight on Lyle, as he remains as brillant as ever. With the warnings that we will soon not know which side to pull for I still can't quite shake the feeling that the Legion's leader is an impostor of sorts...

One general comment: This series so far seems to be a whole lot of set up, but little actually happening. I imagine when the war hits we'll see a change of pace, but right now the set up doesn't work in terms of building towards something - we've known since the seven page preview that there's trouble brewing on the rim worlds and that the UP is oppressive towards the young. We just seem to get more info to reinforce what we know, but I can't help but feel we're a still missing a lot. For instance, the fact that we don't know how the Legion was founded makes me feel like we're in the middle of a story where I'm not even fully aware of the reasons why this story is happening or why I should care.

I know Waid will address all this in time but honestly, I don't feel like I'm actually seeing much happen (hints that won't pay off til months from now don't count).

I liked this issue a lot--though I think #3 is still my favorite. Brainy was warmer than we've seen him before, and Lyle was very sympathetic. I won't repeat the stuff I said on the Calling the Roll thread, but suffice to say he's a damn smart kid with, nonetheless, a lot to learn.

I was very intrigued by the Cos/Brainy/Lyle interaction. On the one hand, it could just be showing that Brainy has a better side when he's not cooped up alone with Cos, and that there are valid reasons to question Cos' leadership.

On the other hand...it was Brainy who concealed Lyle's parentage and then dropped it on Cos at a moment of maximum stress, when Lyle was standing in the room, ensuring a blowup. It was Brainy who, with a couple of mild-sounding comments, goaded Cos into repeatedly reasserting his authority--reminiscent of Lyle's control-freak dad--and seeming incapable of coming up with a plan besides "punch things while Lyle does something smart." And it was Brainy who praised Lyle so lavishly afterwards, while Cos was still dressing him down.

Was the whole scene orchestrated by Brainy to cement Lyle's loyalty to him? The possibility appeals to me. If this Brainy's going to be more Vril-Doxian for the long haul, I want him to have a talent for that role. And even if this turns out not to work that way, kudos to Waid for making me hover between two very different interpretations of Brainy's mindset here.

Light Lass's power may not include inertia removal this time around, just gravity reduction. Physics-wise it'd be harder to use it offensively if it did reduce inertia, since a super-light-weight enemy really ought to gain proportional superspeed.

Gravity reduction itself could be a heavy-hitting power, though, if it goes all the way to positive anti-gravity (as Ayla's seems to do.) In this issue Light Lass and Star Boy were supposed to work together to take apart opponents' armor, suggesting that she can push up as hard as he can push down. If she can basically hurl enemies into the stratosphere, I won't complain about her being "passive"...

OK, I give up. I don't have a great Legion memory and have no idea of the past Lemnos you're talking about. Could someone please give a sentnece or two about him?

About the issue, I like the first part, but I didn't care for the Phantom Girl redo. It seems like Waid's turning these origins into writing exercises to see how clever he can be without thinking about what he's doing. The other times she's shown doing important things at home, she's see-through here, and it looks like it's set up so she can't appear solid in both places at once. But then she does at the end.

And how can Legion HQ and this club that's who know's how far away both exactly conform to the rooms and seating arrangements of her house on Btgzl, or does geography not matter as she phases back and forth? I kind of liked the Triplicate Girl origin, but he totally lost me on this one.

The reference to a previous incarnation of Lemnos would be, I believe, "Legionnaire Lemon." Lemon is an anagram for a very popular legionnaire.

I thought about this as well (it also looks to me like Tinya and Jarel are standing). Could it be that she's capable of traveling in one dimension at a time? When she's walking around in our world (solid feet), she's walking in place in her room etc...? who knows. The whole thing seems very problematic to me too, but I guess we shouldn't examine it too closely.

I hope so - otherwise it would make space travel rediculously dangerous for her, because if she loses concentration, or just wants to go intangible she ends up in a vacuum.

The issue 4 is weak, slow and bored.
These guys are not my Legion.
Depowered heroes like Jam, Shady.
Members missing like Projectra, Violet, Saturn Girl.
Sorry, but these are my feelings.
The Legion dead in the horrible Zero Hour saga.
The reboot could' been good, but too much changes and mistakes (Sensor Snake, Gim death, Evil Jam,Zombie Zoe, Super Silly-Nun Andy)
And now all is different...
Luornu origin, Blonde Dirk, another Star Boy...
I think this time, DC could put The Legion on the top.
I wrong. They do ti again...
Or maybe in the next crisis I see a hope.
For now only the Barry Kitson's artwork is a good thing.

Didn't one scene show her apparently lying on her back in mid-air? The other half of that scene was that she was lying down on something in her home dimension and making out with her boyfriend. Whatever she does in one world is seen as something strange in the other.

Well, I think there's not any doubt that the Tinya story was weak, from a logical standpoint.

Does she take showers naked in the middle of the courtyard? If so, that's got to be a popular daily moment for the male groupies outside. Does she go to the bathroom... just... anywhere? And if she wants to go home and sit in her room, does she always have to sit in that booth in the club? Sloppy, sloppy, sloppy. And I hate that this is the backbone of her characterization thus far.

Not to mention that such a kick-ass fighter is shown doing such GIRLY things in her home reality. Picking flowers. Having a Patsy Walker moment with her boyfriend. Yelling down at her mother from her room. Just... ick.

Those who know me know that Tinya has always been my very favorite. Now, with this characterization, I may have to update that feeling. Maybe Waid will find a way to move her into the strong-willed, forthright Tinya I know. I don't have much hope, as it seems Light Lass is channeling Tinya's spirit for this Waidboot. But I shouldn't be surprised, as Tinya has a long history of being tortured by comic writers. Let's see... she's been killed off-panel, displaced in time, fricasseed by a Daxamite, become an insubstantial wraith, was impersonated by... you-know-who ...

As for the main story, it was mildly interesting. The stuff with Dirk's parents was so sugary that it practically gave me a cavity, so I can see how it would irritate him. The relationship between Brainy and Cos continues to interest. The pace of the story seemed slow, for some reason I can't put my finger on. It also felt a bit inconsequential as part of a larger arc, but there is always the possibility of groundwork being laid (Lemnos, the invisibility serum, hell, even the cookies) that will pay off in a few issues, so I'm willing to give Waid the benefit of the doubt.

Certainly, as a standalone ish, it was my least favorite thus far.

I hate to be mean to the other capable artists, but compared to Barry's work... let's just say I won't be taking this ish out of my Legion longbox much. The art was just fine... but Barry Kitson is playing to a different tune on this series thus far.

NEXT ISSUE: THE HUSSY COMETH!