Legion World Forums LEGION COMPANION Dr. Gym'll's Cultural Rarities Avengers Dissassembled: Reactions to the first 22 pages of #500 on page 3

The Avengers is one of my all-time favorite comic books, and I have so many fond memories and so much nostalgia for it, I'll be an Avengers fan for life. I have so many favorite
Avengers characters, that I get giddy with delight when they're done right.

I'm looking forward to Bendis' run, b/c I think Bendis is a great, great writer and I enjoy almost everything he does. Although Marvel seems to have a variety of writers copying his style of long pages of dialogue to fit it's TP format, I still think that Bendis, who really starting this trend at Marvel with Kevin Smith, is able to do this very well. IMO, Daredevil is Marvel's best book right now (even better than Supreme Power, which I love), and I like U:ASM and his other stuff a lot too.

But I'm worried about a few things:

1. I get this strange premonition that Hank Pym will go bad or be the reason for whatever is about to happen. Please don't let this be so. Hank and Jan are two of my favorite characters, and I don't want Hank written as a jerk anymore. I want to see him as a hero, and I hope that the main MU can make him as different as the Ultimate universe as possible.

2. I don't want my favorites to die. And once again, I'm worried about Hank Pym. I have a feeling that Hawkeye, Scarlet Witch, Vision and Wasp WON'T die, since they are very unique to the Avengers and fan favorites. But since it's assured that at least some characters will die, I'm hoping that Hank (and Black Knight, my other fave) doesn't die.

I'd still buy and possibly love the series if a major character dies, but I'm really worried about Hank. After all these years, he's the one major Marvel silver-ager who continually gets shafted and no respect. Not to mention that he's my Dad's favorite character when he was a boy, which makes me even more fond of the character.

3. I don't want Wolverine, Electra or Luke Cage in the Avengers. Please no. 'Nuff said.

Despite all these worries, I am still very much looking forward to this event. I want the Avengers, and with them Cap, Thor and Iron Man to be Marvel's flagship titles, so that Marvel is not just all about the X-Men and Spidey.

Ultron's turning up. Of COURSE it's going to be Hank's fault

I suspect that they will pull a switch of some kind. We will see Yellow Jacket die, but it will be Scott Lang having taken Hank's place in an effort to protect him by confronting Ultron in his place.

"Golly, your a super smart scientist and I'm just a reformed petty thief. You deserve to live much more than I do."

After Scott dies, Hank will revert back to his Ant Man identity. He & Jan will then get re-married and adopt and raise Scott's daughter.

Marvel just released solicits for August.

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I don't remember all the particulars of the DISASSEMBLED hype, but weren't at least one of the deaths supposed to happen right away?

If I'm remembering right, then Hank Pym and the Scarlet Witch surive the opening salvo. Both characters are mentioned in August's solicits, and are, in fact both guest-starring in the same book. CAPTAIN AMERICA AND THE FALCON #6 features one hero helping to cure a virus or something, and the other in a liplock with Cap. I'll leave it to your imagination to guess which one does what...

TN

Hank and Cap finally out of the closet together? Well, I guess it was inevitable. But how is Wanda going to...oooooooooooooh. Oops...

Ick. Scarlet Witch and Captain America? NOT a couple I had any interest in seeing.

And I'm not very optimistic about the outcome of disassembled. I think that, at the very least, Spider-Man is joining the Avengers. I'm sorry, but Spidey is not a team player, and is not one of my favorite characters.

I have a feeling that my 25 year run of collecting the Avengers is about to come to an end

Mine too, Cru.

Try to stay positive!

I know it's hard though...we'll just have to see what happens, although I'm worried too...

At least we have SOME idea of what they're doing with the Avengers over at Marvel.

Friggin' DC seems perfectly content to leave us Legion fans in the lurch...

I know it seems ironic that I'm wanting to drop AVENGERS because of the roster overhaul... I mean, AVENGERS *began* the whole "old order changeth" stuff back when all the originals quit and Cap inducted 3 villains onto the team!

But when I became an AVENGERS fan, 2 of those villains had been heroes for nearly a decade already and I didn't find out about their shady past until much later.

For me, THE AVENGERS is Cap, Thor, Iron Man, Scarlet Witch, Vision, Hawkeye, Wasp and Hank (in whatever guise).

A few characters have actually teamed with them and become AVENGERS in my eyes... like Mantis, Hellcat, The Beast, Ms. Marvel/Warbird, She-Hulk, Black Widow, The Falcon and Wonder Man.

But more-- such as Deathcry, Crystal, Sersi, Starfox, Moondragon, Namor, Triathalon, Jack of Hearts, Spider-Man-- these guys never seemed like AVENGERS to me and never will. I enjoyed the book less when it focused on these characters.

And I just won't read an AVENGERS book that doesn't include a healthy dose of the (to me) primary Avengers characetrs I listed above.

Elektra? Daredevil? Wolverine? BAH!!!

I mean, even Rob Liefeld knew enough to use the "primaries" and even brought in (a version of) Hellcat.

Despite the flaws of his issues-- and there were plenty-- they were FULL of color and energy.

I have a feeling this new roster is gonna have next-to-zero color and energy.

Did you like that story when you finally read it? I thought it was great when I finally got my hands on reprints of those issues featuring 'Cap's Kooky Quartet'.

I remember that every time I see any combination of those characters together.

I'd add Black Panther to that list. And maybe Photon.

All of those, yes, except maybe Warbird... since she seems like more of a solo character to me.

I'm surprised you don't include Moondragon on your other list. She was an Avenger in the same time period as Beast, Wonder Man and Hellcat. Is it the extreme Saturn Girl rip-off factor?

I think you know how I feel about Crystal... I wish she'd be given another stint in Avengers' Mansion. Though I admit 'her' period of the team's history wasn't the best. I liked it more thany most, I think. Namor works as an Avenger, too, if Thor's not around (that's just way too much arrogance to have both). Starfox is fun, I think. Everyone else on your list I'd agree about.

We've all got lists like that in our heads, I think. If we're honest.

Now, now... your inner supervillain is showing...

TN

Todd, yes, I'd certainly include Black Panther in my list of primaries... there's been so many Avengers, it can be tough to list 'em all.

I like Crystal, but to me, she is FANTASTIC FOUR family, through-and-through, probably due to the FF reprints I collected and loved as a kid. (remember when Marvel reprinted old Avengers & FF monthly? *sigh*) INHUMANS too, of course. Didn't mean to give the impression I didn't like her. Love her AND Medusa.

As for Cap's Kooky Quartet-- the only AVENGERS archive I own is the one reprinting issues 12-20, so I could have their earliest appearances on the team!

Oh, and re: Moondragon; she was just so cold and unlikable and really didn't interact with anybody other than Thor much, so I just don't see her as an Avenger... although I *love* the period in which she was a member.

I know... but what are the chances she's going to show up in FF? I doubt Sue's going to get pregnant again and if she did, I'd bet it'd be She-Hulk that'd get pulled in for sub-duty. Sigh.

Come to think of it, all but one of the FF have been Avengers, too, at one time or another.

Crys *did* marry into the Avengers 'family', after all. So I thought her membership was appropriate. Heck, a family reunion of her, Wanda, Pietro, Vision and Wonder Man could *be* an Avengers line-up... with Lorna as the 'newbie'!

It took some balls to come up with and print that twist, didn't it? Imagine the minds it blew back then...

TN

That's kind of what I liked about her... that 'disconnect' between the costume she wore and the total disdain for everyone she displayed.

It's only recently that I've realized what a complete rip-off of Saturn Girl she is. Telepaths from Titan ripped from their families (though that last is, perhaps, a reboot in-return rip-off of MD) who show prickly personalities.

She should be revealed to be an original member of the Shi'ar Imperial Guard!

TN

One interesting thing about Moondragon to me was the fact that, although it wasn't shown much-- she was a Mantis-level martial artist. They should have used that more.

I don't dislike Moondragon either, although it's hard for me to consider her an Avenger.

Per Cobie, I'll attempt to stay positive... I'll read "Disassembled" and give the new roster that follows an issue or 2 to hook me.

But I imagine I'll be just like the outraged fans who were screaming after AVENGERS 16 saw print.

I'm too tired to talk about all I want to tonight (actually a bad night, but let's not get into it...)

But I have to relay this:

My dad was the biggest Avengers fan of all time when he started reading it at issue #6. He collected all the back issues and for a full year experienced an age of comics that was un-precedented!

Imagine: the biggest stars of Marvel, Iron Man! Cap! Thor! Giant-Man and the Wasp!

And suddenly, it all changed! Enter: Cap's cooky quartet.

He was ready to quit comics. He was so upset, so dissapointed, that he almost quit Marvel, after years as a Marvel zombie. Who the hell was Hawkeye? Some dumb Iron Man villian. Wanda and Peitro? Stupid X-Men villians from a second tier book (X-Men). He loved Iron Man and Hank Pym the most, and Hank Pym not only left Avengers, but also had his run in Tales to Astonish end. He was pissed.

For issues, it dragged on. The Hulk was supposed to join, but never did in the next issue. After months of waiting, however, he realized...he was starting to like these new Avengers. It started in the Power-Man vs. Cap issue, and grew from there. Wanda was a good character, and Hawkeye was original if nothing else. My Dad HATED Cap's Cooky Quartet. But after a little while, they were growing on him.

Enter the Wasp in #28. To say excitement was rampant was an understatement. There were very few Marvel heroes back then, and only like two did not have their own book. Giant-Man was one. And among us soon walked...a Goliath! With Hank's return, my Dad, at 12 years old, was suckered back in, and realized that he loved Wanda, Clint and Pietro all along. A new era began.

It's almost impossible to imagine what it was like when Avengers #16 came out. My dad hated it so much, he almost quit comics. But it worked out for him and all of us .

I wish my Dad had read comics, Cobie! I love reading your stories about him.

Sorry your night was bad; tomorrow will be better.

XXXs and thanks for helping me try to stay positive about this.

Tomorrow's today!

Great story, Cobes. My dad read comics... but it was more like Captain Marvel and the old style JSA guys when he was really little.

I wonder if I would've stuck with comics for so long if as a kid I'd seen adults who read comics... or enjoyed talking about them?

My guess is no, but I can't be sure.

My nephew has superheroes in his blood! We talked for about an hour about different superheroes when I saw him this past weekend. At five, he already knows bunches of characters. There's nothing like the contempt a kid that age can show when you get something wrong. (I wasn't up on my Spidey villains... fool that I am.)

Anyway, it was nice imagining what it would've been like for a 12 year old fan to experience that Avengers shift. I can relate. Thanks!

TN

I'm glad to hear you guys liked the story ! Thanks Lash and Todd, for not only a great conversation, but for cheering me up after a bad Monday night !

The change must have been phenomenal--I know my Dad and every kid he knew talked about it (back when almost every kid he knew collected comics and read Avengers!).

And Todd, that story reminds me of the first comic I ever read, or more precisely, had read *to* me. At about age four or five, my uncle read me and my brother Fantastic Four #12, the Hulk vs. the FF issue! We loved it so much, we demanded he read us #25 & #26, the rematch of the Hulk and Thing, and then the Avengers vs. the FF! That was my FIRST comics experience

*********SPOILERS FOR AVENGERS 83/498*******
-- I actually don't object to the Hawkeye/Jan pairing, but what are they, friggin' idiots?? How do they not expect to get caught messing around like that?? I'm not an Austen basher, but that seemed pretty lame. I just hope he doesn't unravel *all* the trouble Busiek went through to put Pym back together again.
-- Has Hawkeye been holding a torch for the Wasp all this time or is this the first time it's been mentioned?
-- The "Invaders" stuff looks kind of interesting, but you'd think they could give that naked flaming chick an unstable molecule suit. Hammond didn't have to run around naked...

I'm all for bringing in new memebers so how about

Songbird
Polaris
Captain Marvel
Nova
Vindicator
Human Torch
Iron Fist

any of these would be better than Spidy, Wolverine or Elektra

I'm all for Nova joining. He's been around for so long, I'm surprised it hasn't happened yet (and he lives in NYC too). I was psyched when Jack of Hearts joined, but then they went and blowed him up

I know Drake Jack should have been around longer!!!