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Re: Batman, Detective Comics and Batman & Robin
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Joined: Jul 2003
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Wanderer
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I’ve been reading “Red Robin” since issue #13. As mentioned in previous reviews, I’m relatively new to the Bat-family of books. I never read any of Tim Drake’s solo “Robin” series, and my only real familiarity with him comes from the first few issues of Geoff Johns’ “Teen Titans” run. I have quickly become a big fan. I don’t know how he was previously characterized, but I like how Tim is portrayed in this book as extremely smart and resourceful -- not in a way that is obnoxious or overbearing but as a result of being raised, in essence, by the world’s greatest detective. The earlier issues, which I’ve read in TPB, had him taking down Ra’s Al Ghul, which, if not completely logical given who Ra’s is, was done in a way to show that Tim is afraid of very little. Now that he’s back in Gotham, for the most part, there have been some plot points I’ve missed not knowing all the backstory, e.g., Tim’s relationships with Lynx and Anarky, his anti-gang initiatives, his adoption by Bruce, etc., but I hope to rectify this by picking up some of the “Robin” trades. I love Marcus To’s art. My only quibble is that while Tim looks like a fairly typical teenager, albeit one who wears a lot of black suits, as Red Robin he looks older and bulkier. There was a nice scene between him and Bruce a couple of issues back that really illustrated this -- they were standing next to each in costume and looked like equals until Tim took off his hood and suddenly he looked like a little kid.
In the most recent two issues (18 & 19), Tim has been in Russia dealing with Red Star and a Russian businessman with connections to the Society and the “Unternet” (?) – again, missing the backstory. Anyway, issue 19 was a lighter change of pace with Tim and Lucius Fox’s daughter, Tam, getting sucked into the Unternet with Anarky. Tim had on a modified costume that I could see him switching to, especially since he has said he missed the feeling of bullets whizzing through his hair. There’s a team up with the Teen Titans coming up. To me, Tim seems to have outgrown his former teammates, so we'll see how they interact.
Overall, "Red Robin" is a smartly written book with great artwork. Like Dick Grayson before him, it seems completely believable that Tim Drake "graduated" from his role of Robin. Whether I stick with the other Bat-books or not, I'll be following this one for a while.
As a side note, I’m torn with Damian Wayne as Robin. While it would seem too much of a stretch to have Tim go back to the role, I worry that Damian isn’t going to be written consistently, and he’ll end up like Jason Todd. In the few issues of “Batman and Robin” I’ve read by Grant Morrison, he’s a Robin like no other, and he plays off of Dick really nicely. In this month’s “Batgirl” and the recent Halloween issue of “Superman/Batman,” he’s played a little too much for laughs – though they were genuinely funny, especially “S/B”. Anyway, I hope Damian remains true to Morrison’s vision and we’re not voting on whether or not to kill him anytime soon.
Just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water...
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Re: Batman, Detective Comics and Batman & Robin
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Joined: Jul 2003
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Time Trapper
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Review: Batman and Robin #18
You know what? When it was announced that Tomasi and Gleason's run on this book was being delayed, my gut told me that the story ordered to fill-in in the meantime would be a waste of money. After a promising part one last issue, I thought maybe I was wrong. Well, part two made me feel like my first instinct was correct.
Last issue, writer Paul Cornell set up a pretty interesting modus operandi for his new villain the Absence. She would leave clues in which the solution was to figure out what was missing. Then, on that last page we had the reveal that she has a huge hole in the middle of her head to kind of underline her gimmick. It's a weird visual that might seem appropriate for Batman's bizarre villain roster, but at the same time, it feels a little too over the top.
This issue, we get her backstory, and I wasn't impressed at all. Seems she survived a point blank shot to the head because she has a rare condition in which her brain tissue is distributed on the sides of her skull instead of in the middle. I have no idea whether this is real, but if it is, I suspect she would be severely cognitively challenged at best. But not only does this enable her to survive a coincedental wound unimpaired, but somehow she also survived the massive blood loss shared with no medical attention! Really?
Sorry, but that was a bit too much. I think she would've been just fine as a villain with the motif but without the cockamamie hole-in-the-head gimmick. It just took me completely out of the story. I also suspect it precludes her ever appearing again as a Batman villain (unless Cornell writes her into his future comics). Basically, this shapes up as an utter waste of my money with another issue left in the storyline.
Also not digging the violence implied with a bag full of severed heads and Vicki Vale as the potential next victim. Ugh.
Scott McDaniel shares the pencilling duties with another guy I've never heard of. McDaniel does pretty well here with what must have been a tight deadline, but it's not up to his best standards such as we've seen on Nightwing. The other guy is named Christopher Jones, and his pages are unremarkable.
Good grief! Bring on Tomasi and Gleason already!
Lardy's Rating for Batman and Robin #18: one-half Donut (out of five)!
Still "Lardy" to my friends!
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Re: Batman, Detective Comics and Batman & Robin
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Joined: Jul 2003
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Wanderer
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Wanderer
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This storyline was a big ol' bummer for me too... B&R 18 spent way too many pages on the Absence's origin, and it was a lame one at that... looking forward to Tomasi's run...
I propose eating that half donut and leaving a big 0 a la the hole in the Absence's head...
Just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water...
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Re: Batman, Detective Comics and Batman & Robin
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 29,248
Time Trapper
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Time Trapper
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^Yeah, given the choice of eating that half donut and buying B&R 18, definitely eat the half donut!
Still "Lardy" to my friends!
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Re: Batman, Detective Comics and Batman & Robin
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Joined: Sep 2003
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Originally posted by SharkLad: I’ve been reading “Red Robin” since issue #13. As mentioned in previous reviews, I’m relatively new to the Bat-family of books. I never read any of Tim Drake’s solo “Robin” series, and my only real familiarity with him comes from the first few issues of Geoff Johns’ “Teen Titans” run. I have quickly become a big fan. I don’t know how he was previously characterized, but I like how Tim is portrayed in this book as extremely smart and resourceful -- not in a way that is obnoxious or overbearing but as a result of being raised, in essence, by the world’s greatest detective. The earlier issues, which I’ve read in TPB, had him taking down Ra’s Al Ghul, which, if not completely logical given who Ra’s is, was done in a way to show that Tim is afraid of very little. Now that he’s back in Gotham, for the most part, there have been some plot points I’ve missed not knowing all the backstory, e.g., Tim’s relationships with Lynx and Anarky, his anti-gang initiatives, his adoption by Bruce, etc., but I hope to rectify this by picking up some of the “Robin” trades. I love Marcus To’s art. My only quibble is that while Tim looks like a fairly typical teenager, albeit one who wears a lot of black suits, as Red Robin he looks older and bulkier. There was a nice scene between him and Bruce a couple of issues back that really illustrated this -- they were standing next to each in costume and looked like equals until Tim took off his hood and suddenly he looked like a little kid.
In the most recent two issues (18 & 19), Tim has been in Russia dealing with Red Star and a Russian businessman with connections to the Society and the “Unternet” (?) – again, missing the backstory. Anyway, issue 19 was a lighter change of pace with Tim and Lucius Fox’s daughter, Tam, getting sucked into the Unternet with Anarky. Tim had on a modified costume that I could see him switching to, especially since he has said he missed the feeling of bullets whizzing through his hair. There’s a team up with the Teen Titans coming up. To me, Tim seems to have outgrown his former teammates, so we'll see how they interact.
Overall, "Red Robin" is a smartly written book with great artwork. Like Dick Grayson before him, it seems completely believable that Tim Drake "graduated" from his role of Robin. Whether I stick with the other Bat-books or not, I'll be following this one for a while.
As a side note, I’m torn with Damian Wayne as Robin. While it would seem too much of a stretch to have Tim go back to the role, I worry that Damian isn’t going to be written consistently, and he’ll end up like Jason Todd. In the few issues of “Batman and Robin” I’ve read by Grant Morrison, he’s a Robin like no other, and he plays off of Dick really nicely. In this month’s “Batgirl” and the recent Halloween issue of “Superman/Batman,” he’s played a little too much for laughs – though they were genuinely funny, especially “S/B”. Anyway, I hope Damian remains true to Morrison’s vision and we’re not voting on whether or not to kill him anytime soon. I'll have to say, your review has me missing Tim Drake more than ever, Sharky. I'm curious now about the series...maybe I will pick it up and hunt down back-issues. I guess that's an 'in-store' decision.
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Re: Batman, Detective Comics and Batman & Robin
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I thought the Absence had potential as an off-the-wall crazy addition to the Batman Rogue's gallery, but I thought the arc failed to deliver. The third issue was way, way too much talking heads and philosophy. I'm all for some cerebral examination of the whole Batman Inc stuff, but Cornell didn't execute well to the medium's strength and turned what could have been a great arc into an interesting failure.
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Re: Batman, Detective Comics and Batman & Robin
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Originally posted by Dave Hackett: I thought the Absence had potential as an off-the-wall crazy addition to the Batman Rogue's gallery, but I thought the arc failed to deliver. The third issue was way, way too much talking heads and philosophy. I'm all for some cerebral examination of the whole Batman Inc stuff, but Cornell didn't execute well to the medium's strength and turned what could have been a great arc into an interesting failure. Haven't read the third part yet (and am not looking forward to it), but I thought the first part was fine. The second part just totally jumped the shark for me with her origin/explanation. I guess you thought it was okay 'til the third part?
Still "Lardy" to my friends!
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Re: Batman, Detective Comics and Batman & Robin
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Originally posted by Chief Lardy: Haven't read the third part yet (and am not looking forward to it), but I thought the first part was fine. The second part just totally jumped the shark for me with her origin/explanation. I guess you thought it was okay 'til the third part? The second part was serviceable. I've been reading Cornell's excellent Knight & Squire, so I wasn't as surprised to see a completely ridiculous villain (he drops about 10 per issue into K&S). I think he likes doing completely outrageous and over-the-top stuff like that, and as long as he keeps a sense of fun about it, it can be pretty enjoyable. So that didn't bother me as much as the poor conclusion.
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Re: Batman, Detective Comics and Batman & Robin
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Originally posted by Cobalt Kid: I'll have to say, your review has me missing Tim Drake more than ever, Sharky. I'm curious now about the series...maybe I will pick it up and hunt down back-issues. I guess that's an 'in-store' decision. After reading the "Robin: Search for a Hero" TPB, I'm an even bigger fan of Tim's, and I plan on picking up more of the old series trades when I get the chance... Cobie, if you do decide to pick up some back issues of RR, I'd start where I did with #13... Tim setting up shop again in Gotham and picking up the pieces from his old series...
Just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water...
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Re: Batman, Detective Comics and Batman & Robin
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Joined: Dec 2003
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I read and enjoyed Snyder and Jock's recent 3-parter in Detective Comics.
Snyder's a good writer and I look forward to reading more from him. (I know some in here rave about his American Vampire series but I'm not interested enough in vampires or villainous anti-heroes to give that book a shot. Hopefully he'll write more for DC proper or Vertigo in the future.)
I'm a bit over Jock's pencils though. He can do nice covers (#873's is great) but I find looking at his scratchy, murky, highly-stylised sequential art a bit of a chore. He reminds me of Bill Sienkewitz somewhat (whom I prefer). I wish they could do alternate arcs or something.
I had read that this book was going to go back to being a detective/mystery book and while their was a lot more sleuthing than action from Dick/Batman's point-of-view, I had (probably foolishly) also thought that that meant there would be some sleuthing for the reader to do too. So I thought the main villain in the mask and the fake name was going to be someone we had seen before and a mystery for us to solve. Thus when he turned out to be some completely unknown (and not very memorable) new character I was a bit disappointed.
There was a lot to like about this story though so Detective Comics is now back on my pull-list.
The Commissioner Gordon back-up - only had two entries before it was pulled. I presume it's going to re-appear in a one-shot down the road somewhere. I'm not sure I was really enjoying it though.
My main problem is the whole deal with Commissioner Gordon's here-to-fore COMPLETELY unheard of by me and apparently murderous son James. Is this a new character and plot-point to everyone else? Or has he/it appeared somewhere else? Like Batman: Year One (which I've never read) or something maybe?
A previously unknown murderous son (brother to Barbara) seems like too big a plot-point to just suddenly ret-con into the story but there's no reference or editor's box (how I miss those!) to where this story might be coming from. Does anyone at Legion World know?
Anyhoo, I'm not sure I was enjoying it enough to pick up the presumed future one-shot. We'll see.
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Re: Batman, Detective Comics and Batman & Robin
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Yeah, he's had a son. He was born in Year One, and he was in the Long Halloween, Dark Victory, and was a central supporting character in the graphic novel Night Cries. Hell, I forgot all about him until I saw the back-up.
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Re: Batman, Detective Comics and Batman & Robin
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Originally posted by Sarcasm Kid: Yeah, he's had a son. He was born in Year One, and he was in the Long Halloween, Dark Victory, and was a central supporting character in the graphic novel Night Cries. Hell, I forgot all about him until I saw the back-up. Thanks SK. The Long Halloween is the only one of those I've read so it's no wonder I don't remember him.
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Re: Batman, Detective Comics and Batman & Robin
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Originally posted by SharkLad: Originally posted by Cobalt Kid: [b]I'll have to say, your review has me missing Tim Drake more than ever, Sharky. I'm curious now about the series...maybe I will pick it up and hunt down back-issues. I guess that's an 'in-store' decision. After reading the "Robin: Search for a Hero" TPB, I'm an even bigger fan of Tim's, and I plan on picking up more of the old series trades when I get the chance...
Cobie, if you do decide to pick up some back issues of RR, I'd start where I did with #13... Tim setting up shop again in Gotham and picking up the pieces from his old series...[/b]Sounds like a plan! Thanks Sharky for the rec and for also giving me a good issue to start on! BTW, I also caught up on Batman & Robin and have to agree that the Paul Cornell fill-in issues aren't doing it for me. I'm just finding it a bit flat. Same goes for Tony Daniel's second issue of Batman in the Bats Inc. era. Something else else just seems to be missing there. I did think the Batman and Detective Comics annuals weren't bad. They feature both Bruce & Dick in France and introduce a good character, Nightrunner, as Bats Inc's agent in France. The Question (Renee) also guest-stars but honestly, I'm not sure why she was there; she didn't really add anything (yet again--in fact, she hasn't been used well at all since 52). A new character Veil was introduced is very derivative of other characters so she's kind of 'meh'. All in all, it was a mixed bag but better than B&R and Daniel's Batman, which I read in the same sitting.
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Re: Batman, Detective Comics and Batman & Robin
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Been watching the Adam West BATMAN series again, and today, I think I may have seen the inspiration for the 90's cartoon character of Harley Quinn. In "THE PENGUIN'S NEST" / "THE BIRD'S LAST JEST", among his gang is a girl in a bright red outfit with a high-pitched voice who seems a lot more homnicidal than most girl sidekicks on the show. Twice, "Chickadee" (Grace Gaynmor) was quick to pull a gun on someone, the 2nd time, Aunt Harriet. When she did this, she yelled out, "ALRIGHT, Batman-- better GIVE UP, or I'll BLOW the old lady's BRAINS out!" Unusual dialogue for this show, especially from a female!
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Re: Batman, Detective Comics and Batman & Robin
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Another comic reader/blogger had a similiar idea with the old Batman series...just a different episode.
http://bullyscomics.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2011-02-07T22%3A23%3A00-05%3A00
Active LMB character is still Beast Boy.
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Re: Batman, Detective Comics and Batman & Robin
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Knight & Squire's been really fun. Ironic then, that the Joker arrives to make things deadly serious. Should be an interesting contrast next issue when the separate cultures not only of Nations, but of comics storytelling, collide.
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Re: Batman, Detective Comics and Batman & Robin
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Originally posted by Dev Em: Another comic reader/blogger had a similiar idea with the old Batman series...just a different episode.
http://bullyscomics.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2011-02-07T22%3A23%3A00-05%3A00 That was probably my favorite Joker story on the whole series. Bruce Wayne got to fight, the death-trap was incredibly viscious, ALFRED got to fight... There does seem to be a lot of "Baby Jane" in Harley (someone once mentioned her as being possibly the "worst actress" who ever appeared on the show), but the VOICE and homicidal behavior of "Chickadee" may have also been an influence. I'm laughing my way thru most of these. The ones written by Stanley Ralph Ross are particularly good. Somehow, his humor is almost delayed-reaction... he manages to slip so muich in that seems normal until you realize what's actually been said. He really out-does Lorenzo Semple Jr. (Charles Hoffman, on the other hand, whose writing was just BAD without actually being funny, was promoted to story editor. Figures, don't it? They put the worst writer in charge of everybody else's scripts.)
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Re: Batman, Detective Comics and Batman & Robin
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Issue #21 ... White Knight part 2... definitely a step up from last issue and certainly from the last three issue arc... someone is going for super-villians' families... beautiful art... Damian is appropriately bratty but not to "Danny Chase" levels... didn't think I'd like Dick as Batman once Bruce returned, but the dynamic with Damian is spot on...
Just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water...
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Re: Batman, Detective Comics and Batman & Robin
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Red Robin #21... Marcus To's artwork is so beautiful, I didn't even pay too much attention to the story the first or second read through... a very cool tale of Tim and Anarky outsmarting an evil Russian and the Mad Men... Tim looks awesome... his alternate "unternet" costume is very cool... this is a great book I hope people are checking out...
Just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water...
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Re: Batman, Detective Comics and Batman & Robin
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I'm really into the latest Batman: Incorporated story-arc, which is giving us all kinds of insight into the Silver Age Batwoman and how she fits into Batman's history once and for all. So far, really great stuff!
Also loving the inclusion of El Guacho, my favorite of the Club of Heroes characters.
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Re: Batman, Detective Comics and Batman & Robin
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BATMAN, INC. is the one Batman title I've started picking up (though I am getting things like BIRDS OF PREY, RED ROBIN and THE OUTSIDERS that are bat-adjacent) and I do enjoy it. I did like the Batwoman/Kathy Kane story and look forward to follow-up.
Unfortunately, I waited till the last couple of months to start the series. Wasn't there a cover coming up that had a Batman-like guy riding a buffalo? Or did that story already see publication?
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Re: Batman, Detective Comics and Batman & Robin
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Originally posted by Mystery Lad: Unfortunately, I waited till the last couple of months to start the series. Wasn't there a cover coming up that had a Batman-like guy riding a buffalo? Or did that story already see publication? That's still to come. They've moved some of the covers around a bit and the storyline seems to be expanding a little in scope (Morrison took three issues to do the El Gaucho/Batwoman stuff instead of the originally planned two).
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Re: Batman, Detective Comics and Batman & Robin
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My current ranking of the 5 main Bat-titles (the periphery ones not counting if they don't star Bats himself):
(5) Batman by Tony Daniel - I'm having a hard time getting into this AT ALL. I love Daniel's art but his writing style seems all over the map. I want to like it...but just can't.
(4) Batman & Robin - Even with the new creative team who I loved on GLC, I'm really not enjoying this one at all either. Could it be that I just can't truly enjoy Dick & Damien, and its a personal thing? Or is it that so far it all seems so run of the mill?
(3) Dark Knight - The artwork is incredible while the story thus far is 'okay'. But the moodiness and atmosphere add a bit more to it than Bats and Bats/Robs. I feel the Penguin and Killer Croc are being used better here than the villains in Batman. I'd give this one a solid "B".
(2) Batman, Inc. - Morrison seems to have recaptured his enthusiasm here and thus far is really impressing me. I'm enjoying it quite a bit, especially this latest story with El Gaucho about the original Batwoman.
(1) Detective Comics - yup, 'Tec is my personal favorite of the bunch, hands down being the best in terms of all-around quality. Scott Snyder is nailing a very crime / noir feel with real detective work, while Francesco Francavilla, one of my favorites, is delivering on all levels. Even the coloring is fantastic. And the current Son of Gordon storyline is has me totally hooked.
So all in all, you have two really good ones, two pretty 'meh' ones and then Dark Knight, which kind of hovers in the middle.
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Re: Batman, Detective Comics and Batman & Robin
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Neither post-Morrison team has really delivered with B&R so far for me either (Correll was slightly better than Tomasi), and I really dig Dick and Damien. Six months ago I would have dropped this when you told me Winnck is doing the next arc, but his Power Girl has made me re-evaluate him. We'll see which Judd shows up for this.
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Re: Batman, Detective Comics and Batman & Robin
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Yeah, I was under the impression that Tomasi & Gleason was the permanent replacement for Morrison & company, but it seems we're getting rotating creative teams doin 3-issue arcs? I haven't seen any official comment by DC about all of this, but I'm disappointed.
I agree that two-thirds in (haven't read part three yet), Tomasi has disappointed, even as Gleason's visuals have been pretty good. I still would've stayed beyond that arc to see if Tomasi would improve. When the Winnick arc was announced, I thought maybe it was a fill-in to give Gleason more lead time as he helped finish up Brightest Day. But again, there's been no official comment that I'm aware of.
I'm jumping off with the Winnick arc. Though I like what he's done on JL:GL, he has a very poor track record with Batman. B&R shouldn't be a rotating creative showcase but one of the more crucial titles as it's been since it debuted.
Cobie is correct that 'Tec and Inc. have both been terrific, however. (DK and Batman, I haven't even tried.) It's too bad that Snyder will be leaving 'Tec after his long arc is complete around the end of the summer. There are hints that he may continue on Batman in some form or another but nothing solid.
Still "Lardy" to my friends!
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