Legion World Forums LEGION COMPANION Dr. Gym'll's Cultural Rarities The Flash (Barry Allen)

Been rereading the series. Read from the Death of Iris to the end, and now went back to issue 197.

Great series. I really miss Barry. Would not want to see him return though.

Any other "old school" Silver Age Flash fans out there?

Ah yes. The Mirror Master. The Top. Captain Cold. The Rainbow Raider. Heat Wave. Gorilla Grodd. The Weather Wizard....

...and my all time favorite, the Reverse-Flash.

Wally West just ain't the Flash to me.

I like Wally...Waid made me like him, but Johns made me like Capt. Cold more...just came to that realization...

Barry is the best though.

Sigh. They are both wonderful characters. Between the 2 of them, more interesting things have happened than to just about any other major heroic character. Barry has even been interesting as a dead/nearly dead/not quite dead yet hero. I haven't read the book in years, but Wally's character arc after Barry's death was compelling and believable.

Here's the problem. DC has f*#!&d over almost EVERY "second generation" hero in it's entire history. My god, look at Infinity, Inc. Look what Johns has now done to Hector Hall. Pol Krinn. The SW6 Legionnaires. Donna Troy/Wonder Girl. Jason Todd. The list is endless.

I loved Barry, but I thought his heroic story came to a conclusion. Maybe Wally's has, too. I don't know. But I am tired of the "kill your children" carnage at DC. Very, very tired of it.

Oh, I have nothing against Wally West, who had to step into some big shoes. The problem is that I can't think of West without thinking of Kid Flash (whose costume was, IMHO, a lot better than that of the Flash).

Then again, it might just be a matter of taste. I can't think of Nightwing without thinking "Hey, isn't that the guy who used to be wearing little green pants?" Whereas seeing Tim Drake as Robin is very, very believable, to the point where I'm almost thinking of Drake as the "natural" Robin.

(Sidebar: If Superboy could travel to the future to join the LSH, why couldn't Robin have joined as a member? It would be great to see Dick Grayson or Tim Drake interacting with the Legionnaires.)

Crisis got me more interested in DC. Before I the Legion was the only title I stuck with. Would get Wolfman/Perez Titans on occassion. Also would get JLA on occassion. But most DC that i bought confused me as a kid.

Well after Crisis when I learned that Kid Flash (who i knew from Titans) became the Flash...I thought it was the coolest thing. Some old superhero I didn't care for died a heroic death and his young partner replaced him. Cool! So I really love Wally. And it fit as well. I can't imagine Dick Grayson ever becoming Batman.

(but I can imagine Tempest becoming Aquaman!)

The Flash was one of my favorite titles in the '70s. In fact, I think it was the only non-team book I followed when I was a kid. Wally West is not the Flash to me. I guess that's why I haven't followed the Flash since Wally took over the title.

I read Barry's title sporadically when I was a kid. Barry was the first Flash I knew, but I like Wally and Jay better. I'd rather keep Wally than to get Barry back. If Wally can't be the "Flash" standard-bearer, I'd rather it be Jay.

Interesting thought, Rockhopper...Only if Jay and Joan get a re-ageing zap...It would be like starting again from scratch

All-Star Flash as young Jay Garrick in modern times? I like that idea.

So anyone still think the same?

I've never particularly cared for speedsters for some reason. It's a combination of the fact that "running reallly fast" as a power never excited me and the fact that they're rarely written up to their potential. (because someone moving that fast really should able to beat almost anyone they come across)

I still wish he had not returned, but I am enjoying the new mini...and am eternally grateful that Geoff Johns is writing it.

I'm enjoying it too right now. But the scariest thought I have is "What happens in a few years when Geoff eventually leaves the Flash title again?" Because to justify bringing Barry back in the first place, DC has to make sure every single issue if the best quality possible.

I'm enjoying it, but I'm not liking the "driven by the death of his mother and conviction of his father to fight crime" angle, can't heroes do the right thing because, I dunno, it's right rather than be driven by some tragedy in their past?

But other than that I'm enjoying it and I'm willing to wait till all five issues are out before I get bent out of shape.

I'm not following this. How many Flashes do we have now? Jay, Barry and Wally are all Flashes, and Bart is going back to Kid Flash?

Well, Barry was one of the characters I gravitated towards as a kid reading comics. He just seemed to inhabit this acid based world where he was the base about which all the insanity whirled and spun. Then, along about the time that Irv Novick left(it may have been his death, been a long time and I don't remember) they changed the run. Barry went to busting in doors and getting this phony cop personality grafted onto him. Then Iris was gone, and he was having a thing for Fiona and Zatanna, and it just didn't feel like Barry.

Then came crisis and his death. And I have to say that he became much more after his death. He truly took on an iconic quality that I thought he lacked as a blue collar working stiff in his "real" life. He, not superman, became the standard for the heroic ideal in the DCU superheroverse.

And now he's back. And I like Wally better, in spite of the last four years. I like that Wally took on the role when he didn't really want it. I like that he in many ways surpassed Barry because and only because he had barry's legacy to live up too. I like that he brought a return of the blue collar working man to comics, if in a roundabout way.

I like Wally better in the role of Flash now. I will always like Barry the character better, but Wally has the best, deepest, and most honest in a way characterization in the DCU.

Geoff is going to tell a great story, no doubt. But its a return of that grafted on persona that caused me to leave Barry's book in the first place.

The end of REBIRTH #2-- now that turns things on their heads, doesn't it?

I like Barry and his CSI-like secret identity possibilities. I haven't been bowled over by his return to Flash-dom. The storytelling's fine.

On the whole, I'd rather read Wally as Flash, though. I'd actually like it if the afore-mentioned ending leads to something like Barry taking a different superhero ID, leaving Jay and Wally as the Flashes.

Bart's about to be back as Kid Flash-- I kind of would like to see Jenny come back in time and be Kid Flash for awhile, while Bart stayed in whatever 31st century is going to be featured and spend some time as a Legionnaire.

Wow...between this series and LoTW, Geoff seems intent on bringing back a lot of characters that were dead and buried...and not in the Blackest Night sense.

Geoff Johns has written some great comics in recent years but IMO this title is most definitely not one of them. Flash: Rebirth #4 was almost incomprehensible to me.

I'll pick up the final two issues in this mini because Comic Series Completion Disorder (CSCD) is an AMA-recognised disease and I am an unfortunate sufferer of it but the new ongoing(s?) will almost certainly not be on my pull-list.

He's still got 2 issues to straighten things out. I have hopes that the whole thing will make total sense by the time it's done. I get the gist of everything so far.

Personally, I thought #4 was terrific, having just read it. I can only assume the confusion comes from the circumstances of Thawne's retunr not being explained. Thawne alludes to an enemy of Barry's being behind it, though it apparently hasn't happened yet. This is easily explainable by speedsters' access to time travel. And I'm sure we'll learn the circumstances of Thawne's return in the remaining issues.

I'm actually pretty thrilled to see Thawne's return, moreso than Barry's! To me, Thawne is the ultimate Flash villain, and there's been quite a void ever since he was killed off. I'm pretty surprised, actually, as Johns worked so hard to build up Hunter Zolomon as the new Zoom over his tenure writing the Flash. Zolomon never really worked for me though. It's actually really odd to see a writer who associated himself so strongly with Wally and Zolomon come back to the property with Barry and Thawne.

I like the Speed Force having a "dark side" as a new wrinkle. I mean, the Speed Force has always been a bit of a riff on Star Wars' Force, so I don't really mind Johns taking things a bit further. I also like the innovation here that Barry actually created or even is the Speed Force. It's a logical way to justify bringing him back and establishing him as the prime Flash. I'm not completely sold on bringing Barry back, mind you, but it's a step in the right direction.

What does vex me more and more is Iris and reconciling her history with where she is now. During the storyline that first brought us Bart Allen and into Waid's run and the Impulse title, Iris was an older woman, possibly old enough to be collecting social security. Now she's young again with no explanation that I know of. One could argue all this is post-Infinite Crisis continuity, but she still had to have had children and grandchildren! Bart and Jenni anyone? I've heard of hot grandmas, but COME ON!

So overall, I'd say that Thawne's return is redeeming Rebirth for me, though I'm not without concerns.

Honestly, I think that while Geoff's original run on Flash was his way of distancing his direction from that of the popular Waid era that preceded his, Flash: Rebirth is connecting with and building on the mythology that Waid built up. There wasn't much talk of the Speed Force or much focus on the Flash family of heroes or even time travel that were all Waid hallmarks when Johns wrote the Flash. Suddenly, they're all very prominent in Rebirth whereas Johns' wrinkles, such as the focus on the Rogues are barely a part of the story if at all.

As someone who preferred Waid's run and what he did for the mythology, I applaud Johns for bringing all those elements back.

It might just be me then. I've never liked the Speed Force as a concept (though to be fair I've never read Waid's run on this title so I might've missed all the good stories using it) so the heavy focus on in it in this tale might be part of the reason I'm being turned off.

I think the other issue I'm having with this story is that it seems to me to be all "sound and fury" but with very little focus. It reads to me like Geoff is throwing everything into it to make it BIG! and IMPORTANT! but not plotting the beats or even setting up the characters very well. (This Barry Allen for example reads very little like the Barry Allen I remember.)

Then there's the horrible retcon involving Barry's parents... but I hear an explanation is forthcoming on that one so I'll keep an open mind.

I'm not totally hating this book though - I also am happy to see 'Professor' Zoom back as well as Max Mercury and Johnny Quick (brief as it was) and the de-aging of Iris can only be a good thing IMO.

I think I was just hoping that Flash Rebirth would be more of a Barry Allen story and so far it seems to be more of an All-Flash/Speed Force story and since the new ongoing sounds like it'll be following the same format - I don't think it'll be a book for me.

I'm witholding judgement on the entire Rebirth mini as thus far I'm on the fence about several issues.

One thing that did surprise me was that Geoff opted to keep Max Mercury alive. I think this was a great move on his part even if it means there is another speedster. It goes against everything he's been doing lately (or at least feels) and I wonder if he recognizes some of the criticism towards him that he's kill-happy.

As to Iris's age and the long, convuluted history of Barry and Iris through time, I think that's a thread Geoff plans to expand on, given his recent interviews. The explanation will of course be: time travel, but it'll be interesting to see the nuts and bolts of it.

I'm still clueless as to what this all means for Wally and Linda and the *groan* Flash kids who still remain a never-ending annoyance.