Legion World Forums LEGION COMPANION Dr. Gym'll's Cultural Rarities Favorite non-costumed supporting characters

The title says it all -- which non-heroes are your favs? I was reading Daredevil and thought it was pretty cool how Ben Urich's had a rich life as a supporting character flitting around the Marvel U (and is even a main character in "The Pulse" now). He might be my favorite comic book "civilian". Others include:

-- Jim Gordon: I'm not necessarily riding the big nostalgia wave, but I wish he were Comissioner again. Or at least worked with Batman on occassion in some capacity (maybe during "52" Bruce Wayne will decide to quit being Batman and run for President with Gordon as his running mate).
-- Moira MacTaggart
-- Jim Rhodes: yeah, he was Iron Man and War Machine, but I liked him best when he was a supporting player.

In IRON MAN, Happy Hogan & Pepper Potts (Stan Lee-Don heck era)

In DAREDEVIL, Heather Glenn (I will NEVER forgive what Frank Miller & Denny O'Neil did to her...)

In SPIDER-MAN, Mary Jane Watson (Stan Lee-John Romita era ONLY; to me, no one else has ever done her right!)

In the 1967 SPIDER-MAN cartoons, Betty Brant; she was SO much nicer and more likeable in those than she EVER was in the comics!

In BATMAN-- no question, Alfred. (This goes fom his debut up to 1986; after that, he became a completely differert person. I also really like the versions in the 1943 movie serial and the 1966 tv series!)

Jarvis from Avengers.

Shvaughn Erin from Legion.

Jim Gordan Batman. Alfred Batman.

Hank Pym when he as Dr. Pym.

Ben Urich did rock!

BUT THE BEST BAR NONE IS that guy from the Power Man series...the guy with the long blond hair...that worked at the Gem I think? Dwight was it? doh!

Bethany Cabe from Iron Man. She kicked ass, but without being a one-dimensional "tough girl" stereotype. Kudos to Bob Layton and David Michelinie.

Slam Bradley from Catwoman. There aren't that many older/old characters in superhero comics who are active, effective and enduring. I'm a sucker for tough guys with big hearts, broken noses and grey hair.

Mary Jane Watson, Gwen Stacy, Betty Brant (from various eras of SPIDER-MAN)...I think Mary Jane married Peter, right and Aunt May is still alive and kicking?

Alfred's da man!! Though I've enjoyed him even more in Robin/Nighting's serieses than Batman's.

Stevie...... something (the dance teacher from the New Mutants/X-Men) was an interesting character too. Had cool hair.

Linda and Iris are two of my all-time favorites too-- the women behind the Flashes. Rock on sistahs~

All of Wonder Woman's embassy staff were absolutely fabulous. But I think that was more Rucka than anything else.

And Cissie gets a big thumbs up too. Because, even though she was costumed first, I still love her and am glad she showed up in the Teen Titans/Outsiders thingy. Yay Cissie!!

I was always a bit of a fan of foggy nelson and Karen page.

I could probably go on and on about this, so I’ll try to be somewhat brief (yeah right )

Spidey – Spidey is my favorite hero as some of you well know, but even more, Spider-Man’s supporting cast is my favorite supporting cast among any comic book. I love ALL of them. But some in particular stand out:
(1) Gwen Stacy – to me, the greatest love interest of any comic book hero, and my favorite. She was one of the few females I used as a standard against all others in the early days of my youth! Supportive, smart, fun, sexy…really just perfect.
(2) Jonah Jameson – there is really no other supporting character like him. He just brings so much tension, drama and dynamic to every scene he’s in that I can’t get enough of him. To me, a great Spider-Man story should have JJJ scenes in it. Just look at how he steals all his scenes in the movie.
(3) Joe Robertson – I love Captain Stacy and other members of Peter’s cast, but Robbie has always been in my mind the conscience of the series since #90 of ASM. Over the years they’ve returned to him and he’s had some truly great scenes, showing Peter what being a man and standing up for you believe in truly means.

Batman – who of course has two of the greatest ever:
(1) Commissioner Gordon – Gordon is the man. And it’s a damn shame they don’t inclue him in more current Batman stories. I prefer 100% to have him become commissioner again, but if not, at least make him help Batman out in solving crimes. A strong, honest character that is Batman’s best friend ally on part with Dick Grayson and Superman. I also feel that even in the last 20 years this has remained so, and Frank Miller and the 90’s Batman comics maintained a tremendous amount of respect for Gordon.
(2) Alfred – And Alfred is another member of the series that must never leave. He adds more to the Batman mythos than any other member, including all the villains and all the Robins combined.

Legion (and Superman) – my favorite supporting character here is actually Pete Ross. I love his Silver Age self, and the amount of subtle heroism he showed in keeping Clark’s secret a secret, never wanting anything for himself other than to do the right thing. I found it very rewarding that the Legion gave him honorary membership, something he was very worthy of. Besides Pete, no supporting cast member tops Shvaughn, who was as interesting any of the Legionnaires. I also love Rond Vidar, Circadia Cirrus and Ambassador Relnic.

Iron Man – I love Pepper and Happy Hogan, and feel Iron Man should always have them in his comic. I could do without ever seeing another love triangle with Tony again, but I like them around. I agree with Drake too, in that I love Rhodey as a supporting player with Iron Man, and would like him to return to that role, with a strong mutual respect between him and Tony.

Thor – The Warriors Three, Balder and Sif (others too, but these are the main ones) hold a strong place in my heart. I need a monthly dose of all of them, completely immersed in Thor’s life.

Catwoman – I echo FC’s statements. I want to be Slam when I’m older. The love both Brubaker and Cooke had for Slam has translated to all Catwoman readers and future creators.

Flash – Linda is such an important part of Wally’s life that I’m very concerned that I won’t see the two of them much longer. Like Gwen & Peter are my favorite couple from comics made before I started reading them, Wally & Linda are my favorite for comics written during my lifetime.

Starman – if you consider the Shade a supporting character, which I guess I do, then surely he is one of the best ever in a comic.

Preacher – Tulip and Cassidy, along with a ton of others along the way, had an equally as important and powerful role in this series.

Ostrander’s Spectre & Suicide Squad – I always loved the role Father Cramer would play when he showed up in these.

Black Panther – Priest totally caught me and half of comicdom off-guard by introducing the most unlikely of stars, the Panther’s bumbling attaché Ross.

Daredevil & elsewhere – I agree with others on Ben Urich. I often don’t think of Ben, but he has become a very strong and impressive character over the last twenty five years.

Rick Jones – Hulk, Captain Marvel, Captain America, Avengers. It doesn’t matter. Rick Jones is a star in his own right and I enjoy his appearances immensely. From the Silver Age youthful kid with a streak of heroism to PAD’s excellent rendition of him, I’d buy a title for the sole reason that Rick was in it. Having Marlo around would be a helluva plus.

Avengers – the Avengers must always have Jarvis present.

I’ve been asked this before and I always forget people or leave people off, but these are the most important that I could think of off-hand

Now here's a thread that could get me posting a storm. Watching our heroes bound around is fun, seeing the human reactions to them is more fun. I almost wish we could see a series devoted to the supporting characters, maybe even a battle royal.

1) Alfred Pennyworth- he's the best. Batman has starred in some bad movies, crappy tv shows, even a few horrible issues of his own comic book. But Alfred has always been a winner. Whether it's the snippy servant, the bumbling butler, or the fatherly friend, he's humbled Bats, tamed Dick, and even chided Supes. He's become more of a tool, with his versatile skills allowing Bats to get into all kinds of trouble, but still manages to come out a well rounded character. Here's to him and Leslie living happily ever after.

2) Jimmy Olsen- the kid. Jimmy's been representing comic book fans for almost 70 years now. He gets to say and do the things we would if we got to be in the funny pages.

3) Lois Lane- the damsel in distress. At first, she was there just to give Supes someone to rescue, and Clark someone to pine for. Over the years, she's come to reflect the very human nature to stand up and be counted. We have these heroes, but we don't need them.

4) James Gordon- great man, great cop, great friend. Gordon is Batman, without the vigilante behaviour. Here's a man dedicated to cleaning up a corrupted city. He's lost his family (more than once), destroyed his health, and even ruined his own reputation to help Bats win the war. Batman has the toys I want to play with, Gordon has the character I want.

Marvel hasn't devleoped their supporting characters as deeply as DC. Jarvis, Rick Jones, Mary Jane are all couterparts, owing their existence to DC characters. I don't deny that they are entertaining in their own way, just not the benchmark established by Alfred and the rest.

Sam & Twitch, Bullock, Montoya, Jonah Jameson, Nick Fury, Iris Allen, Leslie Thompkins, Flash Thompson, Lana Lang, Pete Ross, Aunt May... I could rattle on about these folks like ya'all do about Legionairres.

Who is Mary Jane a counterpart of? And Rick Jones blows Snapper Carr away!

The Yancy Street Gang.

Bah! Ace blows Snapper Carr away. I was likening Rick more to Jimmy. I'm not all that familiar with the Yancy Street Gang. What's some of their more memorable appearances?

I think they appeared in an issue of FANTASTIC FOUR in a story called "It Happened On Yancey Street", which also had an appearence by the Watcher and was of many stories adapted for the excellent 1967 FF cartoon, made by the fine team of Hanna-Barbera

When I started this thread I knew Alfred an Jarvis would make a bunch of appearances, but honestly, I don't see them as anything other than their functions. Granted, I haven't read all their appearances, but I never got a sense of them as people. I see their value as their respective roles in their mythos, but that's it.

I really think Jarvis became more human when he appeared in his very own one-off story in AVENGERS 201, even his mum was likeable!

CJ, oh yeah...Jimmy. I forgot about Jimmy.

The Yancy Street Gang were semi-regulars in the early Fantastic Four. They were basically a bunch of nameless, faceless blue-collar guys from a tough neighborhood who made it their mission in life to play pranks on the Thing.

I don't know if their exact relationship to Ben was ever firmly established, and they're obviously not used anymore. I haven't read the FF in years, maybe decades (other than the last 3-4 Waid issues), so I have no idea what ever happened to them.

RJ is right, thats how the Yancy Street Gang was portrayed. You also got the sense that Ben was a part of the gang when he was a kid (they're mostly pre-teen to teenagers) and that they secretly admired him, but had to continually play pranks on him to keep him humble. That's how I always read it anyway.

They still appear every so often. It's definately a Lee/Kirby concept at its Silver Age best.

I think the thing with Jarvis (and probably Alfred, who I am less familiar with) is that, even though they are mainly shown as being support staff, it shows that even heroes need someone to what over them.

Jarvis is always being shown as keeping the home fires burning, making sure that the Avengers have a comfortable place to crash after a mission. He has also been shown countless times as being there for first aid, making sure that the heroes have eaten, doing the little things. He's kind of the mom of the Avengers.

Also, he has been shown as being active support in instances where Avengers Mansion has been attacked, and he has jumped into the fray with nothing more than a silver serving tray as his weapon.

Jarvis is the man!

"I think they appeared in an issue of FANTASTIC FOUR in a story called "It Happened On Yancy Street", which also had an appearence by the Watcher and was of many stories adapted for the excellent 1967 FF cartoon, made by the fine team of Hanna-Barbera"

That's "IT STARTED ON YANCY STREET", from F.F. #29 (and reprinted in MARVEL COLLECTORS' ITEM CLASSICS #21, MARVEL MASTERWORKS Vol.13, F.F. MASTERWORKS Vol.3, and ESSENTIAL F.F. Vol.2-- anywhere else?). Stan Lee, Jack Kirby, Chic Stone-- WHOA!!! Anyone who dismisses the first 40-some issues of FANTASTIC FOUR is missing out on a LOT of great material, and this was one of the REAL "classics". And yes, made into an EQUALLY great, "classic" cartoon back in '67 on the H-B show.

It's the 2nd appearance of The Red Ghost and his Super-Apes (sorry if that BLOWS it for anyone!!), who seek revenge for the events in F.F. #13; it's the F.F.'s 2nd trip to the moon (this time as prisoners) and I forget how many times it is by here they cross paths with The Watcher (voiced by Paul Frees on the cartoon).

The Yancy Street Gang appear-- ALL OFF-CAMERA! You never see their faces-- you never see them! They just taunt the Thing and the rest of the F.F. (who should have had the smarts to stay out of that neighborhood), and you have great stuff like, "Look out, Ben! You're stepping on a wad of chewing gum!" "Drat those Yancy Streeters-- no good litter-bugs!"


Of course, MY favorite scene in the story is later, when they go back for more, and run into something much worse. There's a panel in the book I always like to mis-read, 'cause it sounds funnier this way...

"STAY BACK, Ben! That's no gorilla! It's a full-grown YANCY STREETER!!"

That was exactly how I read it as well.

Thanks for the clarification, Prof...The FF cartoon was among my favourites of that time period..Classic stuff, indeed!

Not long ago I managed to tape about HALF of the run of the 1967 H-B F.F. cartoons off of Cartoon Network when they were running "Boomerang" late Saturday nights. I'd have gotten more, but the idiots kept changing the schedule, and finally yanked it off entirely.

I hadn't seen MOST of the series since the 60's! I was always impressed with that as one of the best things ever made for Saturday mornings. I know SPIDER-MAN was snazzier and more popular (and managed to REALLY gain popularity in syndication based on the simple fact that it had 52 episodes, while the F.F. had been cancelled after only one season). When I first began buying Marvel Comics, many reprints, I was further impressed that so many of the tv cartoons had been based on existing Lee-Kirby comic-book stories. Over the years I tended to lament that the tv versions left out a lot and over-simplified things...

Something else else funny happened when I was taping those cartoons. Around the same time, I was also re-reading the early F.F. comics from the beginning. I love the entire Lee-Kirby run of the book, including the early stuff. But I noticed something. Too many of the issues in the first 2 years or so had a "seat-of-the-pants" / "making it up as they go along" style of plotting. Stan & Jack were having TOO much fun throwing in all kinds of "character" bits that added texture, but didn't advance the story. And on SEVERAL occasions, it was very noticeable to me that Jack found himself nearing the end of the book, was about to run out of pages, and SUDDENLY had to bring the story to a FAST, abrupt climax. This was eventually smoothed out in later years... although much of that was due to the increase of multi-part stories-- or the equally "loose" habit of having subplots continue from issue to issue, introducing major plot points months before the actual stories began, continuing sub-plots left over from stories that were already finished... In effect, substituting "tight" plotting for-- ahem-- "SOAP OPERA" style writing.

And here's the crazy part. In SEVERAL instances-- "PRISONERS OF PLANET X" and "GALACTUS", to name 2-- the cartoons were BETTER-STRUCTURED than the comics they were based on! Everyone talks about the Galactus story being a "trilogy"-- no it's not! It starts HALFWAY thru #48, and ends HALFWAY thru #50! By rights, it should have been a 2-parter! (The Inhumans story, meanwhile, wound up being 4-1/2 parts. WHAT kind of plot structure is that?)


Another, related funny thing... a friend of mine sent me some episodes of the 1990's F.F. cartoon-- the ones with The Frightful Four and The Inhumans. I'm SPOILED by the '67 series. I love the designs, the animation, the music, and for the most part, the VOICES-- especially on the regulars. The 90's cartoon just didn't "do it" for me. I didn't like the designs, the animation, the voices, the dialogue, the music... SHEESH! But here's the funny part. Anyone who's read the original Inhumans story KNOWS there's dozens of GAPING plot holes in that-- MOST, no doubt, due to Stan NOT KNOWING what the heck Jack intended in his plots-- and Jack still "making it up as he went along" (and possibly forgetting where he was going half the time). It's amazing, it's GREAT-- but it could have been better. INCREDIBLY, those cartoons I didn't like very much-- FIXED-- all the plot holes. Every one. The damn things made MORE SENSE than the original comics. Damn.

Now, if only the '67 show had done those stories using those "fixed" plots...

What did you think of the 70's FF cartoon where they replaced the Human Torch with H.E.R.B.I.E.? IMHO I thought it was a stinker on all levels!