Legion World Forums LEGION COMPANION Dr. Gym'll's Cultural Rarities Captain America

Good point... this is a surefire "Premiere HC"! I can wait for that to read chapters 1,2 and 4. Especially as it'll be a 50% off special, most likely. Thanks, Scott!

I'm very sorry to hear that Loeb lost his son. It is said that writing stories like this can be a form of therapy.

And yes, Ed McGuinness drew # 2 (inked by Dexter Vines).

I'm sure I've said it before, but I've never liked Cap. He's not my kind of character-- too Superman-y. But when Bru came on board to restart the title, I was curious. I mean, I loved his Wildstorm stuff and he did this really cool thing with Batgirl in Detective Comics and Gotham Central was totally awesome. And then I heard that Bucky came back. Bucky! I almost laughed out loud because he was one of the ones I used to name as having actually stayed dead. (Gwen, the Gen X boys and Illyana were also on the list... though that last one may be questionable now.)

Sufficed to say, that was enough to convince me to check out the first trade. (This was around House of M time, I think.) Anyway. I loved it. I've loved Bru's run. And I absolutely loved Cap in it. He was fabulous. Just... so awesome. He (like Ms. Marvel) were moved into the "like" column for me. It was all good. Even HoM and Civil War couldn't get me down! Oh, and Bucky? Totally love him. I seriously fangirl over that kid... which is saying something, really. Love the history, love the anger... he's like Ultimate!Cap but without the powers.

Then Bru killed his title character. I was devestated. Seriously, wtf? I just started liking this character and you kill him?! Why??? But I have to admit, despite the disappointing delays, I'm still loving the title. And Fallen Son? Adored it. It didn't hit all the right notes exactly but it sure got most of them. And that last issue-- Cassiday's tribute-- my God. I... it... seriously, I cried. No joke. (I do that a lot, though-- I'm a girl.) He was the right man for that job. It was so perfect.

I forget why I started to write this. I feel like I had a purpose. Oh well. All I can say is that I'm loving Cap and his book (even though it's without him), and I loved Loeb's Fallen Son and... yes. Lots of love. But then I am a faithful Bru fan. (Despite a somewhat rocky start in Uncanny.)

I finished reading this last night, and it's taken me awhile to process what it all means.

I agree that Sam's eulogy was moving and powerful. It's odd that Iron Man is the cover-featured hero, when he has so little to do in this issue. Mainly, it's Sam Wilson's chance to shine.

Cassaday's full-page spreads were awesome. I normally don't like so many full-page spreads in a single issue -- they tend to reduce the amount of actual story being told -- but here it seemed appropriate. Each spread portrayed Cap as a larger-than-life figure in various episodes from his career. They captured the awed reverence that the entire MU has for him.

Now, about that ending ... at first, I thought Loeb was giving us a non-committal ending, with Tony refusing to answer the Wasp's question. This in turn made me think that nothing had really happened in the story, i.e., no character had changed and nothing new was revealed. If this is the case in any story, there is usually no payoff. I didn't want Fallen Son to end this way.

But if there is such a change, it comes very subtly in Tony's eulogy for Cap:

"... maybe there was a reason you had to be on the other side of every argument. How you could be my rudder, steering me when others couldn't ... I don't know if I can do it without you ... I certainly won't do it as well ..."

Is Tony coming around to realizing that Cap just might have been right in his opposition of the Super-Hero Registration Act? Is Tony coming to see that there really are two sides to every issue, and that he needs someone to steer his "rudder" and prevent him from going too far in one direction?

Is this why he wanted [SPOILER] to be the next Cap, because said character had tried to be that voice of opposition toward Cap in the past?

I guess we'll have to wait for future stories to find out what this all means for Tony. Or perhaps we were meant to be left without an answer, just as the Wasp was.

Any other thoughts on what the ending meant?

Cap = Marvel's best comic book, possibly best on the market, on par even with Fables.

Looking forward to a few minutes to read the above couple of posts! Glad you're all still reading and really glad HWW is here!

Thanks, Cobie. That's quite a compliment.

SCORE!

So... "The Return"....

Newsarama article on "The Return"

Looks like the Invaders to me. Could time travel be involved? I hope not. I feel like they just pulled that trick with Captain Marvel.

The two arms on either side of Cap ... Bucky and the Submariner?

Seeing how they "buried" Cap's body in Fallen Son, I wouldn't be surprised if Naor plays a role in Cap's resurrection.

So they are planning "The Return" ALLREADY????

I mean NO ONE ever thought that they had really/permanently killed cap. I think that the fact that we were all CERTAIN that they would bring him back was the only thing that weakened the story...but if they are going to kill him let's try at least to make it as lasting as possible.

This seems like.."Oh No! He's DEAD!!" - beat - "Yay! He's ALIVE!!"

I just think it's too soon.

Whether or not I continue to read Captain America depends on how the death thing gets resolved.

I'm not an Alex Ross fan, but I've already slobbered enough venom in the Millar/FF thread, so I'll stop there.

*snerk* You're so cute when you're embittered, Stealth. Personally, I read Cap's book for Bru. So, as long as he's going to tell a killer story (Hopefully not literally anymore >.> Bucky just got back, after all.), I'm there.

Though, I will agree that the idea of Steve Rogers' Captain America returning so quickly does take away from the effect of it all. I mean, I read Cap #25 and I was like, "What just happened?" And then I realized and, well... I'm a crier, okay? But it's pointless to put people through the emotional ringer if you're just gonna retract it again. I really don't like that. Not if you're going to do stuff like "Fallen Son" and whatever.

LOL

Why thank you, Cali, now I'll have to find something more to be bitter about.

I think Bru has done a splendid job so far on this book. And I'm delighted that one of my favorite artists, Steve Epting, has gained many new fans thanks to his work on this book. But it all depends on how it's resolved.

All this return talk reminds me: when I was reading comics in the mid-90s and I learned from solicitations that there was a long story where Cap was dying slowly; I remember very clearly at the time that I had no problem with the idea of Steve Rogers dying. Hell, I even had a # 1 choice for his replacement: Rachel "Diamondback" Leighton. All these years (and one MC2 female Captain America later), I still think Rachel would have made a great Captain America. Of course, that wasn't how things turned out. Instead, Steve survived, Mark Waid came on board, and promptly ignored Rachel in favor of bringing Sharon Carter back to life. It wasn't long after that I quit comics for several years.

If Steve comes back again, I'll be dissapointed, but if Bru & Epting are still doing the book, I'll keep reading. If Steve is replaced, well...that could go either way. I already know there's no way it'll be Rachel, though.

I guess it's official. It is indeed "Avengers/Invaders" (see the "A/I" thread in this forum for the link)

Steve Rogers replacing Steve Rogers? eh. I hope that isn't the case. I wouldn't mind a young new Captain America.

Doesn't anyone else have thoughts (yea or nay) on Diamondback as Captain America? And since Diamondback is being ignored by Brubaker, how about Sharon Carter as Captain America?

I have fond memories of Diamondback back in the day, but I don't think I saw enough of her development to judge whether or not she'd be a good Captain America. I kinda feel that any new Cap, assuming you want him/her to last, you'd need to introduce a new character, someone without the baggage of a previous identity.

I love Diamondback. As Cap though? Actually I don't mind it. As long as she gets her pink hair back. Maybe red for the flag colors. I love 80's outdated punk in comics!

Sharon? eh. She falls under old school sppt characters that should stay dead or not appear. (See: Donald Blake, Pepper Potts, etc)

I honestly would like to see a young American man become Cap. maybe no super soldier serum.

As for the latest issue? It rocked. Great title even with the main character dead. I don't care for the Winter Soldier much (I loved Nomad) but Bru makes him real interesting.

We have the Falcon, Sharon, the Winter Soldier, and the Black Widow all running around doing stuff. All looking beautiful cause the art on this book is amazing. Good superspy story stuff. I ain't complaining.

Just got my Cap Omnibus in the mail today. Damn thing is nearly as big as my Walking Dead Omnibus, almost enough to fight the living dead with.

Anyway, this has the first 25 issues and the two Cap one-shots leading up to his death. Can't wait to get caught up.

Okay, now that I've combined the two Cap thread. *whew*

For some reason, I'd like to see a Native American Captain America.

http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/03/15/comic-book-urban-legends-revealed-94/

And wasn't Cap supposedly a white Native American in 1602?

Then there was "What If...Captain America Fought in the Civil War". He wasn't a Native American but close.

No, that was a time-travelling alternate future Steve Rogers who got shot through the timestream as an "execution", landed in ~1585 and lived with the NAs in the intervening years.

[Complicated, ain't it? ]

So the Falcon has another new costume. The designer went all nostalgic on it by throwng back in the little wings on the abdomen, but I don't think it quite works. Since the classic red/white outfit, the only one of Falc's outfits that has worked for me is the one Coipel drew for his Avengers tenure.

Speaking of new:
THE "NEW" CAP???

Personally, I think the red, white and blue part "floats" too much from the black parts, splitting the figure in half inan awkward manner. I get how it's meant to emulate the shape of his original shield, but it still doesn't quite work for me. It's also weird how he has stuff strapped around his waist, but no actual belt. I also think the shininess of it is going to look very annoying in the wrong hands. (the super-detailed scaly armor of the last few years has been annoying enough)

Some people won't like the sidearm, which I have no problem with, but this *is* the marvel universe, and I hope he'd carry something more advanced than just a regular gun. (though he shouldn't need much more than that shield)