Legion World Forums LEGION COMPANION Dr. Gym'll's Cultural Rarities Captain America

Eh. Marvel killed off my interest in the entire setting at the beginning of Civil War (which I didn't buy, since I have a pesky habit of not forking out money for stuff I don't like), so they can kill off everyone for all I care.

Cap's been character-assassinated six ways from Sunday in the last year, his body's just taken this long to hit the ground and it's arguable that this version of Cap isn't the hero I cared about anyway, so I'm not feeling the grief. (Heck, I'd be jumping up and down singing 'ding dong the witch is dead' if Thor showed up and smote this evil incarnation of Tony Stark into ash for desecrating the person of the Lord of Asgard and usurping the power of the gods to murder another Avenger!)

It's all a big fanfic Altenate Universe as far as I'm concerned, until Wanda Ex Machina comes along and pushes the big re-set button and they start writing stories about *heroes* again.

Five years from now, some new creators will show up and write stories about a Captain America with principles and an Iron Man that isn't a mustachio-twirling villain. Me and my money will be waiting.

This made the evening news in Canada tonight.

Yeah. I just read this story at DailyKos. Not a place that your standard "media blitz" is going to effect much.
Deep in the thread people start speculating on Cap's "resurrection" and the LSH gets a mention for the good old days when a dead hero stayed dead. (?) Specifically Andrew, Lyle and Val. It took a reboot to bring them back.

I just saw the story about it on Nightline.

You know that cover with Captain America punching out Hitler?

I got the impression that Joe Simon could just about replicate that cover, with Joe Q playing the part of Hitler.

It wasn't too long ago Brubaker "killed" the Red Skull too (in a "no, he's *really* dead this time -- see the body?" kinda way) and they managed to bring him back...

How many major comics characters have stayed dead? Hell,they can't even allow most minor ones to rest in piece! I'm afraid even Barry Allen's not going to hold up much longer.

Trust me, Cap's as dead as Superman and Hal Jordan are.

so does this mean that as far as civil war goes cap was wrong?

That's his agruement about Superman too. That's bogus. Heroes are Heroes because who they are, not when they are born or created. What they have done to the Marvel Universie by making it more 'realistic' is crap. Please never let Mark Millar or JOEQ anywhere near DC.

That makes no sense.

Captain America is a timeless embodiment of the best ideals of America. He was created during WW2 as an allegory for the American everyman who when called by a great moral crisis overcame his own physical and psychological limits in the service of the world against oppression.

So the only time he is no longer relevant is if that struggle no longer exists. If they're serious about that interpretation then I have a whole litany of nasty things to say about Marvel's view of contemporary society.

So I guess everyone should go to the local superdiscount warehouse and buy a slave labour produced electronic gizmo because Americans no longer need to overcome anything so long as they have plentiful ever-cheaper consumer goods.

And well part of the problem is sales also. Kids today may not think a WWII vet is so cool anymore. I love Cap...Steve Rogers...but the latest Frontline CW issue did a good job of Cap not being in tune with modern soceity. Is he relevant? Heck yeah. Should people look to his old school ideals? Ofcourse. Do they want to? His book isn't selling very well despite having a great creative team (Brubaker/Eptig!!!).

I've thought in the past maybe they should have a younger guy who people can relate with. Ofcourse Marvel usually messes this up. They will give us a 16 year old skinny kid ala Peter Parker...that seems to be their answer to everything.

No just an ordinary 20 something patriot that isn't a radical...or chops heads off with his shield. You know a normal guy.

I caught this on the news and had it spoiled. I don't he'll stay dead either.

But...

I felt pretty bad for Joe Simon. EDE's pretty right about how Joe feels. Sadly, Joe is 93, and may never live to see Cap coming back. That means one of comics greatest creators and oldest living legends may never get to see Cap alive again.

Something else else about that makes me mad. Fuckin' Joe Quesada.

Joe Q is why I stopped getting any Marvel comics. I even used to like is artwork and know it is all blah.

Oh, I should mention that I haven't read it yet and *will* read it, because I think Brubaker is a tremendous writer and I trust him.

So maybe this will end up being one of the greatest stories in Cap history. Maybe Joe Q will get fired and people can say 'well, after Cap #25, we knew this was coming'. Who knows?

Still feel pretty bad for Joe Simon.

I haven't really read a Marvel comic the mid-80s when I was a kid, and Captain America always seemed like a pretty boring character to me then, but I'm still pretty pissed about this.

One of the cool things from the interview I saw with Simon was that he mentioned that the country is really no more divided today than it was in the 40s when Cap was created. There were apparently people who protested when he had Cap beat up Hitler. But he thought it was important to have the character out there standing up for the particular ideals that Cap was supposed to embody.

By the way, HYSTERICAL Word last night on the Colbert Report on Cap's death, and an equally hysterical article and quotes in the Onion on it. Both made me smile despite my initial thought to head to Manhattan and pull a Namor on the Marvel offices.

check www.newsarama.com for further links...

ok stupid question but doesn't the Super Soldier serum give Steve certain recouperative abilities and if this is a plan to trick the world into thinking he's dead it was probably Nick Fury or someone else that's a trained marksman to shot him no-fataly but have it appear like he was mortally wounded. (but that's just my theroy)

I only glanced at the issue. It looks to me like Sharon Carter (that's who the women is, right?) has been tricked into thinking that she is the one who shot Cap in the abdomen.

If Marvel already has a plan to bring Cap back, like before the movie, they owe it Joe Simon to tell him if they haven't already.

I couldn't have said this any better myself. Cap is as relevant today as he was during WW2, the Viet Nam era, etc. For the PTB at Marvel to think otherwise just proves how out of touch THEY are not Cap.

Looked more to me like she WAS the one who shot him in the gut but - because she was brainwashed'n'all - she didn't realise it until Sin "woke her up". Notice Crossbones wasn't meant to shoot Cap, he was meant to shoot the guard and cause a panic so Sharon could shoot him. Wouldn't it be easier to just post:
http://www.theonion.com/content/amvo/captain_america_killed
http://tinyurl.com/36vx5b

'Boot, haven't you known Cobie long enough to realize that it's much easier for him to wait for someone else to post the direct links?

Point. We are talking about a guy who still hasn't figured out that "straight" has a "g" and an "h" in it yet after all

While I concur with you and Tamper about Cap, Quesada will have the sales numbers to fall back on. Practically everything Civil War, no matter how wretched I think it has been, has sold big time.

What's really depressing is that there was a time that Captain America could sell because he was able to capture the public's imagination.

The fact that the only way that he can get noticed by the mainstream media these days is through controversy or a shocking event, says a lot about both about the state of the comics industry and the state of society.

while there is probably a bit more to it, I think the biggest problem is that there is so much competition from other sources. younger people instead of getting into traditional comic characters are more likely to read/watch Harry Potter or that Ninja avatar kid(did I just mix two shows?). there was teen Jeopardy episode last year(all males), that had a Marvel comics category. out of five questions they only got 1 right.

I think comic books in general are becoming like classic movies or literature. the older stuff is appreciated by older fans(or those that like delving deep ) but the younger crowd is developing and appreciating newer classics.

maybe Captain America(and other characters) should get a MySpace page, but it probably wouldn't help their general popularity to the world at large.