Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Long Live the Legion! Shooter gone @ 50, Bedard re-launching Legion?!?!?!?

The problem is there there is no real evidence to suggest that readers will want to purchase a book with the Lightning Saga Legion. Look at the Action sales figures from CBGxtra.com:

855 (pre-Action Legion) - 55,532
856 (pre-Action Legion) - 53,758
857 (pre-Action Legion) - 51,346
858 (Action Legion) - 54,540
859 (Action Legion) - 54,552
860 (Action Legion) - 56,220
861 (Action Legion) - 56,049
862 (Action Legion) - 55,623
863 (Action Legion) - 56,870
864 (post-Action Legion) - 48,428
865 (post-Action Legion) - 46,751

So that shows there was a slight bump in sales during the Action Legion issues. But it wasn't that big, and probably was attributable to Legion fans picking up the books (or the hype for those issues, which were heavily promoted by DC).

I will admit that I cannot explain why Action sales dropped off so precipitously from the pre-Legion issues once the Legion issues ended, but it could have to do with Superman fans (as opposed to Legion fans) being turned away from their own book by such a long Legion story. Or there might be other factors -- Countdown turned off a lot of DC readers, Trinity (another book with Superman) was on the horizon, etc. However, in terms of proving a large number of readers would pay for a Superman/Legion book -- over a pure Superman book -- the evidence of a large sales bump just isn't there. At most, you're talking a few thousand more people reading the Action Legion issues than the non-Legion Action issues.

So you have the Superman/LSH selling about 55,000 in Action compared to about 25,000 buying the threeboot books. But what does that mean for an ongoing series? I see three options.

First, the Legion could become a supporting player to Superman in Action on a regular basis. It is possible that the numbers will remain at the Action levels, but nobody is really sure that will happen once the novelty of the Superman LSH wears off. Moreover, if numbers drop from the Superman-only levels, DC will probably have to dump Legion.

Second, DC could launch a new book with Superman and the Legion (again with the Legion being a supporting player). But can the market bear another Superman book? Tangent has been selling just over 20,000, actually less than the threeboot Legion book.

Third, DC could launch a book with the Action Legion, with only occasional appearances by Superman. However, no Legion standalone book has been successful on an ongoing basis.

Obviously, any new book is likely to get some boost over the current book's numbers based on some crossover from Lo3W. But there is no guarantee that people who are picking up Lo3W are going to keep buying a Legion book that is unconnected with the giant crossover event. After six months, the "new" Legion book could very well be at the same sales level as the threeboot.

DC is making a huge leap of faith here, and I don't fully understand it. Unless the threeboot book is actually losing money, which I find unlikely given that lower-selling books are still on the market, there really is no reason to cancel the threeboot yet. The one thing we know is that Legion fans are loyal. It could very well be that DC could launch a new Legion book alongside the threeboot and have both perform okay. It just seems premature to eliminate the threeboot and put all the eggs in the Action Legion basket when the Action Legion's success is not remotely assured.

While I do agree with your assessment, I think DC's been realising in the past few years that they have a success on their hand each time they "rebooted" a classic version of the character or team... Teen Titans, Hawkman, Green Lantern, JSA, and soon Barry Flash... All with Geoff Johns.
It's no coincidence that DC could think the same thing is possible with the Legion after the Lightning Saga and the Supermand and the LSH réintroduced the 'Original' Legion.

It's risky, yes, but a relaunch may be more lucrative for DC at this point, even if it fails down the line.

Thanks again for the kind words guys. The Legion was probably one of the most challenging books I've drawn to date. I found it both fun and frustrating at the same time, but I wouldn't have traded the experience for anything else. I'm just glad to have contributed to the legacy of the Legion. But there's still a few more issues left so lets just sit back and enjoy the ride!

Or, what I think, this bump was caused by every edition having an alternate cover (1 to 10).

You've summed up very capably why the Legion is probably taking its longest vacation ever in the history of the franchise. If LO3W didn't include the ultimate fate of Superboy Prime, the resurrection of Bart Allen, the future legacy of Green Lantern, and the words "Final Crisis" splashed across it covers, its sales would be even more tepid than Action's. (Alternate covers, indeed. Action should be DC's flagship title but even Johns' popularity can't lift it out of the middle range). The fact DC is declining to exploit the momentum of LO3W, but instead letting the LSH lie fallow for an indefinite time, means they know LO3W is not an accurate barometer of the future success of the Johnsboot.

Goeff Johns will have to jump through hoops over the next few years to convince TPTB he can transform it into a self-sustaining franchise once again (2011 or later). In the meantime, the Legion is radioactive to every other creator except Levitz -- and he's good only for a nostalgia arc.

"That's another fine mess you got me in, Stanley."

Francis, you've won my admiration. I hope DC keeps you around for a very long time. Imo, you have what it takes to be a real star.

Here, here! I think you should have lots of opportunities, and join the ranks of ex-Legion artists that went on to a great career.

Definitely let us know where you end up next Francis! You've got a whole slew of fans now that will follow you from book to book!

Ditto! Your artwork is wonderful...rich and captivating. I look forward to seeing your work in your next assignments.

So do we know what the actual plan once the current series is cancelled and L3W is over? Is there anything on the schedule for 2009? I will be very disappointed if there isn't--it seems like there has been some Legion momentum in the last year or so, if they let it die with a whimper I worry that that might be it for a while...

We do not. There is not.

Many people are speculating, some with theories more plausible than others. My theory is that DC doesn't know what it's doing next and that it could be a long, long time before they decide.

I'm with you, brother... I still can see a Levitz/Giffen book coming up before long, but as for a monthly, I don't see that for some time. And not even Johns will make it much stronger than Shooter's.

So, let me get this straight:

- The Legion FINALLY gets public exposure with a cartoon, which had reasonable ratings and was only canceled due to business dealing...they even had McDonald's toys

- DC FINALLY decides to clean up the long running LSH continuity mess and bring back the more popular originals, creating a 5 part mini-series of 40 pages PER VOLUME (200 pages, a novel!!!)

- Plans are in the works to FINALLY have a live version of LSH characters, in the form of a Smallville episode...

And you all are saying that, in the aftermath of all that, they are going to cancel the book entirely??? It doesn't make any sense to me.

I think any citations on sagging sales figures should be normalized to the OVERALL change in sales figures for ALL DC books...I imagine with the economy the way it is, people are probably buying a lot less comics in general.

I don't know what those figures would be, nor am I an insider in any way... but I just think that it is highly counter-intuitive that they'd put so much effort into the LSH, then drop the book entirely, when for years they made 1 and even 2 titles a month that weren't even very popular.

Nobody is sure what will happen after Lo3W. There may be an ongoing book with the Johns Legion, possibly a LoSH title or Action. There also may be a time when the Legion is a back-up or shares a book. We just don't know right now.

I do agree with you that it would be weird, after all events that have increased the Legion's visibility in the DCU, to have no Legion book at all. However, DC's handling of the Legion has not been very logical. Just the fact that most of the efforts you have described involve different versions of the Legion. If DC had made a concerted attempt to promote a single Legion in all arenas, it would have helped. Instead, there is the cartoon Legion (which bears no real resemblance to any version), the Johns' Action Legion (which is not yet developed), and the Threeboot (which has received virtually no promotion whatsoever). It seems to me that DC had a golden opportunity to use the cartoon to promote the Legion comic, but failed miserably. Since the Johns Legion is obviously the one that will come out of Lo3W, I hope he makes the Smallville characters consistent. (I have to admit some disappointment with using the founders only, as is rumored. While I think hardcore Legion fans will enjoy Lightning Lad, Cosmic Boy and Saturn Girl, I think there are other members who would be more intriguing to non-Legion fans. There powers seem pretty basic, especially considering viewers saw Cosmic Boy's and Saturn Girl's powers used in the X-Men movie. I would rather see more Legionnaires, along with a broader display of powers and non-humanoid beings.)

Is the message from DC purely based on Lo3W running late and they don't want to announce anything until it's finished its run (or at least have a creditable date for the series finishing).

It would be crazy to have a Legion V6 starting in Feb if Lo3W #5 doesn't hit the shops until March or April (or May or June.....)

Let's hope DC have a Legion V6 waiting to roll off the presses.

Reality check and recheck:

"We've got a lot of plans and a lot of thought for the Legion right now, but coming out of the Legion of 3 Worlds, we're going to let the characters rest for a little bit and see where we go from there," he [Dan Didio] said.
...

So Newsarama asked DiDio: Is it possible there will be a Johns-penned series featuring the Legion of Super-Heroes in the future?

"You know what? I think we'd love Geoff to write everything right now. But realistically, he's got a pretty full slate with everything that's going on," DiDio said. "He's got Flash, Green Lantern, JSA, Action, and specials coming up because this thing called Blackest Night is looming. But I'm sure that the Legion will stay close to Geoff and near and dear to him as well, and you'll probably see some of them appear through some of his runs down the line. I don't want to give too much away. But there's always plans for the Legion. " They're an important part of the DC Universe. And more importantly, I think we've done a great job with the story. I think Jim and Francis have done a great job bringing it to an end. And after Legion of 3 Worlds, there will be more opportunities, so we're going to explore those after that series concludes."


I don't think Didio could be more straightforward. The monthly series is being put to bed with #50. The entire Legion franchise goes for a rest after LO3W. Some of the characters will "probably" appear afterwards in Geoff Johns' other books down the line (he's not sure). Johns is unable to write an ongoing Legion series in the near future (which GJ has confirmed independently). Some fuzzy hints of other (unrumored) plans, but for the present time, DC is going to "see where we go from here." and explore other opportunities -- which in plain English translates as "We don't know exactly what to do yet, so don't hold your breath."

If some folks want to interpret Didio's remarks more optimistically, that's their perogative, but there's little evidence for it. The only project even to be mentioned as a tenuous possibility after LO3W is a Levitz/GIffen arc, but at last mention Levitz wouldn't committ to it for lack of time. Maybe some tie-ins with Bedard's L.E.G.I.O.N. There may very well be other ideas floating around in the Didio's head, but another monthly Legion series would not appear to be one of them.

I agree with you, Tromium, but I can also see some space for a revamped Action Comics with LSH as cameo characters. Not a new series, but "return to secondary characters" to Superman.

...and, as so many have been so tight-lipped, this could be a smokescreen.

If the idea is to put LSH to bed for a while, then why have L3W at all?

The idea of "putting the characters to bed" is ridiculous. I mean, we're not talking about Doom Patrol here--we're talking about a title that has a decades long history of continuous publishing at DC that exceeds the track record of, say, Wonder Woman or Teen Titans. Plus, as many have said, this is about as critcal a mass as the Legion has had since the Baxter series. What a bunch of crap. I do hope it's a smokescreen, but if it is, it's the worst kind of bait and switch poor salesmanship I've seen from a comic book compnay in a while, and that's saying something.

Rereading the thread, I think the JSA comparison is a good one--fractured history, characters that don't seem to fit well elsewhere in DC continuity--but until a team like Robinson and Johns comes along, are we screwed? I'm feeling screwed right now...in a remarkably unpleasant way.

Aaaugh, I agree that the quote from Didio does NOT sound good....

although, if instead you embolden:

"I don't want to give too much away. But there's always plans for the Legion."

you can walk away much more optimistically

Also, it makes sense (as Silver Age Lad points out) that nothing will start until after LO3W ends...

Perhaps even, they are (shock!) FINALLY going to ACTUALLY base their decision on reader REACTION ... which they often say, but never actually happens, if one examines the timing of when projects would have to have been initiated and compares them to when reaction would have been received... so this does of course require waiting and patience.

I'd be willing to go Legion-less for 6 months if I knew that at the end of it, I'd get something
a) good
b) (for me personally) something respectful of the "traditional" LSH
3) something that will LAST for awhile!

An idea: - perhaps they are considering bringing
LSH back to the NEWSSTAND, rather than comic-shop only? For that to work, it would help if parents recognized it...ergo, the "Johns" Legion..but it would also help if it was recognizably related to the toon.

I just reread the entire Shooter run thus far. Like TMK, it reads better in a single sitting.

Now I actually will miss this version, but I'm still convinced we will see the Neoclassic Legion in its own book after L3W.