Legion World Forums LEGION COMPANION Dr. Gym'll's Cultural Rarities Random DCnU Revue

Edit to delete, being discussed elsewhere!

DC Comics Presents: Deadman #4 - this series has been a breakout hit or me since it launched but #4 really took it to the next level. This was an utterly fantastic issue that combined the fantastic story-telling abilities of the creative team with a welcomingly complex and existential topic. As I've said before, this is the best Deadman has been written since his original appearances in the late 1960's; I'm hoping there is a long ongoing Deadman series following the end of this arc by the creative team.

Just read The Shade #1 and #2. Great reads. So nice to see James Robinson back in his familiar stomping grounds of Opal City.

Cully Hamner on art is always a treat. I actually discovered both of them as a team on the Ultraverse title Firearm.

Looking forward to the rest of this series.

I pulled out my copies of Animal Man 1-6 and Swamp Thing 1-6 but couldn't figure out what order to read them in. AM #5 ends with someone saying "only Swamp Thing can help us now", yet there doesn't seem to be any direct continuation in the ST book. Any idea how the timelines of these two books fit together?

They don't yet. They are still building towards the meeting. You can alternate books 1-1, 2-2, etc to see some interesting parallels with the Rot, but they haven't directly impacted each other yet.

Yes, I agree with Dave. Alternating in numerical order is the best approach. Animal Man #6 takes a bit of a detour to allow Swamp Thing to catch up.

Yeah, it was that complete departure from the ongoing storyline in AM #6 that made me think I had missed something.

Having finally read thru December's comics today, I finally feel I'm ready to assess the New 52 (or what I've read of it) thru 4 months:

The Best of the Best: A to A+

Animal Man
Batman
Catwoman
Swamp Thing

These all met or exceeded my expectations and are definite top-of-the-pile DC books. All feature the right combination of great art, interesting characters and clever, riveting storylines to keep me hooked for the longterm. Catwoman was a particular surprise and belongs in this group because it exceeded my expectations the most as it didn't even make the original pull list!


Very Good, Solidly on Pull: B to A-

Action Comics
All-Star Western
Aquaman
Batgirl
Batwoman
Flash

All of these are solid. Most people put Action and Batwoman in the upper echelons, but I've had some problems with them that are storytelling-related. Morrison's a bit obtuse for me at times, but Action is improving every single issue, I must say. Batwoman is a little high on art and low on story but is a joy to experience. Same with Flash. Batgirl is much better than the hate its gotten because of the Oracle retcon. Western is a delight seeing Gray and Palmiotti tell continuing stories for a change, and the backups are lights-out!


Average and Potentially in Danger: C to B-

Green Lantern
Justice League
Justice League Dark
Legion
Legion Lost
Nightwing

Honestly, if I wasn't such a huge Legion fan, the quality of those two launches would have already merited a drop. Though the art in both is really good, the stories are pretty "blah" at best. Overall, Levitz has failed to impress on his return to the Legion, IMO, with the exceptions of the annual and an issue here and there. Issue 4 of Lost was an improvement, and I'll see what DeFalco brings to it when he comes on. I'm such a fan of the characters that there's a good chance I'll continue indefinitely, but maybe I'll just get too fed up at some point.

JL is just too simplistic and juvenile, and JLDark is too confusing and decompressed.

GL is actually decent so far with its comparatively narrow focus (compared to how the previous volume ended) on Hal and Sinestro. But it's on a short leash if it strays too far.

Nightwing is in fairly decent shape, but I've only read two issues so far. I need to catch up on that one to make a better assessment. I've bought more, so I'll know more when I get to those stacks.


Tried and Already Dropped: F to C-

Detective Comics
Firestorm
Frankenstein, Agent of S.H.A.D.E.
Green Arrow
Green Lantern Corps
Justice league International
OMAC
Resurrection Man
Superman
Wonder Woman

Detective wowed me with its first issue like most people, but did a fast fade with subsequent issues. Issue 4 was my last. Didn't help that the infamous cliffhanger of issue one was left to be picked up at a later time. The whole violence of the storyline was a turn-off. Didn't belong in a book called "Detective" at all. Dollmaker was very underwhelming.

Green Arrow was very generic and uninspiring. Same with JLI. I'm likely to try GA again when Nocenti begins, depending on the reviews.

Firestorm was a HUGE disappointment! I'd been waiting on a Firestorm book featuring Ronnie Raymond for a looooong time, but this one dropped a great big deuce. It made my initial pull, but I was done after 3 issues.

GLC, I read the first issue. And you know what I got? Yet another storyline beginning with Green Lantern redshirts getting slaughtered. Been there and done that, guys. It's lazy storytelling, pure and simple, and holds no more emotional resonance at this time. Dropped it with one. It disappointed me so much that I never bothered to even try New Guardians, though the idea of a rainbow Corps-centric was an initial turn-off, anyway.

Frankenstein has potential and would have been in the previous list above had it not been announced that Lemire was leaving the book soon. I saw a lot to like but lots of room for improvement, especially in character development. Not willing to see through a big creative switch, so I made a clean break with issue 4 and the end of the initial story.

OMAC, I tried because people here recommended it. Not a bad book at all, just one I could give or take. The announcement of its cancellation made it easy for me to stop after three issues.

Resurrection Man had the potential with its creative team and concept to be a real sleeper. But when your central character doesn't know who he is, it makes for a book light on character. Plus, DnA feel obligated to kill him off at least once or twice an issue, usually in grisly fashion, so we can see his powers at work. I stopped with issue three. I'll be curious to see if it ever meets its potential.

Superman's opening arc was dreadfully dull with related elemental-type villains popping up for him to fight. Just didn't seem worth waiting for it to all come together. I'll see what Giffen and Jurgens bring to the table in the reviews, but three issues was enough.

Wonder Woman....well, I got the first two issues half-price (along with Nightwing 1-2) and just wasn't impressed enough to pick up more. Not enough of an idea as to who this Diana is as a character and too much decompression. I just wasn't patient enough to wait on a book that's ordinarily a hard sell for me in normal circumstances.


So the rest, I didn't even try. That's half of them that I did try and half I didn't. I'm always watching and waiting for reviews here and elsewhere, so there's always a chance. Of all those I didn't try, the Deadman run in Presents is probably the main one I regret. Possibly New Guardians as well. The rest are pretty much what I thought they were.

Definitely look to pick up Earth-2, World's Finest and Batman, Inc. of the upcomind "Second Wave".

Following Lardy's lead, I've now had ample time to consider where I stand with the DCnU 52 and whether I will continue or not. Some titles have picked up steam while more have fizzled a bit; many have won me over while a few have begun to bore me after the initial convincing me to keep buying. 

A+, Best of the Best
Action Comics
Batman
Batwoman
Flash
All-Star Western
Swamp Thing
Wonder Woman
Catwoman
DC Comics Presents - note, Deadman story is why graded this way; we'll see about upcoming Challs story.

A to A-, definite buys
Men of War - hate to see this one go; G.I. Combat will be welcome but it's an entirely different approach 
Animal Man
Batwing
Birds of Prey
Superboy
Green Lantern
Nightwing
Aquaman
Stormwatch 

B+ to B-, Certainly good enough to keep buying but room for improvement
Superman - each issue has got progressively more boring, change in creative team could reverse slide 
Justice League
Justice League International
Justice League Dark
Legion of Super Heroes
Legion Lost
Legion: Secret Origins
Frankenstein: Agent of SHADE
Demon Knights
New Guardians - possibly deserves to be in higher echelon 
OMAC - will finish it out loving it 
Teen Titans - much better than I thought it would be 
Thunder Agents 

C+ to C-, mediocre at best and may be coming to and end for me
Green Lantern Corps
Captain Atom
Blue Beetle
Fury of Firestorm
Supergirl
Green Arrow - waiting for Nocenti to start
Detective Comics
Batman & Robin
Grifter
Voodoo - I like it but need something more each issue 

Dropped
Hawk & Dove
Static Shock
Mr. Terrific
Batgirl 
Dark Knight
Hawkman
Red Lanterns
Suicide Squad
I, Vampire
Blackhawks
Red Hood & the Outlaws
Resurrection Man
My Greatest Adventure 

Never Tried
Deathstroke
Batman Beyond

Next 6
I intend to try all 6. Each one has things that interest me, but also something to give me slight reservations.

Just a little follow-up on the Deadman story which I've now finished. I praised it througout and won't rehash, but I have to say I think its the single best Deadman story published since the original Arnold Drake run in 1968-69. Jenkins & Chang really blew me away here and I wish that it would spin-off into an ongoing series by this creative team.

I think they did a fantastic job showing how a Deadman series could actually work going forward. It asked some pretty big questions about life...and actually came up with some pretty big answers!

I actually enjoyed the recent Challengers of the Unknown opener in DC Comics Presents; once again I'm surprised that something by Dan Didio has impressed me though it's become clear now he can be a great supplemental partner to an artist that also is co-plotter / director.

Most of all, I liked the mysterious tone and eerie sensibility to the story. The 'what the hell is going on?' feeling worked well and kept me interested throughout. The sudden flash to and from Nanda Parbat was abrupt and heightened this.

I also liked the large cast and was glad to see most of them get a lot of moments. The way Ace was so mysteriously and ambiguously handled (Ace being my favorite Chall) made me dying to know where they are going with him since it's unlikely he's real dead. There is potential there for an ongoing mystery and pay-off--if they can follow up right.

Jerry Ordway is not only a great artist, he's a fantastic story-teller. He excels in how the panels flow from one to the next. A variety of inlets assisted and the coloring was great. But the prettiest part of the issue was that fantastic cover.

I'm a huge Challs fan as when I was a kid my uncle would read me the early Kirby Challs issues. When Cooke did them so well in New Frontier (and Waid to a lesser extant in Brave and Bold), it reminded me how badly I'd like a Challs series. While ideally a Cooke series in the thematic style of NF is the best option, I do appreciate DC trying to find a way to make the concept fresh and modern by injecting some Lost-ish sensibility.

I finally read some comics!!

Still enjoying the oddness of FRANKENSTEIN AGENT OF SHADE. The crossover with OMAC was fun (I still love OMAC too). I've caught up with both of those now!

Just read BATWOMAN 3-6. As my primary draw to this was Bette Kane/Flamebird, I am now dropping this book.

Now that we're six months into the DCNu, it's kind of amazing to look back at my numbers of what books I'm still reading. The attrition is pretty high, though I was expecting that to gradually be the case. After issue #1, I was still reading 46 of the new 52 titles. Now after issue #6, I'm down to 16 titles ...and dropping.

<span style="font-size: 14px;">Loving</span>
Batwing, Batwoman, and Teen Titans

<span style="font-size: 14px;">Keeping</span>
Aquaman, Catwoman, Green Lantern, Justice League, Legion Lost, Legion of Super-Heroes, Red Hood and the Outlaws, Voodoo, and Wonder Woman

<span style="font-size: 14px;">Borderline</span>
Action Comics, Animal Man, Green Lantern: New Guardians, and Supergirl

Of the five titles I was 'loving' after issue #1, I'm only still reading three with one on the fence. Swamp Thing suffered simply from my lack of exposure to the character. I enjoyed the first issue but between months my interest (and recollection of the previous issue) waned. Superman did a steep drop off for me with issue #3. It was as if it had a guest writer, which it didn't. While I love the Legion, the adult Legion story in Action Comics actually lost me a bit on the title.

I'm not surprised only four of the 13 titles I was originally 'on the line' about remain. What surprises me is that one of them I'm now loving - Teen Titans. Another, Wonder Woman, I started loving after issue #2 but then last issue I began to fell off the excitement wagon. It's safely in my 'keep' pile for now.

Some titles held out for a good while, but I found them to simply be 'decent reads' that I'd forget about the day after and felt no thrill when the next issue was released. Several titles I'm surprised I could let go this quick, especially with brand loyalty (GLC, Flash) and favorite creators (Batgirl + Gail). If it's not exciting you consistently though, what's the point? There's always the trades to visit later for a second chance - I think a few of those titles will benefit from that reading format.

I'm also surprisingly enjoying Teen Titans!

You're right Future on the unfortunate ongoing feeling that a few more series will get the axe. Each month I find myself with one or more series that feels like a chore to read--which means it's time to cut it. This month it's Voodoo for me. Possibly Grifter and GLC soon.

With so many exciting things coming in 2012, especially from Image, I'm not giving DC or Marvel a free pass on anything anymore. If it doesnt excite me, I gotta make room for one I do enjoy.

Still just Legion of Super-Heroes, Legion Lost, Legion Secret Origins and Teen Titans. I'll probably drop Teen Titans after the culling crossover, since it's beginning to wear thin for me.

I recently picked up the Stormwatch run 1-5 just because it had good word of mouth, but it didn't float my boat. I played a superhero game ages ago that had 'high concept' powers like 'prince of lies' or 'controls media,' and I didn't really like that level of pretension then, and certainly don't find it all that innovative now, decades after it was a new thing. Ever since Alan Moore took Swamp Thing 'high concept,' I feel like everyone and their dog has been attempting to do the same to old characters and new, with breath-taking lack of success, grabbing on to catch-phrases like 'Last Son of Krypton' and rewriting the character and their supporting cast to make the catch-phrases *literal* truths, as the marketing phrases and buzz-words become more important than the character themselves.

It eventually becomes so forced and desperate that some nimrod attempts to convince us that Garth, Imra and Rokk are embodiments of 'truth, justice and the American way.'

TL;DR I blame Alan Moore. He wrote something high concept and it worked. Now 10,000 writers who have no damn idea what he did or how he did it are trying to use some sort of formula to do that same sort of thing to everything else they can get their hands on.

I've caught up with a few more books!

ANIMAL MAN-- I'm dropping it. The art that interested me so much the first couple of issues now just looks ugly to me. And I am not caring for the family being split as it is, with have-powers and have-not powers.

SWAMP THING-- Still into it! I'm as surprised as anyone!

STORMWATCH-- The end of # 5 took me by surprise!! So much so that I waited to read # 6! # 6 will decide wether or not I keep it-- I rather enjoyed the "high concept" superpowers, and if all of those players have been killed, this will just be another take on the JLA. That said, I really enjoyed 1-5!

^ If it matters any, Animal Man is changing artists within the next few issues.

Eh. I'm just not that into it. Gave it a fair enough chance with 5 issues. It's axe-swinging time at Lash's place... time to get the pull bag back down to a reasonable level now that the new has totally worn off the 52 relaunch.

Also cut all Green Lantern books, and All-Star Western (mainly due to price there, as I recall issues 1-2 were pretty good).

JLA may be another cut due to price-- $4 turns me OFF.

ACTION is definitely cut after I buy the Legion issues, which still sit in my pull bag.

I've read a couple of very troubling articles on Bleeding Cool about the seventh issues of some DCnU books, all of which has me wondering yet again just what audience DC is courting. Warning: both articles have major SPOILERS!!

Justice League 7

Batman 7, Wonder Woman 7

>sigh<

Glad I am only into the Legion and darker corner of the new DC...at least the books that are supposed to be darker.

With Omac ending, that really leaves Flash as my only mainstream DCnU book. Everything else is on the fringes of Vertigo country.

I'm down from 16 titles after #6 of the DCNu to 12 titles, and the #7s aren't even fully out yet! It was all just too much unless I cared about it. Ended up dropping Justice League, New Guardians, Animal Man, and Action Comics.

So as time goes on, I’m feeling less and less enthusiastic about the DCnU. I’m not sure what it is, but I’m just not feeling it. So many of these series are kind of limping along month to month already. Plus the over abundance of shocking gore in the non-dark titles is alarming and takes me right out of the story (I’m looking at you Detective Comics). I haven’t read the spoilers on WW #7 and Batman #7 yet, but I don’t like the trepidation others are expressing because those are actually two of my favorite comics.

At this point, I’m going to change my DCnU list to Future’s above format.

<span style="font-size: 14px;">Loving</span>
Flash
All-Star Western
Swamp Thing
Wonder Woman
Catwoman
Nightwing
Teen Titans
Superboy
Batman

<span style="font-size: 14px;">Decent</span>
Action Comics
Batwoman
Animal Man
Batwing
Birds of Prey
Green Lantern
New Guardians
Aquaman
Stormwatch
Legion Lost

<span style="font-size: 14px;">Borderline</span>
DC Comics Presents
Superman
Justice League
Justice League International
Justice League Dark
Legion of Super Heroes
Frankenstein: Agent of SHADE
Demon Knights
Thunder Agents
Fury of Firestorm
Green Arrow

On some series, the early change in creative teams did the series no favors. Green Arrow has been a mess, but I’m hopeful Nocenti’s early issues will quickly change that. Stormwatch having a two-part filler has been pretty ‘meh’, with Jenkins plot not doing it for me.

Considering I started with all the DC series, I’ve culled the list down pretty good. That won’t stop anytime soon. There are getting to be less and less DC series that excite me.

BTW, as a moderator, I'm considering deheadlining this thread now that several months have passed since the DCnU relaunch, to make it stand on its own (living and dying on interest by the community).

What do you guys think? Let me know. Silence is acquiescence.

But, if silence is acquiesance, does that mean that replying is dissent?

Anywho, yeah, the DCnU launch is more than six months out, so it's probably time to toss this thread into the cold, Shark Lad-infested waters, and see if it can swim.