Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Long Live the Legion! Shooter gone @ 50, Bedard re-launching Legion?!?!?!?

Lying in the Gutters

More San Diego creator talk tells me that the Jim Shooter’s "Legion Of Super Heroes" title ends with issue #50.

It will be replaced with a new Tony Bedard LSH project, and the Levitz/Giffen Legion project will also see publication.

I'm also told that the junior book "The Legion Of Super Heroes In The 31st Century," is also coming to an end with issue 20.

The future seems an uncertain place.

Link
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=17578


And check this out.
http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=217664

I just posted on Lardy's Roundtable... heheh

Bad move for DC. Next time, they will bring Judd Winick and Conner Hawke to Legion, move them to the 21st Century and create characters like XS and the Snake Monstress!

I also posted my dissatisfaction at CBR if that is true.

I guess DC just cannot accept that LSH is never going to be a top book and that constantly screwing around with the title only alienates the most loyal fans in comics. We are never going to recover the glory days of Levitz/Giffen, so why keep trying? As a fan, I don't see why I should commit to yet another reboot when it is likely to last only a few years, at most?

As for Bedard, I thought his issues on the threeboot were the worst of the series -- and I was not a fan of Waid's inability to develop characters that were three-dimensional. I'm not looking forward to him getting the keys to the kingdom.

I sure hope DC doesn't screw this up again,or I might find myself not buying the Legion for the first time in thirty five years,enough is enough.

Restore the Pre-Crisis Legion continuity and characters,reintroduce the characters from 5YL and the Zero Hour reboot that don't have counterparts into that continuity as new characters keeping them as close to their original concepts as possible,and build upon that history,respect the characters and their fans,quit tearing it apart and rebooting it.

That so many leaders of the industry grew up loving this, what is now an obscure little title, might be telling. Perhaps to them it is about more than just the bottom line?

If I were in their position I could think of a few reasons I would keep trying to publish this title, even if it wasn't at the top of the profit margin.

1) The old, it appealed to me when I was younger so it's good enough for the kids of today. Okay, that would be an outlandish reason to continue to publish but stranger things...

2) We can tell an important story with this setting that we cannot with the others available. I kind of see this as a reason that would most motivate an opinionated, creative type.

If I believe a thought is sound and important but I'm not having success communicating it, I'm going to continue to try and find a way to get my point over. Legion has generally been wrapped around moralities. This is fairly unique I think. There are a few, like Spectre whose existence is morality based but for the most part, the comics characters' job is just to be "super." Huge boobs help.


I think perhaps they have accepted that it's not going to be a "big seller," but perhaps they hope that with the right telling it can still be viable enough to be responsible to the stock holders without selling out the premise.

I saw this earlier today. I've been enjoying Shooter's run up to this point, so it will be sad to see him go.

But I am very excited for the Levitz/Giffen project.

Not really a regular reader of "Lying in the Gutters," here, so let me defer to those who are. How accurate have you all found these green lighted stories to be in the past?

The reason I ask is that all the references I've seen to the "Shooter's departure" story (going back to at least Mid-May) have only ever cited Rich Johnston, and no other source. Don't title shake-ups of this sort tend to be a little more widely reported?

I'm not sure. But he also stated that Brubaker would be leaving Uncanny X-Men shortly. Even though, Brubaker/Fraction (who have only written one issue as a team) have made it seem that they have long-term plans for the X-Men. So I can't be sure.

I don't frequently read his column, or post on his board. So I can't be sure.

Time for "Four-boot"!

Geoff Johns was so quiet about everything involving Legion at the SDCC so I figured Legion would go to # 50 and then get re-started.

Is this the same Levitz/Giffen Legion project that Giffen publicly denied the existence of?

So far, Rich has only claimed "yellow" light for notes of Shooter's departure. This time, he went green, which is very frequently on the mark. And he is probably right, because:

1) DC is working the Action Legion like crazy right now. Not only it is the star of both Superman and Final Crisis, but there are 2 HC collections of Baxter material coming up soon, even though there wouldn't be any reason to do so EXCEPT because events prior to Superman and The Legion of Super-Heroes are set just before the Crisis.

2) Giffen and Levitz have hinted in SDCC that they would be working on something. Giffen was particularly vocal to whenever Paul wanted to do it, he would do it.

3) Tony Bedard has said (on the link provided above) he is working on a team book and kind of said that "while Shooter was on the book, he wouldn't take it". If he is gone... And apparently some people may have been happy with his very weak fill-in arch.

He denied there was one set firmly at that moment, but he also said Paul was less resistant this time. So, there might be something cooking in there.

Is this the same Rich Johnston that 3 weeks ago was saying Shooter was done, and then 2 weeks ago was saying he'd patched things up?


In any case...issue 50 equals 13 issues by Shooter and he promised a 16 issue arc...sounds about right.


The truth of the matter is, Shooter's run hasn't sold well(but then neither did Bedard's or W&K's on it's own merits)...but the Legion is getting down to the numbers and ranks to where they relaunch it(unless it's the Reboot Legion, and then they give it 2 books and publish it for 8 years). So I don't see a big deal about DC or Shooter both not wanting to continue it...

And besides...as evidenced on this forum, a lot of people don't really like Shooter.

What I am interested in seeing...is if Shooter gets any work after this at DC or elsewhere.


Where it becomes curious is with the Bedard news...I liked Tony's run...but this announcement does not live up to the buildup LO3W is setting Legion Fans up for.

It is very underwhelming, and I expect this will likely be immediately reflected in the sales numbers of what ever relaunch they do, it'll be right there @30k and slipping...unless of course it is the Action...


But I'm thinking maybe something happened and DC is not going to be able to go ahead with their Action plans...maybe the Superboy litigation has taken a step back.


Except then doesn't make sense, because then why relaunch the current title?

Wouldn't it then make sense to use L3W to boost the profile of the current tile...and keep it going? Instead of another relaunch?


Or maybe this is all a red herring...

I don't think it is red herring, Superboy, and you can feel it too. However, something came up now: Rich says a Tony Bedard PROJECT will come up after Shooter, but not a new monthly or Tony-as-a-new-writer sort of thing. Thus, might it be a Legion Worlds-style maxi-series in order to wrap things up with L3W? I really don't see viability in a monthly Tony Bedard Legion #1 at all. And I still think they are trying to find a spot in Johns schedule for him to grab the LSH.

I agree with all of that...but I am not ready to rule out Red Herring either because Didio did have fake covers printed up for Flash and posted to the internet to cover up his Flash plans.

Could be Tony closing up shop on the W&K...

The Legion it seems remains cursed.

You do make a valid point about Johns schedule though...I definitely think he wants to write the Legion though...I think he wants the challenge of seeing if he can make all Legion fans happy. That is probably the greatest challenge in all of comics.

ahhh i know what the tony bedard project is and it's not LSH. that's all i can say, it's driving me crazy 8____8 but i promised not to say! at the time i didn't think it would be hard to shut up @_____@!!!

If that's the case, then maybe we're all thinking the wrong L.E.G.I.O.N.?

one other thing, wasn't he ALWAYS only scheduled for a certain amount of issues? like why are we surprised?

I believe he was originally scheduled for 16 issues. If the run ends at #50 I think that makes it 13 instead and will conclude with the Dec 08 issue, about the same time as Final Crisis concludes (and L3W also I think)

Sounds to me like someone is trying to coordinate something...

I couldn't agree with LWL more, this has to be the way forward.

Listening to Geoff Johns talking about how he wants to make the publuc love Legion characters - mentioning Dawnstar and XS by name, it sounds like this is what is happening. What's the point of making the public love characters that are about to be rebooted out of existence?

Who will write it and who will draw it are the real questions. Johns avoided answering questions on whether he was taking over, giving the impression that he was. Is FJM's run tied to JS's or will Francis continue? If not how about Scott Koblish after L3W?

i really don't care which version of the legion it is, as long as its well written and there's a brainiac 5 in there. an invisible teen and dream girl would also be nice.

every legion had its pros and cons. i don't know why people are so anti-reboots. i like getting a new legion every now and then. there are like 50 different spiderman incarnations, who cares? it's still spiderman! it's still legion! i read some elseworlds two part miniseries thing the other day that was called superboys legion, it was totally different and still really fun! it's like listening to a remix, sometimes, the fast version with the drum and bass sounds A LOT BETTER than the original, because it's more modern. legion incorporated gay people, minorities, and feminism over the years, i so do NOT want to lose those things in favor of nostalgia. and if johns is heading it up, i think we'll get a mix of classic with modern know-how.

if we really kept to the old legion, it'd be saturn girl, lightning lad and cosmic boy showing up in a time bubble, jacking superboy in the face, making him cry and then going "OH A MISUNDERSTANDING. SEE YOU LATER, PAL." Then Star Boy would kill Kenz Nuhor and Superboy would suddenly think he could be a lawyer and do really embarrassing things.

i'm not really one of those people that craves older legion, actually, because i want the characters to be YOUNG. so i'm a little worried it'll be "legion of 50 year olds"... but even then, i really liked the action comics run and i'd still read it. BECAUSE IT WAS WELL WRITTEN. older garth utterly, yet accidentally, dissing batman-hand-shake was AMAZING.

Come on, at least READ it first before freaking out, guys.

As long as some version of the Action Legion survives FC/L3W, I'm happy.

If it is the main/only LSH book, all the better - but I'd prefer if Reboot and Threeboot tales can from time to time appear...a la Earyh 2 pre-Crisis.

I don't hate Shooter, and some of his recent stuff has been good, but even he can only do so much with a tepid foundation.

I would be disappointed to see Mr. Shooter leave the series, because I think the stories this past 6 months have made the Legion more interesting than it has been in decades.

Another reboot would be a disaster, as we would have the 'two-steps backward' routine Legion fans have experienced way too often now with a new writer implementing and constructing his/her 'vision'- convoluted re-origins and twisted re-telling of old characters and stories which never seem to be any better than the originals.

The Waid reboot never grabbed me, but Shooter has turned into something I would like to see continued. I would like to see Progression for a few years, not herky-jerky Elseworlds hopping or reboot yo-yo-ing.

I'm getting old and my patience isn't what it used to be...

My major quip is that "a bunch of colorful characters does not make the Legion" in my book. For me, the book was different because of its premises, who were all shattered by those reboots. For instance: there are no Subs, age means nothing anymore, characters maturity is non-existent, sci-fi tones were toned down to a minimum (except for Shooter now), death now is just like in every other book...

I really never asked for young Legion (that's, for me, the stuff for Elseworlds or Year One kind-of-books). I wanted the Legion who ran on its original premisses. The book had always been on the forefront (up to v4 #39, that is). When it became just another book, it had to be rebooted.

Each new rebooting or retconning or restart kills a little more of my interest. I find it harder and harder to get attached to characters that I know probably aren't going to be around for more than a few years.

I think, more than anything else, DC needs to take a new approach with the Legion.

I think the Legion should be set up in "seasons". Get a creative team that's interested in the book and say "Hey, you've got twelve issues. Gimme your best story. It can be a twelve issue story, it can be three four issue stories, it can be twelve single issue stories, just give me a beginning, a middle and an end. And when you're done someone else is going to do the book for a year. Feel free to pitch for future years."

The ground rules are simple:
- No rebooting.
- No retconning.
- No recreating past stories.
-The editor will provide you a bible with a summary of previous events and a snapshot of where the main characters are at the end of the preceeding season. Move forward.

It puts a lot of responsibility on the editor, but it would stave off the fatigue that seems to set in with Legion writers.