Legion World Forums LEGION COMPANION Dr. Gym'll's Cultural Rarities The Official Infinite Crisis Spoiler Thread

That is correct, the Freedom Fighters are from Earth-X alone. The JSA do not know them in their appearance in 1973. (Just pulled out my Crisis on Multiple Earths Trade vol 3.)

Looks like they are going to ignore the Roy Thomas ret-con from All Star Squadron which isn't a bad thing.

Well, if that's settled, I'm still not down with the whole Bette Kane/Earth 2 thang.

In her 1970s TEEN TITANS appearances, she is very much an Earth-1 resident, and her aunt (AKA Batwoman) appears in a 70s issue of FREEDOM FIGHTERS as an Earth 1 resident.

I guess we'll have to assume that DC is going with the original, earliest takes on the characters and ignoring all that came after.

Fits in with the whole Freedom Fighters/Earth X-not-Earth 2 thing, I guess.

The storyline behind the retcon is that Thomas originally introduced "Earth-2" versions of the Quality characters in order to account for their published post-World War II adventures. He later changed his mind and decided to make them the actual Earth-X heroes with the whole world-switch storyline.

I can understand the use of graphic violence this issue -- it helped to convey Superboy's horror at what he was doing. I think that to imply it or have it off-panel would hide that. From a characterisation standpoint I'm not sure I buy how far he went over the edge (I feel like we're missing something about his time in exile), but his horror and desperation at the end when facing the Flashes was well done.

I still think there is more we don't know about Alex Luthor (still think he's the Anti-Monitor) and that Superman of Earth-2 will have a shining moment, so I'll hold back on any speculation there.

Thought this issue was great, but I agree the violence was over the top (very realistic, true) and wish the deaths were a little more 'heroic'. Still, since in a way the Crisis is trying to critique the violence of the 90's/post-crisis, so maybe its that gory and violent on purpose as a culmination point.

Can't wait to see what's going to happen with the Flashes.

Batman has been great in this issue and the last. I really want him and Dick to make it through alright and smile more with each other.

Superboy of Earth-Prime definately has been duped/manipulated by Alexander Luthor, and I wonder if he'll be back in issue #7 (with Barry?) to finish off Alex (still think he's the AM ).

I really wonder if Superman of Earth-1/post-Crisis Superman (if we now accept they are one in the same) will have the same pre-crisis power-levels he once had?

Love the Spectre stuff. I actually didn't see it coming and think its a great move.
<span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">Crispus Allen is a great character and it's great to see his story hasn't ended. Plus, its a twist with the Spectre that its not 'Jim Corrigan' (the bad cop from GC) that is the new host. Crisp has some interesting views on vigilantism too. *And* great to see an African American super-hero thats a big gun with some very potential staying power.</span></span>

Now I need to check out the death thread and see if anyone died that I missed.

Eryk, given the cover of the next issue, I think that they will address this. I'm hoping at least for a couple of pages devoted to the true return of the real Superman of Earth-1.

I see Byrne's retconned Doom Patrol is there too. Maybe they'll deal with this once and for all?

BTW, I keep thinking about it. No matter how people feel about what they've done with Superboy of Earth-Prime or the violence, I still can't shake the feeling that he's by far the most menacing villain I've seen in any comics story since...well, since the Anti-Monitor 20 years ago.

Also--what does this mean for Hawkman? I know he's in space so may not be effected, but I wonder what Earth he'd go to? He's essentially Katar too, both factually (sucked the essence in) and in the timeline (taking Katar's place in the JLA in the modern DCU).

INFINITE CRISIS #4

For the first time, IC *feels* like a crisis. Maybe because at least the several different crises are all linked, causing the series title to at last make sense. I haven't a clue where this is going and that's enjoyable. Crowds of heroes, some of whom are rarely seen, huge calamities and snippets of characterization are the order of the day for these 'events'. And, perhaps regrettably, wallops of death and dismemberment.

The visual of those characters inserted in the Anti-Monitor 'tower' is an effective one. Though having The Ray 'channel' (or whatever) the energy of Earth X is a bit far-fetched. And wouldn't J'onn represent Mars 1, rather than Earth?

Odd choices.

Don't get Flamebird disappearing and not Stargirl. But it genuinely surprised me. Like Cobie, I wonder what'll happen to Hawkman... not to mention Jade and Obsidian... Mr. Bones... etc.

I didn't think it was gonna happen, but I'm beginning to wonder if DC really is bringing back a mutiverse of linked earths.

I know I hope the wait for the next issue isn't as long as the wait for this one was.

I see Flamebird as a definate Earth-2 character, given that DC, by doing this, is acknowledging that all these inconsistencies actually exist. I like the idea that the early Silver Age Batwoman and Batgirl actually existed on Earth-2. By including Batwoman as an actual character, it might make it harder to figure out Flamebird's later Teen Titan appearances, but there was so much crossing over from Earth to Earth in the late 60's (for example, Brave and Bold with Batman) that it could be possible.

Not sure if you guys saw that Dan Didio addressed this specifically (or maybe it was just Newsarama? so many articles...). Not sure if a lot of you would agree with the way of thinking, but it was addressed somewhere in an interview.

As I recall, WWitDCU maintained that there were versions of Batwoman and Batgirl on both Earth-1 and Earth-2, to deal with the inconsistencies about where their stories were placed. Maybe it was the Earth-2 versions that survived the Crisis, with Earth-2 Bette somehow being shoehorned into the Teen Titans as Flamebird? I don't know.

That's possible. Bette (it was Betty before) is one of those "orphans" of COIE, not unlike Power Girl, Fury and Wonder Girl. Their connection to the Big Three was retconned away, but they somehow survived. When the dust settles, it will be interesting to see how (and if) they fit.

Even though I don't like everything that's going on in IC, I'll admit, I'm very curious about what's going to happen next and where all the chips will fall.

It would be great if, for once, this latest Crisis would effectively undo all those needless deaths (like Batwoman's, for example) or correct the events which led to Barbara Gordon/Batgirl becoming Oracle, and so forth...

I use an iMac OS 9.1. I'm probably ancient to you technical wizards out there.
Finding anyone who can service Macs is anything short of miraculous.

I love Cobie's point about E' Superboy. I always thought "Superman goes bad" stories were awesome and chilling. First, the thought of a bad guy THAT powerful is terrifying. Second, we are so used to someone wearing the "S" as being a paragon of virtue that a bad "Super" feels delightfully evil.

I don't really know why E' Superboy has gone nuts. It could be as simple as not having grown up with the Kents. Or, it could be Alex Luthor's doing. It does suggest that a Superman is a product of his environment, not just his genetics. Maggin did a great riff on these ideas, I think in "Miracle Monday," where Jonathan Kent has a nightmare of a Superboy gone bad.

I was horrified reading the SBoy-P/Titans brouhaha.

Most of the casualties I had spoiled for me, but that did little to dull my reactions. If anything, this proves Superman should have slaughtered Batman during the Sacrifice storyline.

He stays on E-2... that's why the E-1 Hawkman book is changing to HawkGIRL... ?

Just guessing, but maybe?

Or it just proves how much control Supes has over his power, even when he's being mind controlled. It is so instinctual to not kill that it couldn't be over-ridden. Superboy P on the other hand has had no such conditioning and really, how much has he gotten to use his powers all these years until Luthor started enacting his plan.

I bet it's not even Superboy-Prime. I bet it's another of those rotten Superman Robots.

Run, Donna Troy... Run!!!

I kind of feel sorry for the poor kid. He's just trying to have a conversation with Kon-El, and his powers get a little out of control, and suddenly there's all these Titans attacking him and of course he accidentally kills a few. And none of them will stop to listen to him! Sheesh!

Kids can be so cruel

It's nothing to take anybody's head (or arm) off about, though...

It was an accident. And besides, it's not like he killed any important Titans.

Ouch.

Cold, but true.

Wow.
That would be a prefectly delightful plot twist. That sort of revelation could drive the Earth-2 Superman over that "fine line between genius and insanity".

I could be wrong but doesn't 'ol Clark look a little mesmerized in that last panel? I'm beginning to really wonder about the mental health of our "Strange visitor from another planet". If Superboy could be encouraged to go berserk then perhaps the older Kal-el could go just as mad under carefully arranged circumstances (the trademark of a Luthor btw).

Yeah, I'm actually looking forward to each issue..of a crossover..whodathunkit?

Well, I finally picked up the latest issue, and once again I am appalled at the graffic nature of this series. The images of the Titan deaths were a bit excessive, I think. Kill them if need be, but those characters have their fan base too, I'm sure, and I would bet that those fans would have preferred that the characters "die heroically" rather than be mutilated.

Risk isn't dead. He's just called "Lefty" now.