Legion World Forums LEGION COMPANION Dr. Gym'll's Cultural Rarities The Ultimates Ultimate Thread - SPOILERS

For those who haven't read "The Ultimates" #12, it has the funnniest line I've read in months!

Cap is in the middle of a really bloody, knock-down, drag-out fight with the Nazi alien bad guy and the bad guy has Cap on the ropes, beating him to within an inch of his life. Cap keeps trying to fight though and the alien tells Cap to just surrender, to which Cap responds:
"Surrender? Surrender??!!" As he takes his shield and rams it through the alien's mid-section, bisecting him (this ain't your dad's Captain America (though maybe your grand dad's...)), he then says (in a big full page splash of his bloody face):
"You think this letter on my head stands for France?"

Yeah, it's jingoistic and un p.c. (sorry to any French people in this board)- but that really made me laugh out loud

Classic! When did the issue finally hit the stands, yesterday? It would figure to be since I didn't think there was much worth picking up this week that couldn't wait for next.

I found that scene to be of very bad taste, and I'm not even French. It's these sort of things that help pepetuate stereotypes that are then very difficult to get rid of.
I wasn't amused.
Juan

Agreed

I'm curious -- which stereotypes are you referring to?

For me, part of the humor comes from the fact that the "Ultimate" Captain America is in no way the hero that the Marvel Cap is. Millar's already shown that this guy is a prick -- more Guy Gardner than Hal Jordan in terms of heroic molds. He's been shown as representative of a particular kind of "ugly american" and as a satirical figure -- especially one who looks almost exactly like one who's promoted as the ideal hero -- his comment comes off as fitting perfectly with the kind of man this Captain is and at the same time so unlike what we expect from the good old Cap we know.

That the French are wimps. This particular stereotype (if it's already one) is new as far as I know, I've only seen it after the French/American disagreement on Iraq. But it's scenes like this one that will help perpetuate it.

And regarding this new, uglier Ultimate Captain America, I don't see the satire because I've never been a fan of the character, I don't know the "old" Cap so I can't tell the difference. All I see is Captain America making an ugly remark in a prominent place of a popular comic book.

Yuck.

Juan

I don't particularly find it funny either. Why would an "A" represent France? That's just stupid Cap, get a better gag writer.

But even beyond the joke not making much sense, it does perpetuate the anti-France stereotype - which I'm pretty sure does date back much farther than its recent flair-ups. I believe I've heard jokes about France's surrender to Germany in movies decades ago, but atm I can't think of a specific example.

[But to be fair I've never liked Millar's writing anyhow, so me not finding a joke he writes in a comic isn't particularly a shocking revelation].

Cap's comment is all the more ridiculous considering he comes from a country that wouldn't even exist if not for French intervention. Hmmmmmm.

I wasn't thrilled with that comment either.

The comment that I did find amusing was Thor's comment on having a big, scary hammer. That made me laugh out loud.

Cap is obviously the most nationalistic character (at least American) in comics, possibly ever.

I saw the page and laughed out loud because it was so goofy and pretentious. I mean, doesn't he say to an extraterrestrial, a Skrull?

I think it was intentionally satirical of jingoistic bluster. I mean c'mon, guys.

It's what a flight-jacket fraud like Dubya would say. Course, Dubya would say it stands for "Alamo!"

Others might suggest "Asshole."

Just posted at The Pulse by my friend Jen:

Well....

I got into ULTIMATES slightly late, buying issues 5-6 together to see what the hubub was about and then 1-4 together shortly after that. I ***LOVED*** them! Made me understand what "widescreen comics" were.

And I've enjoyed each subsequent issue.

But I must admit my enjoyment was somewhat dried up by the ridiculous wait between issues.

ULTIMATES was coming out, what, 3 times a year?

If they can keep a monthly schedule and even 75% of the current quality, I'd be surprised!

I was into this title for a bit, until they had Hank and Jan have that fight.

Then I was getting back into it until Cap yelled "You think this is France?!". T

hen, I kept saying that it was only Ultimates and not the real Avengers, and not to let it bother me...and then it stopped coming out so I eventually stopped caring.

I thought it was announced a while ago that 13 was to be the last issue and it would come back later as a Vol 2??? Maybe I was dreaming again...

Yeah, this is a postponement, not a cancellation.

It never made any sense, given their record, to solicit v2 #1 already.

Honestly, I haven't cared for the Ultimates. It basically took the Avengers I love and made them into real people.

I don't want to read about real people...

I certainly don't want to see Jan and Hank go at it ever again.

Ditto for me, verbattum

I really enjoyed the Ultimates. The last few issues of the Avengers left me wondering why I even bother with it anymore. Seems like whatever progress gets made with characters, we end up back with Cap, Wanda in the swimsuit, Hawkeye coming or going... whatever. They travelled this road in 1979, time to move on.

And besides, what was scarier than the idea of a horny Hulk? I laughed my ass off for days over that!

What's the problem with the Ultimates Hank and Jan?

Wasn't it hinted at in the Avengers that Hank beat Jan up anyway? Wasn't he some crazy drunk or something? Isn't that why they got divorced?

And yup Mr Londo - the Avengers seem at their worst when Cap's around. I do love Wanda though...

Actually I love Wanda too. It's just that we see a little bit of growth in her, a new outfit, control of her powers, maybe even a storyline that doesn't revolve around one of those two things....then that writer leaves and we're back to "default Wanda" with the swimsuit and vague hexes. Even icons like Superman and Wonder Woman have been developed more, and are much less "open" as it were to long-term changes.
I realize Marvel is taking a lot fewer risks these days, but c'mon... Wanda, Vision, Hank, Jan... no solo series' among them, why isn't there a subplot with them ALL the time?
What I liked about Ultimates was that actions had major repercussions, and they seemed willing to stick with them. Like there would be no "default" mode.
Does this make sense? I'm not advocating for change for it's own sake, just growth over time.
Like with Wally West, from immature asshole to slightly less immature, to finally growing up and taking responsibility.

I really really like(d) the Ultimates... and reading the last issue last night really made me realise how much I'm going to miss it in it's hiatus.

At least there's still Ellis' Ultimate FF to look forward too...

what, no ULTIMATES 2 thread? now feat. vol 3! How'd you like that awesome cover?

Since the Marvel-universe proper AVENGERS have disassembled and been replaced by Wolverine and Spider-Man this is the ONLY Avengers book for me.

I'll need to reread U2 #1 to be 100% sure, but on the first reading I wasn't really super-wowed by it. Likely because nothing "WIDESCREEN" was happening, really. It was an establishing issue. I bet things perk up next issue.

So is this a monthly? Bi-monthly, quarterly? The incredible art is usually worth the wait but I would prefer at least a bi-monthly schedule.

Don't really like that Thor has quit the team. That boy really needs to make up his mind: IS he or ISN'T he? (a member of the team) One thing he most certainly is is super-FINE! Yumm. Also enjoyed the appearance of Volstagg.

All in all, a little light on the action, but a good estabishing issue that left me ready to read U2 # 2!

The story goes that U2 is monthly. Hitch had several issues done before the first one hit the shops.

The real question is: Is Thor a total nutjob or is something else going on? He seemed genuinely surprised that no one else could see Volstagg. But there was that one guy with dark hair who was smiling as he walked by. I've heard others suggest that he might be Ultimate Loki (who we know escaped - or we think we know). Could it be that he's behind invisible Volstagg?

I really like how Ultimate Thor is being written. I'm sure it's Loki and other Asgardian stuff happening and he isn't crazy, but I like the reactions of others. Thor is probably my big-time Marvel Super-Hero besides Spidey, and it's good knowing I can see him somewhere.

I'm glad Millar is showing Hank Pym and Bruce Banner too and them becoming friends. I hope he continues to show levels of Hank's personality and that he isn't a bad guy...'cuz even though he's ultimate Hank, Hank is still a favorite.

Like you said Lash, this is the only place I can find my Avengers.

Hitch was already supposed to be on issue #7 by the time #1 hit so hopefully we'll get the monthly title they've promised.

#1 was okay, not a home run but at least a good double. I don't mind a slow start. And the promise of maybe some Ultimate Asgardians as well as the Hank/Bruce friendship should keep this title near the top for me.