Legion World Forums LEGION COMPANION Dr. Gym'll's Cultural Rarities What's the Worst Comic Out There That You Made the Mistake of Buying

Its been some time, but rereading this thread reminded me how bad Graduation Day was. It was probably the worst thing thats happened this decade.

If you don't count Countdown of course!!! Countdown is probably the single worst fiasco in the history of literature. Not since Agmar the Witch King's "Why its alright to eat little babies alive" circa 1130 A.D. has there been such a brutally horrible piece of crap.

But back to Graduation Day--it was so bad I decided to read The Titans East special and Titans #1 in the store, knowing that it was probably crap. Well, I was sure right! It was awful! First Titans ongoing comic in my lifetime I'm not picking up regularly!

Hm. Other really horrible series I bought...Supergirl is up there. Probably Supergirl is the biggest "how can this still be published?" comic of this era.

Yeah- what a waste of Atom, Donna Troy, Trickster, Piper, Mary Marvel, Duela, Kamandi and even the New Gods COUNTDOWN was... it really should've been special and ended up anything but.

If it'd had a whiz-bang ending, the muddled middle would've been salvaged.

The glimmers of entertainment here and there sure don't make up for the tarnish now sticking to characters that I still really like, if a tad bit less.

Well, I'm *really* glad I dropped it at # 26 now... I had high hopes because 52 was so good (I *still* miss Isis and Osiris).

Yeah, and I finally dropped Supergirl a few months back and haven't regretted it at all.

The creators of Countdown are a bunch of necrophiliacs when you consider what they did to the nostalgia for crossovers, which in truth was already pretty much dead.

I had a similar experience with another Vertigo series. Back in the 90s, I was in my late teens/early 20s and, as people in that age range often do, was trying desperately to be hip, so I bought a bunch of Sandman trades. I hated it. Hated, hated, hated it. I found it so pretentious and so impressed with itself and with so many moments of ugliness for the sake of ugliness and, most of all, so BORING! Ever since then, I've been suspicious of any comic that's labelled "hip," "edgy," or "ground-breaking."

Thank GAWD somebody said it. I'm one of those comic geeks that aren't "hip" enough for Vertigo either, I guess... I tried to get into Sandman and The Invisibles but it didn't take.

To me, Major Bummer or Ambush Bug or Young heroes in Love is hip and edgy, not that incomprehensible gibberish that Vertigo was publishing.

I totally diagree, but I find it hilarious anyway that some people hated, or didn't get Gaiman's Sandman!

In fact I've been tempted lately to start a thread about the creators and stories that Stealth loathes because they're often so unexpected! Sandman? Kurt Busiek? Frank Miller's seminal works?

I'm not making fun of her at all, actually. Though I disagree with nearly every one, I find it refreshing that Stealth is unimpressed by people everyone else seems impressed by. I'm waiting for an Alan Moore or Alex Ross rant, Stealth!

Now Alan Moore-- HE was hip and edgy.

Heh.

I actually like Alan Moore, especially Swamp Thing.

Although I think Watchmen is wildly overrated and The Killing Joke is sick.

On the other hand, he's been deliberately going in the opposite direction since then, which is commendable.

And I love the first League of Extraordinary Gentlemen.

But I think the second one, and the recent LOEG Dossier, are both, to borrow a phrase from that side of the pond, "wank."

Overall, though, my likes outweigh my dislikes as far as Alan Moore is concerned.

I'll get to Alex Ross another time, but I can say, off the top of my head, that he's absolutely ruined JSA.

Lardy, your idea for that thread sounds like fun. We could call it "Judge Stealth's Comic Book Court," or something like that.

Only if you allow the Death Penalty for the trials of Liefeld and MacFarlane...

And Jim Lee.

Do it, Stealth...but promise to focus on creators and stories that aren't normally criticized!!! I LOVE it when you do that!



(the Image guys are too easy!)

I promise.

I guess I should also avoid polarizers like Giffen and Millar. God knows I've already posted plenty against them at Legion World alone.

So...who shall the first to go on trial be?

Stay tuned.

Polarizers are okay if they're like those guys and getting name-dropped constantly and selling titles like crazy!

Looking forward to it...

Oh, goody. That's gonna make it so much more fun.

"I guess I should also avoid polarizers"

Is that like when The Yellow Claw used a freeze-ray machine to kill someone and said they'd be "polarized" to death?


I know what you mean about Keith Giffen. I've taken to saying he may be the only artist I know who is on some fans' "most loved" AND "most hated" lists-- AT THE SAME TIME! (He's on mine...)

Well, I loved Sandman.

Lash, I think you'd really enjoy Preacher if you ever get the chance to read it. Its definately more along the lines of Ambush Bug and the Heckler more than Sandman or anything else Vertigo.

I like Alan Moore too, a real lot. I pretty much enjoy 90% of what he's done, and I firmly stand behind Watchman. Its a crowning achievement. Its just so imitated thereafter that its hard not to look at it in that broader sense.

I generally like Busiek's work but there are times it falls short for me. Like Stealth, I agree to an extent about his Avengers run, and I was totally not enjoying his recent Superman run. Still, I loved Marvels, his brief run on Iron Man and I think Astro City is magnificent.

Miller is usually great IMO. I'll defend both Daredevil runs to my death, even though I'm aware several other Legion Worlders whose opinions I respect don't like them. Dark Knight Returns is a masterpiece, but suffers from the same problem as Watchman in its often imitated grim and gritty aftershocks. Ronin is amazing. His Daredevil mini-series with JR Jr. is superb. Robocop vs. Terminator? A masterpiece--best Robocop and best Terminator story I ever read. Sin City is ground-breaking and amazing and introduced me to crime comics for the first time when I was a teenager. Sure, his ASBaRtbw is absolutely a farce (and lets be honest, it must be deliberately so) and his DR2 was drivel, but the man has reached a point in his career where he's obviously writing for himself.

Giffen just rocks. People who don't like him should be taken behind the sheds and shot

Hm. Maybe we (or me ) could start a thread defending writers. First is Gerry Conway, then maybe Denny O'Neil. Those guys did put out some good stuff sometimes you know.

There's nothing wrong with a veteran creator writing for himself, as long as he remembers that it's supposed to entertain people. And I'm not so sure that ASBaRtbw is a deliberate farce. I've already said this in another thread, but I think Miller has gone just as loony as Dave Sim.

This is so incredible. Earlier today, I had been thinking about doing something very similar. Conway and O'Neil are good choices. I would add Bob Harras and Alan Grant to the list.

I think it would be fun and I'd help you! I think all four are definitely good choices. Funny we've both been thinking of this...for about the longest while I've been thinking about how Gerry Conway gets a bad rap and yet I think he's actually done some pretty great stuff sometimes.

As for Miller, I think he's always somewhat been loony and that's been part of his genius. Its just be 'writing for himself' he no longer as any restraint when indulging in whatever craziness he feels like. And no one in the industry will tell him. So I can totally see him handing in his latest Batman script and enjoying the fact that editor is cringing and uncomfortable with it. Meanwhile, his movies and screen plays are heaviliy scrutinized and come out brillant. Part of me really enjoys the fact that All-Star Batman is so bad. Its like he's telling DC to 'fuck off' by giving them pretty much the opposite thing they intended the All-Star line for. Its so amusing! I've bought every issue just to laugh and complain and comment on it!

PS - you know I love me some Alan Grant and Bob Harris too! Add Louise Simonsin to that list, whose Superman: Man of Steel stories in the 90's with the Bog were some of my favorites.

Countdown didn't do anything for me.

The new Infinity Inc...its just bad.

Watchmen and Killing Joke are both great books and still relevant today. Sandman is awesome!

Alan Grant gets a bad rap? Seriously? Honestly, I've never heard any of that. I'd say his work on Batman is some of my favorite work by any writer on that character, and the magic he and Norm Breyfogle made together specifically is one of the most underrated collaborations in all of comics. In fact neither seems quite as strong alone as they are together! Maybe that's part of it?

In any case I've never felt anything I've read by Alan was anything approaching cringeworthy. I'd say Alan is a similar writer to Roger Stern stylistically and talentwise. I'd say that's high praise!

Care to elaborate?

I read Watchmen for the first time just a few years ago. I picked up the trade at the library, and I thought it would be great. I was very, very disappointed. I didn't think much of it at all, and I still don't get why it was held in such high regard.

I was thoroughly blahed by Sinestro's War. Anyone care to defend? I still have the issues. Can anyone give me a reason to re-read?

Not being a great comics historian my opinion is probably bunk but for what it's worth, I think Watchman both filled a want and was and will be relevant.

It was I think the first Marvelisation of DC characters, with the names changed a bit and it was a return of JSA, with the names changed a bit and it was the "newcomers" with the names changed a bit. All these DC "elseworld" graphic novels of their characters in the real world that have been hits, were waiting for permission to be written, permission given by Watchmen.

Cold War and capitalists elements secretly running the real political show will probably always be relevant. Real life will never be about power in the hands of the little people, because "little people" rarely seem to know how to hold on to power for long. Elements of that era particularly were brought to readers that would have been babies during the slow death of the Cold War.

Making sure I hadn't posted in here yet...

Rise of Arsenal #1. Big surprise.