Legion World Forums LEGION COMPANION Dr. Gym'll's Cultural Rarities Aaaannd it's Gap time again at DC

My opinion is that the year jump is designed mainly to serve as a "starting point" so that all books are on the same page at the same time. Comics published within the same month are rarely occurring at the same moment across all books. This is just how DC will set the stage for the new status quo.

I just hope my beloved characters don't get killed or quit, like Wally West. I also hope that Hawkman, Green Arrow (Ollie Queen), BoP and others come out unscathed, or at least in the status quo that has been established in recent years. I mean, we know Hal Jordan is safe, but I hope things don't get screwed up too much.

I don't know what to think anymore. I guess I'll just hold onto the characters I love the most and cheer or scream at the top of my lungs when things happen to them.

I do trust Geoff Johns more than any other comics writer of the moment, and feel that this could be something amazing. Judd Winick, not so much, and Greg Rucka somewhere in between, although I admit to loving his writing style enough where I can go with it.

I just don't want Lady Blue Beetle and the all-new Captain Comet showing up.

As for buying a series of your most beloved characters even though you don't like the way it's currently going, I'm totally with Nightcrawler--what's wrong with that? I love Spider-Man, Thor, the Flash, etc., and I will gladly buy all their comics for a long time, no matter what happens, and I don't really think I have to put up any arguement for why I do it. These are characters I've invested a lot of time and love into. Hell, *not* buying new characters from Marvel and DC is my way of saying "hey, make your traditional characters good again". In fact, I feel that new characters better be 'holy moley, kick me in the head awesome' before I bother to spend money on them.

PS- I guess this makes this the most likely time ever since 1988 that Superboy (Superman when he was a boy) and Supergirl could end up with the Legion again.

I enjoyed that stuff...P

Gary, I'd be interested in seeing any sales figures you have on the TMK Legion. Seems kind of nuts of DC to give the okay for a spinoff series and twice-monthly issues for a comic with the sort of dismal sales you are implying the book had. Of course, nutty things happen daily.

As for this 1-Year Gap... I am somehwhat concerned. I'm enjoying so many DC titles these days... none of which are really Bat-Super-Wonder books.

Hawkman, Outsiders, JSA, Teen Titans, BoP, The Flash... I am worried for these books, all of which I am currently LOVING.

I don't have sales figures. I'm going by the numerous interviews that I've read by creators as to why books like LEGIONNAIRES was created and why the reboot had to happen.

I agree with all of this. All of those books that are going good now, may just have the life sucked out of them with this stunt.

And, don't get me wrong, there were a few gems in the TMK era (I actually liked it better after Giffen left). But, you can't tell me Giffen's let's destroy, maim, screw with attitude was a good thing?

I guess I'm more sensitive to that era right now as I'm going through those issues to make some smilies. Even knowing what I know now (i.e. looking back at it), I'm having a hard time trying to figure out what's what, who's who, and what is happening issue to issue. I realize this is my own personal opinion.

Own Personal Opinion: Jumping forward in time to make things new, different and exciting is a stupid idea.

I'd wager that what REALLY forced the wholesale reboot of Legion is # 1: Marv Wolfman's Crisis On Infinte Earths, # 2: Byrne's post-Crisis Superman and # 3: Mike Carlin's edict that completely eliminated Superboy & Supergirl (including the pocket-universe Superboy) from LSH continuity.

Keith Giffen and the Bierbaums tried to keep as much of LSH continuity intact as they could considering the shattered glass of continuity they were given to work with.

I think being forced to go back and work out the new continuity due to the editorial changes imposed by Carlin massively derailed the story Giffen and the Bierbaum's wanted to tell. Many of the bad aspects of the series can be traced to this.

The introduction of the SW6 Legion, however, is one huge mistake for which I think TMK are exclusively to blame.

I'm cautiously optimistic about the gap.

I am loving DC right now.

Cautious optimism sounds like the way to go for me, too, Danny.

Still a little worried about my favorite DC titles... and news concerning upcoming events in HAWKMAN (one of DC's top books right now, for me) is concerning also...

The interview mentions cancellations. What comics will get the axe? Low sellers like MANHUNTER, DOOM PATROL and FIRESTORM seem likely...

I think JLA will be cancelled as I have heard that the current team will break up.

That again was editorial meddling; TMK pitched LEGIONNAIRES as a series spotlighting classic untold stories... an updated "Tales of the Legion". After several permutations and much editorial heavy-handedness, it became the SW6 spin-off we got.

The earliest, pre-Diamond monthly sales chart I've found online (September 1993) corresponds with LSH v.4 #50 (the Bierbaum's last issue of LSH) and T&M's Legionnaires #6. Neither of these two issues appeared among the top 150 color comics listed for that month, nor did any subsequent Legion titles until the final 'End of an Era" issues, with one exception: T&M's Legionnaires #13 ranked 149 on the February 1994 list. Neither LSH or LGS appeared in Capital's list of the Top 200 comics for 1993.

The reason 'Legionnaires' was spun off had nothing to do with the popularity of the mother title, obviously. It was conceived, by most reports, to resurrect the franchise. In 'The Legion Companion' Tom Bierbaum said it was supposed to be an "entry level book" to attract new readers, but "it never really picked up". Mark Waid, in his 1994 Westfield interview, remarked that "Legionnaires ... was supposed to be a major launch" but "in terms of sales [it] just tanked."

Though the data are sparse, the conclusion is inescapable - in 1993, sales of LSH were as abysmal as KC Carlson, Waid and others contend, and LGS never got off the the ground.

Many people, writers, editors and DC executives alike, were at fault for this sad state of affairs - they were legion. We can only pray it never happens again.

Thanks for the data. The 90s were rough on The Legion and DC in general. Those figures are as bad as the pre-DnA figures!

"Catiously Optimistic" is where I stand too.

I am worried about the DC titles that I think are necessary to healthy DCU: Hawkman, Flash, BoP, Green Lantern, Green Arrow, JSA, etc.

IMO, the Superman and Batman titles have been crap for awhile anyway, so here's hoping they get good again. Rucka's Wonder Woman is pretty kick ass though (his AOSuperman is starting to pick up steam).

The first thing I told myself to keep from screeming when I heard the news was "Geoff Johns is writing this...he loves these characters too..." I'm hoping he can be the readers heroes from the evils of editors and marketing reps.

I don't think there's anything inherently bad about a "one year gap" - it's in the execution. I have to wonder if they're forcing writers to wrap up their storylines in time for "Crisis" and the gap.

And while I'm not really into the tone of the DCU that was set in "Identity Crisis", I do appreciate that they're making very long term plans for characters and the universe in general, making the DCU seem like a coherent, interlinked place.

(personally, I think we'll see the debut of Wildfire at the end of "IC" and the one year gap will be used to skip ahead to Drake as an already established big gun in the DCU ... but that's just my theory )

Can I just say that the One Year Gap (and all Gaps in general) = WORST IDEA EVER.

Seriously. Did we not see how shitty that went down for the X-Men?? The books have been teh suck ever since!

/vent off

I'm likewise cautiously optimistic...the current incarnation of LSH is set some time (a year?) after their inception and the technique hasn't destroyed my enjoyment of it.

I'm buying a lot of DC titles right now, and if push comes to shove, I'm prepared to just read LSH.

I agree about the Legion Gap, but it's not quite the same as the IC Gap. The Legion is newly introduced to us, just not from the moment of their conception. This is exactly like the original Legion - a team that had a history when they first appeared.

With IC, we're definitely missing a chunk of the story. It's like removing a chapter from a book and expecting the reader not to be lost. Of course, DC intends to put that chapter somewhere else, so the story will be told.

IMO the 'idea' of a Gap is a really good one. When you think about it there's a LOT of potential there that a good writer could mine to tell great stories. Unfortunately in practice this very rarely happens.

I am 100% positive that DC's Gap will be good for some or its comics, and we'll get a few great stories or plot ideas out of them, but a lot of them will suffer for a few months while the writers who either got over-ambitious or didn't think through their changes properly try to come up with ways to rectify the situations.

I'd be surprised if this decision didn't ultimately lead to a few more reboots.

I'm still looking forward to it though. You certainly couldn't accuse DC of not taking risks at the moment.

Well this one one year gap will really effect DC more then we really thought. Editorial Changes will happen too

So when Dido said that readers will see new status quos for all the characters, he really does mean it. I like this idea actually. I like this alot.

Well, I guess I'm down with that as long as they don't let Carlin ANYWHERE CLOSE to JSA or LSH.

Still worried about the books that (IMO of course) needed no changes or overhauls, as they were currently rocking-- chief among them HAWKMAN, BOP, TEEN TITANS, JSA and OUTSIDERS...

I *do* think the 1-Year Gap dealie will be a great "out" for dealing with weird little inconsistencies that always come from these major crossover/reboot/revamps. It's like the ultimate safety net.

Supposedly Carlin's contract hasn't been extended so hopefully he won't be assigned anywhere in the DCU. But, to me, what's worse is that Eddie Berganza has been, or will be, assigned the Bat books along with the JLA. He killed the Superman books for me and I was looking forward to the Kuberts working on one of the Bat books.

Agree re: Berganza. That guy should be getting less books - NOT more! Wasn't it him who forced Argent and those hideous DEO kids on us in the previous Titans series, not to mention the rip-roaring success that was Cir-El. I dread to think what he's going to do to the JLA.

P.S. Early prediction for Outsiders post-Infinite Crisis - it becomes 'Batman and the Outsiders'.

Yeah, there's potential hazard there but I think the combo of Grant Morrison and the Kuberts trumps that.

I've also wondering (no, make that "hoping against hope") if this could lead to positive changes for NIGHTWING.