Legion World Forums LEGION COMPANION Dr. Gym'll's Cultural Rarities The Multiverse

I did go to the DC boards and saw a thread discussing the return/revival of the multiverse.

(I couldn't remember my password even after seeing the clue I gave myself)

So. What do people think about going back to the Multiverse? Like it? dislike it?

Personally, I have always liked the multiverse. It wasn't difficult at all to know who was on which Earth. I liked it because it helped with continuity (i.e. How could Superman have fought in WWII?) I liked it because you could do things with characters that need to remain unchanged (Batman marries Catwoman and has a daughter. I miss Helena Wayne.) I liked it because it gave the heroes room. (this reason occurred to me after all the heroes were put on one Earth. Why shouldn't the JSA respond to a world-wide catastrophe that was happening in JLA?)

Anyhow, what do you think?

Well, it all depends on the execution, I suppose. I definitely like the principle of the multiverse, but I have doubts as to the ability to just take the current DCU and and turn it into a DCU with a multiverse.

I mean... Earth-2 should really be protected by the grandchildren or great-grandchildren of the JSA by now, but I don't see that happening.

Aging (or non-aging) is one of the suspensions of disbelief you need to have in comics. IMO

Has any word come out on how the new multiverse might be set up? Will we see a return of Earth Prime, 1, 2, 3, X, S and such? Could this new multiverse bring us the return of the Crime Syndicate or even Linda Danvers and Barry Allen?

Well, I wouldn't want to see a return of Barry Allen. Let the heroic death stand.

Ditto for Linda Danvers. Plus with Supergirl, there is already too much complication.

Now a Helena Wayne Huntress...

I don't think we're going to see a return of the pre-Crisis multiverse.

Some of the characters, yes, but we won't go back to how it used to be.

I'll chime in as a fan of the multiverse.

I mean, how hard could it have been for people to understand the existence of an infinite number of earths with similar-but-different history?

Good Lord, the whole premise has been used thousands of times by now in various media.

DC's excuse (which easily translates to "our readers are stupid") to eradicate the multiverse in the 80s never washed with me.

Truthfully I wouldn't want Barry or Linda back either. I LOVE the Helena idea though. From the incidents in JSA I have to guess that Kingdom IS a member of the multiverse. I'm also guessing there might be 52 universes to begin with.

I too feel that the multiverse idea was a simple one and DC made a series mistake with CoIE. Most of the 'issues' with the DCU come from that single story line.

I always saw Kingdom Come as an Elseworlds title and not part of DCU continuity, how many other Elseworlds settings might be brought into the DCU?

I only hope there is a compelling story-telling idea behind it. I imagine there is, if it is the fruit of the collective imaginations of Messrs. Morrison, Rucka, Johns and Waid. Recall that the original "multiverse" was created originally to bring back an entire generation of heroes negated by the DC Silver Age reinventions. Now that pretty much all the heroes live on one earth, what's the point of the multiverse?

One might speculate it is somehow an out for the generational squeeze DC finds itself in -- by allowing the first generation of sidekicks to grow up, backfilling them with a second group, who have also grown up a bit, while Superman somehow remains 29. This was a key reason DiDio wanted to do away with Dick Grayson and Wally West, after all.

I'm sure any return of a multiverse basically would be like this: there would be the current DC Universe, which is post-IC, post CoIE, post-EVERYTHING. Then any other Earths would be brand new ones we've never seen before. I'm not saying that's what I want or the best way, I just think that's the only way it'll be done by DC. So the current DCU, which is the combined Earth's 1, 2, S, X, 4, 6 and 8 would stand as it is. While it opens up many possibilities, it hardly would change anything in regards to giving the JSA/Infinitors their own Earth again, etc.

Personally, I wish there was a way to split them up a bit, since the DCU is way overcrowded anyway. But that's tough...I don't think the Charlton heroes warrant their own Earth, but how do you draw that line? Make them all E1?

Also, no matter what happens with the multiverse, a return to one could only mean great things for the Legion. It opens up the possibility for various Legions so we could have them all again. We don't even have to know what Earth is what...just the notion of the multiverse shows multiple Legions making sense.

Overall, I'm a fan of the multiverse, and a big fan for how it used to be. But having it eliminated didn't break my heart and I've enjoyed the combined Earth since Crisis--although certain things have never sat well with me (*cough* Superman *cough* Hawkman). Seeing it come back would be enjoyable, but I'm at a loss for how it could be done--it certainly can't go back to pre-crisis (which would be the absolute worst mistake of all IMO).

As far as I'm concerned, you can basically have Earths which are effectively (at least to the extent that they have the same history as) pre-Crisis Earth-1, pre-Crisis Earth-2, Earth-S, Earth-X, Earth-4, so on and so on, in addition to the current Earth. Even a planet that is effectively Earth-8 as it was supposed to be would actually be cool, imo.

I support the multiverse. I agree with EDE, also -the current earth is more its own creature than it is a combo of the earlier Earths as originally presented.

As far as I'm concerned, Earth-2 is still out there somewhere. The founding Infinity Inc. members are now 40-ish and likely have kids of their own.

Earth-one characters may likewise have aged into their 40s/60s/whatever by now. Thus you can have ageless, eternally young Black Canary, for example, in the regular DCU (whose late mother was that world's WWII-era BC), an Earth-1 baby-boomer Dinah who became active c. 1970 (the hard-travelling heroes era) and who is now kinda like Kingdon Come Dinah in age/attitude, an octigenarian Dinah who was a JSA member on Earth-2, etc.

That's totally the way I envision things, Kent! The one thing that makes me most think that DC would never do that is that I would love it so much if they did!

Okay, I'm going to voice the unpopular opinion-- I hate the multiverse. Not because of any one thing, mostly just because all that convoluted post-Crisis history? Yeah, that's what I grew up with. I'm used to it. I like Black Canary as a founding member of the JLA and the absence of the big three. I like the JSA being predecessors and not from another Earth. I like Wonder Woman leaving the island later and her mother being there in WWII. I like it all!

That said, I don't dislike the idea of alternate realities. Like, the "Just Imagine Stan Lee's..." characters that're showing up in Ion's series and Kingdom Come and all the Elseworlds. It's just changing the history of the main characters-- the ones that I already know and love-- bothers me. I don't want Earth-2 because I don't know it from Earth Prime or Earth-1 or Earth-247 or whatever.

I like my universe the way it is and, yeah, fixing some things (Jason Todd's death, Beast Boy and the Doom Patrol, etc.) are good... I just can't bring myself to care all that much. I'd rather things stayed they way I understand them or, at the very least, don't move backwards 20 years. Sure, I'd love to see more Elseworlds style stories on different 'earths' or whatever. Going to new places I can appreciate. Reliving the '80s, less so.

Well said Cali. Especially (apart from the Jason Todd thing... that was just stupid) the last paragraph. Multiverse-for-Elseworlds is one thing. Having Earth-JSA, Earth-Captain Marvel, etc just marginalises the characters.

I also agree.

I'm not opposed to a Multiverse with realities containing more 'classic versions' of the characters that people remember. Just as long as we don't have to spend every month with those version.


But using the Multiverse as a framework to tell a certain type of story that was harder to tell in the post crisis DCU is fine.

I think DC's whole Multiverse Model was flawed to the point of breaking to start with though. If you look, just about every fiction that invokes a Multiverse (including Marvel) goes with the "divergent model" - you start with one universe, then every time Something else else Happens the universe splits into two or more identical-but-for-that-Something else else universes.

DC's model was the "traintrack model" - all the universes were around from the very start, running parallel, and were Always Different, with Universe-1 the only one to have Guardians, etc. And that's restrictive in storytelling - you can tell all the stories from a "traintrack" multiverse in a "divergent" multiverse, with the added bonus of "What If" stories.

I think both companies have done it both ways, actually.

Several of the DC "imaginary" stories - which were later considered to have occured on other universes, proceeded from your "divergent" model.

Marvel now has the Ultimate and Supreme Power universes, both of which use the "traintrack" model, and it hasn't hurt them. I also believe that they've several non-continuity stories and series that don't fit anywhere else into their own universe as well.

The vast majority of Earths that we saw with DC's multiverse were slight variants of Earth-1, that differed primarily in that Chief Parker had a moustache or something.

It was only during the time around Crisis that they decided to make Earth-1 special or unique within the context of the multiverse, proclaiming things like that it was the only universe with Guardians (blatantly contradicting previously established continuity).

I don't care for the multiverse concept. Having more than one Batman makes him less special, keeping track of the differences in the multiple versions of the Huntress would be tough for me.

I wouldn't mind a different universe for different heroes. The JSA get an Earth, the Charlton Heroes get an Earth, etc. There's no reason time would have to be restricted then, nor would any heroes have to age.

I would disagree here. Having multiple Earths means that both Superman and Captain Marvel are the prime superhero of that Earth. Both the JLA & the JSA are The Superhero team of their Earth and are the ones who handle the global crises.

Except that usually you didn't see the Earth-2 Batman, Superman, or Wonder Woman in action.

I like the concept of a multiverse. Once you suspend your disbelief that it can exist and that people can, with great effort cross over, it helps solve some logic incosistencies like' what was the JLA doing when the JSA was saving the earth from evil force X?"

Well, as I see it, a multiverse would still leave your world intact. And those of us whose worlds were trashed get ours back ,too.

"Well, as I see it, a multiverse would still leave your world intact. And those of us whose worlds were trashed get ours back ,too."


AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA-MEN!


Put another way... it was completely UNCALLED for, for DC to wipe out the "reboot" LEGION in order to start "Waid's World" (been awhile since I've seen it referred to that way).

And the SAME THING goes for the "real" LEGION! 21 years M.I.A.