Legion World Forums LEGION COMPANION Dr. Gym'll's Cultural Rarities Justice Society of America (spoilers!)

The JSA Annual brought the team back together, sort of. We've got everyone fighting the good ol' fashion superhero fight to quell a prison break. This isn't Belle Reeve or Alcatraz, but Haven- a prison for the genius type criminals. Every JSAer gets a chance to shine, but not everyone one of them does. We get a re-hash of the disagreement that split the team in the first place, with Magog once again at the center of it all.

It's not a bad story and certainly ties more into the main books. And we get a bit of a development that I'm not sure I like yet. It concerns Magog and while I didn't like the guy, I liked not liking him.

JSA All-Stars #3: I like Williams' Power Girl quite a bit. The individual scenes here are varied, some more enjoyable than others- I imagine which ones any particular reader enjoys depends quite a bit upon which characters they like.

Which isn't bad, but not altogether the goal for which a team title should routinely aim.

Johnny Sorrow's mysterious and weird. Atom-Smasher's in trouble (his scene was the one for which I want to read follow-up) and Sandman's long night appears to be near an end. Or does it? (Quite interested in this thread, too).

Magog walks (oh, well). There's a team meeting, with that computer simulcrum girl whose name I can't recall, but who has a bubbly personality.

Hourman and Liberty Belle are fun to read-there's something old-fashioned about the way they relate to each other. Old-fashioned as in movie teams of the 1930's and 40's. At the same time, they don't seem out-dated.

I liked them in the main story, but enjoyed their 'back-up' even more. I'm digging this couple in juxtaposition with Icicle/Tigress.

I think the Hourman/Liberty Belle pairing is great. You're right ML, it has an old-fashion feel to it- more because neither is a jaded cynic. They are what the GA/BC book could have been.

Well, I walked into the comic shop today and walked out without a copy of the latest JSA. I already told my Comic Book Guy that I didn't want it pulled for me anymore, but I wasn't sure I'd immediately be able to not buy it off the shelf. But left I did with no JSA, the first issue I've not bought since the previous volume debuted.

JSA and All-Stars aren't horrible exactly; they're just not good enough. It goes back to before Geoff left, really, with that never-ending Gog storyline. It started off fairly strong--I remember I dug that JSA dogpile fight against the first Magog character that appeared. I also enjoyed the first annual and the earth-2 elements that popped up in it and the next couple of issues. But then the whole storyline fell into predictable areas and then ended with a thud. Geoff had left just too late, it seemed, as the last handful of issues with the Shazam story and the over-the-top cutesiness of his finale featuring Stargirl.

Then, Willingham and Stuges came aboard with a puzzler of a story with no real payoff other than to heavyhandedly find a way of splitting the JSA into two. If they didn't split this way during the Gog affair and its divisive circumstances, it made little-to-no since for it to happen her. And some of the choices for the teams? No WAY would Stargirl or PG break off from the old school JSAers! And Rick and Jesse on separate teams--NO WAY! The explanations are utterly ridiculous!

As I look at May solicitations and am tempted to add multiple titles to a pull bag that's already too heavy, the two JSA books were among those that stood out as being expendable as I looked to make room. The bottom line is that neither book is really strong enough for me to feel the need to continue. And practically forcing me to spend an extra $4 to get all the characters I was formerly getting in one book was just to much! If you really want my $7, make both titles unbelievably great, not just 'all right'! This kind of watering down is what killed the X-books for me years ago, and I won't be fooled twice nor take as long to come to my senses!

I mean, in the DCU how long have multiple simeultaneously published incarnations of the same team really worked out? JLA America/Europe/Task Force/Extreme Justice anyone? New/Team Titans anyone? Just look at the current blazing success that is/are Teen Titans and Titans! In the DCU (and creatively, if not saleswise, I'd argue in the Marvel U either) <all together now>, IT JUST DOESN'T WORK!!!!!

'Bye for now, JSA. When the book is (probably inevitably) relaunched as all this plays out and both titles tank creatively and saleswise, I'll most likely be there to give an old friend a second chance.

So...any dissenting opinions out there? Anyone think JSA's better than ever or at least getting a second wind? Anyone who pretty much agrees but is gonna stick it out anyway?

Well, like I mentioned, the Fourth Reich is back with new members.

I'm about two issues behind on both titles and plan to catch up within the next few days, so I'll give some added commentary. But from what I've felt over the last few months, I plan to stick it out a bit longer but certainly don't think I could muster any sort of arguement or encouragement for anyone else to do the same.

I think you have a great point Lardy about DC's (and Marvel's) continued major mistake of putting out two or more comic books of the same franchise where the quality actually seems to split in half. So now we have two mediocre titles instead of one good one. All of those examples you listed are good ones; it becomes a gradual watering down of the comics. Its also why DC should probably not bother ever doing another second Wonder Woman title when they can't even get the first one to reach "best of" status. I think you're dead on: eventually both comics will be cancelled and then relaunched as one title. If history has told us anything though, its usually that the relaunched single title will fail as the audience has grown jaded and gradually fallen away.

I don't really mind the split, but I think having it occur because of some acrimony between two faction within the JSA was completely the wrong way to go about it.

Creating a training squad, or a black(ish) ops squad (remember Alan and Mr. T are or were in Checkmate...) would've been much more acceptable.

Hourman and Liberty-Belle are the saving grace, for me.

So far, I like the offshoot title more-- if only for Sandman, Atom-Smasher and the Hourman/Liberty Belle/Icicle/Tigress back-up.

Anyway, #36-- didn't the last issue end with the blurb 'Whatever happened to Obsidian' or something similar? Or was that the spin-off?

No progress on that front-- however we do see an alternative (hopefully) future where Mister Terrific is talking about the death of Alan Scott, which we're led to belive might be happening at issue's end.

We also are treated to the return of the Nazi villains-- with no less than three Captains, a Baron and a Baroness in their ranks. The most striking of them is 'Shadow of War'- a character new to me, if not to everyone. I really liked her and hope she establishes herself as separate from these relics. She's a cut above this crew.

Which isn't to say I don't enjoy the Warriors of the New Reich. They are logical enemies for the JSA, and don't appear quite as dated as they would in almost in any other comic outside of Captain America. Individually, there's some interesting designs there-- but three Captains? Couldn't they vary the rank a bit?

Mr. Terrific has an interrogation/confrontation scene in which he uses his T-spheres in a new and somewhat disturbing way. I did like that he found new uses for what he regarded as a failure, though. Reminded me of Brainy and Invisible Kid and the invention of the reboot flight rings.

Wildcat's nine lives are discussed and reinterpreted once again. If the War and Remembrance future is avoided, Ted Grant should be guest-starring in LSH any time now. Maybe he'll still have Obsidian's egg-form on a shelf somewhere and Shadow Lass or Brainy or somebody will free him.

ALL-STARS #4: So Mr. Sanderson is back to just plain Sand now, is he? Oh, well- guess I'll never get the 'behind the scenes' story I wanted about when and why he made the switch to Sandman.

Looks like he's made a hair color switch to go with his name. Actually, it's probably just a coloring error. I hope so, since I prefer him as blonder.

I like how he's conversing with characters- which seems a strange thing to remark upon, but it's been a long time since he really has. I'm not crazy about his FUBAR powers, though I liked how he used that acronym as a hint towards his 'displaced in time' status.

The dialogue with Power Girl was interesting-- something about it seemed out of place. As Sand, maybe Sandy is more self-aware and emotionally direct. Maybe he learned something from that Hawkgirl mess. And, no, I'm not guessing about a similar theme with PG.

Johnny Sorrow's kind of fun- though the King of Tears is really not all that interesting. At least here. The battle scene was OK.

Courtney and Atom-Smasher in the Subtle Realms-- now *that's* intriguing.

Again, I enjoy "The Inheritance"- though it's time to make the plot a priority, rather than fun dialogue spread across lots of settings.

I read All-Stars #2, the latest JSA and the annual last night and I found that I could hardly get through any of them. It felt like the X-Men / X-Force meetings of the 90's but with a lack of characters acting really cool.

I've been back and forth since the split but these issues definitely felt like a continued decline in quality.

I think both titles should've taken a few issues to get/demonstrate their takes on the characters. JSA and ALL-STARS both suffer a bit from obligatory opening inflated storyline. I know it flies in the face of marketing 'wisdom' (choke and snicker), but taking a couple of issues to lay down some basics would've been a much better way to start.

If for no other reason that these characters have needed some breathing room for *years* now.

Lardi, the latest issue of JSA starts a new story line. It's sort of a progression of the book, and it leaps forward 20 years to have Mr T tell us about the fall of the JSA. It's actually a better story than Willingham's initial arc. I'd recommend giving that issue a try. IF you still don't like it, then you likely won't appreciate his run on the book.

There's some good stuff in each issue of All Stars. Sturgis just needs to tighten things a bit, really get a handle on his cast- heroes and villains. The recent Injustice Society, much like the All Stars, could use some polish.

Well, I could hardly get through All-Stars #4 and the latest JSA issue. I found both to be bordering on the terrible.

I'm thinking this has all been a major mistake. Even the return of Sand could barely keep me interested in All-Stars. Meanwhile in JSA, is just seems all rather boring and beside the point.

I really want to love both comics but they have to sell me on that. Mediocre team comic books is DC's specialty these days (JLA, JSA, All-Stars, Teen Titans and then the plain awful ones like Outsiders), so its too bad to see this great franchise get caught in taht trend.

What a huge dissapointment. I feel like the JSA franchise is in serious danger again--and after so much good work has been done these last 10-12 years!

I am actually really enjoying the 4th Reich/Elseworldsy current JSA arc.

All-Stars #6: Liked- Johnny Sorrow's masquerade as Atom-Smasher in order to woo Courtney for nefarious purposes. King Chimera's stunt to take Johnny Sorrow down. I was surprised. Anna Forture- I'm not smitten or anything, but I do like her much more than Judomaster.

Didn't Like- Sand's power problems. I know there's a contingent of fans who want this character to be depowered and therefore just like Wesley, but I *so* disagree. I like him as a geomorph and would be quite disappointed if what seems to be the direction this writer is taking him is actually followed. Courtney killing the King of Tears... does DC have to be kill, kill, kill all the time in every title? I'm so tired of it.

The back-up: I'm a big fan of old-time screwball comedies, the way the characters interact here reminds me of them, so I like it even though I acknowledge that the plot is going nowhere and wasn't much of a starting point in the first place. It's all style over substance here, so if you like the style, you might enjoy this despite it's lack of substance.

I really like The Icicle and the fact that, in some ways, he's just a corner-turn away from becoming a hero. And yet he never makes that turn... so that makes him interesting (though it's frustrating when other writers don't recognize or use this facet of the character).

ML, you and I might be the last of the JSA hold overs.

All Stars is good, the Damage funereal was a nice issue. Sturgis can bring in the character when he wants. I'll admit he needs to tighten up his plots, but no one can complain the book is decompressed.

JSA is wrapping up it's "Days of Future Past" story. Sure it's been a bit long in the tooth, but we're gettign soem good Terrific time. With the short shrift he got in Willingham's openign arc, this is a nice way to make up for it.

Sure, this isn't Geoff John's book anymore, but it's still a great read each month.

The back up story in All Stars- Hourman and Liberty Belle. It's a fun read, but too short each month, and running too long. Since Didio hates to finish stories these days, they should use the back ups to give us fans those big closuers we like so much.

I'm going to miss the Liberty Belle look when Jesse assumes JLA duties full time. I know she's suppose to be the generational speedster over there, but does she have to change her name- AGAIN!

When I quit the JSA, I've quit comics.

I think the Damage funeral was the best issue of All-Stars so far. Liked the insight into Judomaster. Like that Sand has replaced Magog on the team. Liked that someone remembered Jakeem and Amazing Man. That said, the Hourman/Belle backup has been weak. This sort of extended meander isn't what I wanted from a backup.

The focus on Terrific is the only real positive I can find in Willingham's story. Otherwise, I find it to be a run of the mill future dystopia story with some iffy commentary on the human condition. Art is decent.

I'm hoping the two months "off" for Robinson's JLA/JSA team-up helps him recharge.

I'm still lingering but both have fallen to the very bottom of my pull list. Your above reviews give me a little hope for All-Stars, which is probably the next comic I cancel unless the latest issue wows the hell out of me.

JSA's story hasn't been great but it hasn't been bad either. I'm hoping Willigham can turn it around like Miner says once this coming crossover wraps up (which I'm not too excited about).

HATE that Jesse is leaving to join the JLA as Jesse Quick and not Liberty Belle. HATE IT.

So I bumped All-Stars up in my pile based on the above, and actually, I did think it was a pretty solid issue. The best so far, definitely.

For the first time since she appeared, Judomaster finally feels like a real character. Her lack of any personality up until now has made her a bit unlikeable (see also, Wildcat's son). I thought it was a nice goodbye issue to Damage as well, a hero who has actually had a pretty solid history for the last 15 years. Kudos to whoever remembered that Iron Munroe, Argent and some others of his past should be there.

Glad to see Sand back.

Nice quick bits with Cyclone and King Chimera.

Funny how the lack of Magog makes things so much more enjoyable.

One question: why exactly isn't Amazing Man on any of the teams? That's a big goof on DC's part I think. Same for Jakeem.

A complaint I can't let go is the artwork though. Freddie Williams II's exaggerated anatomy is just too distracting. I think if All-Stars had a different artist I'd be more into it.

The latest gave the title a stay of execution for me. I want to like this title because I love the characters. A little consistency and better artwork and I'll be quite happy.

No kidding. Though I liked how he was at the funeral, but way, way back from the crowd.

Another thing I neglected to mention above was that I liked how King Chimera was portrayed this issue. A good sign that he won't turn out to be just another jerk character, though I think he'll continue to have issues.

Yeah, this issue went a long way in showing a deeper side to King Chimera. I don't mind if he's jerk-ish at times, but don't want him to be pigeonholed as the team asshole.

I quickly mentioned it above but I really don't like Wildcat's son. I find him redundant and annoying. When a writer realizes this and decides to do something, I hope he's simply not killed off though since that seems super-obvious; I'd rather he become a bit more complex and give the real Wildcat a good storyarc.

With Jesse leaving, does that make Lightning the only girl playing with the old guard in JSA?

Amazing Man, Judomaster, and Wildcat Jr have all been blank slates since Geoff introduced them. That's par for the course- since Terrific's introduction, Sand has fallen by the way side. Midnight hasn't gotten a real chance to shine since his subplot with Canary got dropped. Much as I love reading the JSA, there's going to be some characters lacking in developement. (Not unlike a certain book full of a legion of great characters.)

So Justice Society of America #40 is out, and it (finally) wraps up the current Nazi-ruled future Earth storyline. These stories by their nature have to end with the reset button well and truly hit, but Willingham throws a bit of a curveball by doing more than restoring the old status quo. That it seems a bit rushed is understandable, given the upcoming JLA-crossover, but it doesn't say good things about this storyline's pacing.

This is an Obsidian-centric issue, which will hopefully appeal to people annoyed that he's spent so much time in (literally) reduced circumstances. I particularly liked the scenes with his father.

Artist Jesus Merino turns in some solid work here, possibly his best on the series to date. Nothing exceptional but, with the exception of a few goofy faces, nothing jarring.