Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Long Live the Legion! So are they going to *DE*-Boot the Legion now?

I think the Legion has a much larger fanbase overall than properties like the Doom Patrol or the Metal Men, so much so that it would be difficult to sideline it for long. They may not agree on anything and may hate basically anything that gets done with the Legion, but they'll complain enough if there's no Legion that I can't imagine DC not having a Legion title for long. Plus the DC editorial seems to be becoming invested in the notion of the LSH as the "third great franchise super-hero team" or whatever, along with JSA/JLA.

I actually think it might be better for the overall health of the title to let it lay dormant for a couple of years, however.

I can't believe that DC would cancel or "sideline" the Legion with their 50th anniversary coming right up.


The tag line for the next issue reads: "The end of an era is a new beginning." I hope that doesn't mean another reboot, but nothing would surprise me from these clowns anymore.

The sad fact is DC is a business and sales are the bottom line at the end of the day. According to the last sales report I've seen (in CBG #1630) for Feb. '07, the current Legion title didn't make neither the Top 50 titles ordered by retailers nor the Top 50 titles sold by retailers.

I don't have any answers. All I know is this -- for the sake of the Legion, its fans better stop pitting one incarnation against the other, denouncing honest and well intentioned creators like Waid and Kiston, shutting the door in the faces of new fans with comments like "now you know how we felt in 1994", and holding out for the one and only "real" Legion. Because odds are it isn't coming soon to a theater near you. Meltzer has already mentioned a ""new explanation for the Legion" and is dancing around the word "retcon". His statement, "I'm someone who doesn't like writing about the old stories", was not for nothing, either.

The new Multiverse (assuming it actually survives Countdown) is a gift, and if we can't find it in our hearts to support all and sundry visions of the Legion that happen to live in it, we support none of them. They are all cut from the same cloth and if people start demanding that certain threads be removed because they don't like those particular colors, the whole fabric may unravel.

The campaign to restore the Legion to popularity has to begin here, on this very board, where there seems to be a concentration of people with living brain cells in their heads who understand the stakes. Yes, indeedie, the shepherds of the Legion have screwed things up over the past twenty years, but they didn't mean to. We in our divisiveness enabled them, but we didn't mean to. Starting today, let's just make sure they -- and we -- don't make the same mistakes all over again.

Hm. I'm surprisingly rallied Tromium. You might have just given me the first positive feeling about the Legion I've had in awhile. Well spoken!

But at the end of the day...the one I want to see in stories, no matter who is in continuity or not, is the original Legion.

Trom, that sounds ver inspiring but what if you don't like a certain Legion? Do I still buy it to support it? Um, no. I started buying the DNA Legion at a certain point cause I liked it. Same with Waid/Kitson. I bought the first few issues then stopped. But not because it's a new legion but because I didn't enjoy the book. I checked it out later and liked it so i started buying again.

Also what I think is best for the Legion is different than others. And the Meltzer quotes got me excited.

I have no problem with a multiple Legions. But a certain Legion is popular for more reasons than just "it was the Legion I grew up with".

I wouldn't go so far to say buy a book you dislike -- I have not supported every version of the Legion and there's one or two I've openly admitted I detest -- but I do ask people to stop and consider the consequences before joining the madding crowd demanding that one creation be dismantled and replaced by "the one real Legion", which even its promoters can't seem to precisely define, and probably won't be what DC has in mind anyway.

To tell you the truth, for all my support of the 3boot Legion, I'm not completely invested in it, either, but I will be sorely disappointed if DC sends yet another incarnation of the LSH on a mission to annihilate the previous one, even symbolically. Somewhere there's a Legion Life Equation that encompasses its entire its panoramic history, both ancient and modern, and we ought to be thinking of ways to encourage DC to find it instead of giving them an open invitation to perpetrate more carnage.

That is all for today's lecture, my dear.

I have already, many times, pointed out my particular proposal that goes along with Tromium's ideas, but since it's relevant to the conversation I'll do it again, just in case anyone hasn't seen it: The Legion Manifesto

Absolutely right. I think a very successful way this was done was over at Marvel with the Ultimate Universe - you keep the old continuity for us oldtimers, you have a parallel new continuity and everybody can choose which one he will buy, both or just one of them. That's a very decent solution. DCs Multiverse was fine as long as there was Earth 1-3 - but it got confusing and now, after Reboot, Threeboot and all, it will be very confusing again to bring back the old guys...

Oh well. There's a tendency in this board to feel attacked when people are just posting their honest opinion. Calm down.

I did not say anything about quality. I said that there is more to be lost in 30 years of Legion than in two years of Legion. Where is there a comment about quality in that?

The amount of Schadenfreude - an adopted German word, I like it - would have been there if this would be the board I posted at in 1995 where there were tons of new readers bashing on the 5YL run of Keith Giffen while their new Legionnaires were busy fighting "Tangleweb". But that was the Reboot. As I stated before: I have absolutely no bad feelings about the Threeboot and the people who are liking it are welcome to. What I am hoping to achieve is to help the new readers in understanding that it may be bad to loose (maybe, maybe not) a (however flawed) modern version of the Legion about two years old - but that you have to quadruple these feelings to understand how many of the oldtimers felt back in 1994 and that we did get over it (mostly). So they will get over it as well

IF the Threeboot is debooted again. IF.

So no hard feelings, no attacks and no megalomania, just honest feelings and memories. Okay?

Ah ok. I understand. thanks

My favorite Legion version is the Levitz one. That said, I will support any Legion version that provides good stories. IMO the Levitz version was generally successful because it built upon its predecessors, evolving rather than deconstructing and remaking (rebooting). TMK, Zero Hour and the latest Waid version all had to change things to the creator's own 'vision' rather than simply pick up the baton and go with it. The result is the convoluted history we now have. To me, it's a slap in the face to all the previous writers who contributed to developing the Legion mythos to basically have their stories undone or twisted in some way. DnA had it right when, as they had inherited a bad situation, went forward with good stories rather than trying to rewrite what had come before them (I'm thinking specifically of the Wildfire re-origin).

I've enjoyed some bits and pieces from all different versions, and from many Elseworlds tales. If each month was a different Elseworlds Legion, I'd probably buy it. BUT - to have consistent sales, DC needs to implement some kind of Legion continuity and stick with it. The version that's been around the longest with the most to draw upon seems to be to be the obvious way to go.

I would have to disagree. I think the best way to show support for the book is to buy it. Simple as that.

Awhile back, while re-thinking my pull list, I actually considered dropping W/K's Legion. But then I decided against it. Why? DC is publishing them on a monthly basis. They are invested in promoting this book and having it out for the fans. Waid has come up with some fresh innovative concepts for the title. Do I agree with all of them? No, I don't but I don't let that run me away from purchasing the book. These are the same characters and team that I have faithfully read whenever I have been able to all these years and if DC continues to publish them in their own title, I will buy it regardless.

The same with all the 'other' Legion eras. Levitz, Giffin, McGraw, Peyer, Waid, DnA, they all had their strengths and their weaknesses and I was willing to accept all of those because of my love for the characters and the team.

I don't want to see them relegated to guest appearances or what-not like they've done to one of my other fav characters, Captain Marvel. It's only recently that has changed about him. But we can show support for the team by buying the title but by also letting DC know that we think they can improve it, change it for the better. That we love these characters as much as they do and that can be reflected in their history and stories.

Now, apparently DC is on track to correct things about the Legion and their history which is a good thing. Because all I've ever heard from non-Legion comic fans is how they like the concept and the group but they don't want to get bogged down in all that contuinity mess. It's like X-Men syndrome on steroids. Mayhaps some house-cleaning is in vast order and if so, I'll be right there with them .

Fact is, if you buy the book, you are supporting THIS LoSH above any and all others. It's binary - support this, or support none. Sales don't tell DC "I'd like a different Legion please".

Now, if you like the pre-Crisis team, you have an alternative option of being sure to buy JoLA and JoSA right now. But, again, that only works if they see a noticable spike for those issues and a noticeable drop thereafter. And a corresponding drop for SLOSH.

And, if you like the 5YL team or post-ZH team, you're screwed and have no way to send a message DC will listen to. Again, buying the current book only supports the CURRENT team, and it's foolish to suggest otherwise.

No, there's something else you can do. You can write them letters. Not e-mails; snailmail letters. A while ago I boiled down the stuff I wrote in the Legion Manifesto posts from my blog and sent in three letters, one each to Paul Levitz, Dan DiDio and Mike Marts. I got a couple of nice but noncommittal letters back.

If we all do this, they'll listen. There's just something about getting letters in the mail that stands out.

Of course, it's important that we all ask for the same thing from them, or they'll just conclude that Legion fandom is hopelessly splintered and it'll go nowhere. So I recommend that people write DC and ask them to restore all versions of the Legion to active continuity. I think this is the best thing to ask for for several reasons:

1. it's my idea and I like it
2. it's what I already asked them and repetition helps strengthen the message
3. it's got something in it for everyone.

Just a suggestion; do what you think best. But DC's mailing address is:

DC Comics
1700 Broadway
New York, NY 10019
U.S.A.

Letter-writing tips: be polite, be brief (one page or less!), be legible and be clear.

double post

Thing is:

1) "Returning all versions to active continuity" is, in and of itself, meaningless. What matters is usage (and the reverse) - and, especially, which one has the ongoing comic (since I don't think anyone thinks or expects that they'd publish more than one version - NB: tie-ins to other media don't count for the purposes of the last sentence, since they're aimed at a completely different market). In the sense you mean, the Legion's MU counterpart, the Guardians of the Galaxy, are "in active continuity" - but they still haven't appeared in a comic in over ten years. And what even consititutes a "version" - aren't the 5YL Legionnaires essentially the same "version" as the Adventure team when you come down to it?

2) Frankly, I think Legion fandom **IS** "hopelessly splintered" at this point.

I agree with Matthew. Fans disenchantment with the way Nightwing was being written didn't help convey the message they wanted creative change, it was interpreted by TPTB that Nightwing was killable.

You want all versions of the the Legion killed? Then stop buying the current book and confine your opinions to grumbling on Internet boards. The only message they're likely to get is the Legion is disposable.

I repeat what I said earlier, pitting one incarnation against another is destructive, and Legion fandom has to rise above that limited mentality. It's one and all, or we may be left with nothing at all.

I think I've said something along the lines of "I'd rather sleep on a bed of rusty nails under a blanket composed of woven live poisonous snakes than buy a threeboot Legion book" (if not those exact words) before, and I stand by that.

I'm only interested in one version of the Legion, and have no desire or interest to waste time, money or brain cells on another version. Unless something which I expect will never happen happens, I'll keep my promise to never buy any new Legion stuff ever again. And if it kills the book - well, it's dead to me already, so no change there.

Oh, and if that unthinkable thing happens, I'll still only get it if it's good. "10th Anniversary AoA" looms large in my mind on that score, which served only to attempt to demolish everything that was good about the AoA.

I think the new Multiverse will have 52 legions. DC is saying they are all parallels. I am guessing most of the Legions we've seen will be around.

Below is a quote from the Newsarama interview with Geoff Johns about 52. They're discussing the new 52 multiverse:

Hard not interpret Geoff's comments in light of the "old" Legion's appearance in JLA/JSA.

You are perfectly entitled to that opinion and so are all others who believe the Legion is defeated, and that the rest of us can do nothing about it. I prefer not to go there.

What a timely quote, doublechinner!

Re: Geoff's comments.

Not putting rules on things. I like.

I'm struggling to think of an apt comparison here, since the number of properties which have been rebooted in situ, like Legion has, is miniscule. It's like closing Season 5 of a show, and open Season 6 with a complete different troupe of actors playing nominally the same characters, but in completely different ways and without any of the past events counting.

Really, here's how I see it - if Farscape is cancelled and Stargate goes in its' slot, does that mean you're obliged to follow Stargate since it'll convince Sci-Fi to bring Farscape back? That's the sort of bass-ackwards logic you're presenting me with here.

I tend to agree with Reboot but also agree the real decision maker is "good stories."

Problem is, until I hear the stories ARE good, I probably wouldn't be buying another "reboot." A "deboot," yes, because at least I'll know it is a team with which I have emotional connection and that is worth a half years give it a go money.

Face it, deboot, reboot, boot in the patootie, if Legion were made a major player instead of a remote fanbook and the characters given special status up there with the League, who of us wouldn't be tempted to pick up a few issues, risk emotional attachment to a Legion that is not "ours?"