Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Long Live the Legion! Legion December 2007 Solicitations and Images...SPOILERS!

I like CB's pads and I like them brown.

One of the major problem I had with the Threeboot that it looked way to L.E.G.I.O.N. 89 to me from the beginning. Kitsons style is great, but it was the L.E.G.I.O.N. style. Brainy looked like Vril Dox, Cosmic Boy a little like Bek, and many of the others just looked all alike. Currently rereading it, still not digging it...

So what's the purpose for the pads on the tall guy, protection from bumping into things as he grows?

Protection against all the giant beasts he'll be wrasslin', I hope!

well I was thinking they are more or less a bit of "protection"... kinda like how football players have pads. To the best of my knowledge he's a giant, but not invulnerable yeah? I was just thinking that if he were to ram something with his shoulders he's got some protection .... although that leaves a question to the rest of his body..but I digress

Speaking of Colossal Boy, Giganta's appearance in Blue Beetle #19 was accompanied by a discussion of 'giant people'. According to the Blue Beetle writers, the only way you get giant people is through magic. I guess that any other way of doing it brings in all kinds of difficulties with the square-cube law and stuff. Now, obviously you guys can't be held responsible for what the Blue Beetle guys come up with, but... well, maybe Bizarro-Brainiac would use magic to create a city of giants! Because he's the opposite of Brainiac, who uses science to shrink cities down.

Anything there that you and Mr. Shooter can use?

Since mass octuples as height doubles, a 200 lb six foot Gim would weigh 1600 lbs at 12 ft tall. The tissues that make up his bones and muscles would need to be eight times stronger, not merely two times stronger, which means that he couldn't just be 'getting bigger,' he'd have to be changing composition / structural configuration as well. (Which is a perfectly fine posit. Whatever mass he's summoning up, it could be stronger than mere human tissue, which is the case with the Marvel growing character Atlas, who summons up mass infused with 'ionic energy' that is bulletproof and stuff.)

But that's purely from a mundane physics standpoint. If some sort of quantum pseudo-science is involved, the size-changer's body wouldn't have to change size, so much as interact differently with static spacetime. Instead of changing physically, the 'size-changer' warps space around him (or simply his own interaction with that space) to become effectively larger (or smaller). It would be as if he had a personal 'event horizon,' like that of a black hole, seperating himself from the rest of the universe, and at the point of that barrier, the rules change. The size-changer becomes a universe of one.

Bringing science into it leads to lots of questionable stuff, and some powers are hand-wavable (like growth or shrinking, which can be technobabbled away fairly easily), while others, like Chameleon Boy's shapeshifting, or the insane amounts of power that a Kryptonian / Daxamite soaks up from 10 seconds of exposure to yellow sunlight, remain kinda 'out there'...

Shrinking, if anything, is even worse than growth, for this sort of thing. While growth could be explained either mechanically or with quantum technobabble, shrinking, particularly to the level of the Atom or Violet, is a 'technobabble only' situation. The human body simply could not function, no matter the material transmutation / reconfiguration, at spaces smaller than the thousands of biochemical process require to work. How does a person breath, when an oxygen atom is larger than her lungs? How does she see when individual photons are as big as her eyes? Where does the matter that makes up her brain go, when she's smaller than a cell, and how does it keep working as well as a full-size human brain? It's quantum interaction / 'shrinking field' or nothing, in that case, I suspect.

Chameleon Boy is just impossible. The Threeboot Chameleon, able to mimic a creature but not it's properties, is, if anything, even *worse.* Threeboot Cham seems to be some sort of illusionist or something, not an actual shapeshifter.

Same thing with Element Lad, really. If someone could alter something up or down the atomic scale, why the heck would it 'wear off?' Gold is a stable element. If I can fling enough electrons around to transform lead into gold, *it would take just as much power to change it back!* It wouldn't 'stop being gold' anymore than the gold ring I'm currently wearing is going to 'stop being gold' in the next few centuries. It makes no sense that his power would work that way, mechanically...

And Cosmic Boy suffers the same fate as Magneto, only more so. In the 20th century, a magnetic manipulating character would be a sad, sad panda at how *few* metals are actually ferrimagnetic, and how few of those are a part of the average persons wardrobe / carried equipment. By the 30th century, Cos would have to carry stuff around to use his powers on! (A nice tungsten-weave mesh suit that he can magnetically reinforce, and some sort of throwing discs or spheres or blades or whatever would be key. Otherwise, he's got the amazing power to point at the average 30th century person and cause a whole lot of 'not much' to happen. But, since Magneto has gotten away with using his 'magnetism' on trees, rocks and living people before, despite none of those things being magnetically responsive, I guess Cos gets the same pass. I get a chuckle when a magnetic character targets the 'iron in someone's blood' or something, since that's monoatomic and has no magnetic field to affect...)

Anyway, short, short version? Science + Comic Books = Unmixy Things.

How cool is it to have the Legion artists actually respond to us? I started following LSH when Forte was doing the visuals and I always wanted to ask him how the members fit inside that tiny clubhouse! Now we've evolved to giving costuming tips to TPTB! Maybe in another fifty years fans will be allowed to WRITE the next month's Legion tale! I'll have to stick around to unload my hundred or so unused scripts:D

So, Newsarama has a preview of Shooter's first issue.

It looks like the fine threeboot tradition of the legion being dealers in death will continue. Commence the rationalizations.

It's nice to see KK and Trip picking up on their association from "Countdown". A tad confusing in that they're not the same ones (at first I thought that was why KK had pronoun confusion, having gotten used to Una), but still an intentional nod?

Too bad to see Lightning Lad looking like he's not having the best time with team management - will Brainy step in to fill a void or try to challenge leadership again?

I'm encouraged by what I'm seeing so far (but no word on whether or not WILDFIRE joined! )

I liked the preview pages. and it seems like(so far) there will be a good amount of viewing sub groups in various locals.

the art looked good. I think Karate Kid is a tad bulkly, but all-in-in I like the look of things.

so, I will finally get to read some work by the fabled Shooter. you guys have set high expectations, I hope I not disappointed. I did find the bit with the delivery robot to be funny.

I think the only way to never show a hero kill is to never have the bad guys intend to kill. I don't like the fact that the Joker kills dozens in every story arc and is somehow played for laughs. oh look, it's that wacky Joker and he's killing again. it cheapens the character. having said that, I don't want this book to be the Punisher in the future. but that scene doesn't indicate that to me.
given the amount of metal and other artificial trappings on the creature, I got the impression it was akin to that trained creature from Return of the Jedi. more a deadly pet, than a fully sentient being. in addition, I highly doubt Shooter's first issue( I could be wrong) would have Phantom Girl so casually dismiss the death of an sentient being by calling it a thing.

This was a seriously cool and interesting post, Set. Kudos!

The Legion may still kill in the Shooter version (or maybe not, we'll see), but the preview pages show a MUCH lighter tone, it seems. Weighty issues and major conflicts will ensue, no doubt, but at least Shooter appears to want to give us heroes who have a bit of life to them.

Karate Kid quoting "The Little Engine That Could" was more than weird, though.

I don't know how creator interaction works on other boards but here at Legion World we do our very best to treat them like every other poster and simply discuss things. Rarely have I seen "fanboy gushing" here and I can only remember one poster that had to disrespect the author of a Legion story arc.

We love our Legion and as far as I can tell so do the creators, it's the coolest MB on the worldwide and the Legion artists and writers are the coolest guys in the wide world.

There are some preview pages at newsarama.

Yeah, KK's blow in the preview LOOKS pretty lethal. They seem to treat the adversaries as bugs or something, which would be OK I guess, if the bugs didn't appear to wear ornamental fabrics, a reasonable sign of sentience. I will withold judgement until I read the whole issue (which is this week!!!!!!).

I was surprised how much the irreverant, snarky tone of Waid's Legion carried over to this one. I guess maybe it was a little lighter, but still. It's clear that the Legionnaires in the preview have no respect for, or expectation of, Lightning Lad's leadership. Interesting. In a few key scenes Waid made it clear that Ayla didn't think too highly of either of her brothers. Shooter seems to continue that attitude.

There's so much I want to read into every panel of this preview, I surprise even myself. Starting off with Karate Kid. Val is arguably Shooter's greatest creation, and one of his first. It's perhaps simply a savvy Countdown tie-in (although tying to that train wreck may not be so savvy), but I saw it mainly as Shooter starting off with his favorite son. How nice to have PG show up too, echoing the earlier story of KK's unrequited affections for Tinya. Too bad Triplicate Girl is unconscious. I know she was one of Shooter's favorites, too, and he wrote some of his best early character moments with her.

The Triton page is textbook on how to write the Legion. First, you pick an exotic, scifi locale and you actually incorporate it's exoticism into the story. If you DON'T do this, why bother setting stories in a future era with space travel, aliens, etc? Second, you build expobites (my soon-to-be trademarked term for tiny servings of exposition) into the dialogue. In fact, all the preview pages bring a reader up to speed on 1) flight rings and what they do, 2) LL's the new leader, and what a leader does (talk on phone ALOT), 3) Garth and Ayla are brother and sister, 4) Triton is so cold it's snow is made of nitrogen, 5) Invisible Kid is studious, 6) Timber Wolf is NOT studious, 6) Star Boy is from Xanthu, 7) Saturn Girl is a telepath from Titan, 8) Saturn Girl's mom holds an important position of authority, 9) the Legion's position of authority is ambiguous, oh and 10) Karate's Kid's tough, but not invulnerable. That's alot to accomplish in 4 non-splash pages.

I was a bit surprised, actually, that a warning from the Legion didn't carry weight at the Triton ski resort. They are fully deputized by the UP now, after all. I think the resort manager was using this as an excuse not to commit a revenue-limiting move on his part. Timber Wolf is obviously looking for a reason to denigrate Lightning Lad's leadership.

A few things that delighted or surprised me:

1) Winch Boone: Y'Dolay and "Well aren't THEY something." Just awesome. I wonder who Shooter modeled old Winch on?

2) Saturn Girl: I'll call my mother. Have we seen this Imra do that before? It may be out of character, but I liked it. This Imra is just a little bit less of an iron butt.

3) The implied valor of Triplicate Girl in battle. This of course goes back at least as far as the original Computo, and I'm always delighted to see it. Legionnaires like Karate Kid and Triplicate Girl fight hard and fight smart and NEVER give up.

4) The art. Francis is very talented. I like that the Legionnaires are beginning to look like distinct individuals. I particularly like Star Boy's slightly bulked up look, even if his costume is really ideal for a skinny boy. I still think KK looks a little too bulked, though. I know he's supposed to be strong, and a bulkier frame would perhaps help protect him, but it doesn't fit my Bruce Lee stereotype. Phantom Girl looks gorgeous, though, as she always should. That raven hair flowing from her sleek white frame. Beautiful. Thank you, Francis, for putting an accurate looking Neptune in the sky of Triton. It should probably be a little bigger though. Oh, and Triton has a very odd angle of axial rotation, so depending on where you are on the surface, Neptune's great dark spot might be more vertical. Most of the snow's at the poles, though, so maybe that angle is OK. Thanks just the same. I ALWAYS appreciate it when an artist avails himself of actual science when illustrating science fiction. Finally, can I say I'm a little disappointed about the look of the Legion HQ? I certainly respect your effort at continuity with Barry's 31C Metropolis. But, it never made any sense to me that a flashy, anachronistic in-your-face Legion would have a drab, bland in Legion HQ. The drab appearance of future earth seems like the perfect opportunity for HQ to stand out. Talk to Jim about it, OK? It doesn't have to be bright yellow and red, but a little color, or windows, would be nice.

As you can tell, I am VERY excited to read this issue. I get to pick it up on my 41st birthday, too. How nice to see the new era for the Legion begin at the same time as the second half of my life.

Looks swell. Lots more cool monster scenes at FJM\'s blog .

Shooter's wasting no time revving up the action, assigning the Legionnaires unique, personality-enhancing roles and setting up the titular "Conflict". Not quite sure why they replaced 3boot KK with the guy from Countdown, though.

Phantom Girl's comment "Let the ring do the work" -- another nod to Countdown? The eco-protective glow around the Legionnaires is a nice artistic touch.

I like that the communications center is called "the bridge" -- as if HQ was really an upside-down rocket ship or something. ;}

"How's it going?" "I'm suicidal. How are you?" Hee. Good to see the Ranzzes behaving like brother and sister.

Is that 3boot Dr. Gym'll on skis?

Shut up, Wolf. Ho boy, these two are on a colllison course. Should be fun.

Till the 28th, a happy and blessed Christmas to everyone here who celebrates.

Wow, fjm's Legion stuff rocks! Reminds me a bit of Batista. His work is VERY dynamic. It has energy! Love it. Really excited about him and Shooter!

Wouldn't that be a case of self defense? Both Triplicate Girl & KK were already injured.

"wishes made real your soul may steal"

I googled and couldn't find it. It makes a lot of sense actually. Is this a "Shooterism?"

Love the pacing. Three or four panels per scene is keeping my attention and the only extended panels are either lanscape or the extremely detailed fight scene. I agree with "The Chin" and others about the violence of the blow by KK, it's just not "clever."

The sample pages are pretty wordy but only a couple nitpics where words are being thrown out on things that the art already depicts (Trip's condition) or could have depicted.

The art, technical aspects; nice critters, extremely detailed, and descriptive of the place and shown from several different POV's but it's not striking any good or bad emotional cords with me like Coipel, Batista or recently Colaros, it doesn't "move" for me, so I'm pretty neutral about it so far. Stylistically it looks a bit "speed racer" and a bit "Jim Lee," so again, kind of neutral about it.

Looking at it again, it might just be those white borders or the extensive balloons bothering me. Somehow the panels and the action are not jumping out at me, kind of blending in with the page. It all looks very 2-D and stagnant to me on the computer screen.

Francis's pencils on his art journal blog are amazing! Does he leave any work for the inker? Francis, dude, do NOT wear yourself out! Pace yourself, man. That wide exterior shot of Metropolis looks cooler in your pencils than the computer preview of the finished art. I look forward to seeing the real thing.

That is one beautiful Tinya!

I love Tinya's purse/first aid kit. She seems very serious at work too. Obviously the style of kit is something she chose, I don't see Brin or Brainy slinging a purse with bandages in it. It's all about the accessories with those career girls. Val was better off not to get stuck with her way back in year one. She seems like she might be a bit high maintenance.

On a more serious note, I'm digging the bulked up Starboy and Karate Kid designs. Val's fight scene was very cool. A bit like the Street Fighter comics in style.

That didn't work for Starboy. I can't see this version of B5 being any less aggressive a prosecutor than the Silver Age one. Let's hope he didn't notice, I'd hate to see KK put on trial and demoted to the subs.