0 members (),
24
Murran Spies, and
1
robot. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
Previous Thread |
|
Next Thread
|
|
Catalog of Shooter firsts
|
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,684
Deputy
|
OP
Deputy
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,684 |
Shooter firsts, to give younger readers and others who aren't yet familiar with his previous runs a true picture of his creative breadth and depth, and some idea how important so many his contributions were (and still are) to the Legion mythos. Plus, a reason to expect good things in the future.
The list is woefully incomplete, as I can't begin to catalog the numerous one-shot characters and worlds he invented.
LEGIONNAIRES Core Legion - Karate Kid - Princess Projectra - Ferro Lad (Notably, the first Legionnaire in history to die and remain dead--excluding Triplicate Girl's first body.) - Shadow Lass - Timber Wolf (Shooter did not create Brin Londo but made him a Legionnaire and gave him the codename Timber Wolf) - Chemical King Adult Legion - Reflecto (appeared as statue only) - Power Boy (appeared as statue only) - Quantum Queen (See also: The Wanderers) - Polar Man (Shooter did not create Polar Boy but first depicted Brek Bannin as a Legionnaire in the Adult Legion)
ALLIES/FRIENDS/RELATIONS - Rond Vidar - Marte Allon (someone else named her?) - President Kandru Boltax - King Vovx of Orando - Princess Elwinda of Nadir - The Wanderers (Celebrand, Orintho, Elvo, Dartlag, Immorto, Psyche and Quantum Queen) - The Tornado Twins (Dawn and Don Allen) - Eltro Gand - Sinde - Sensei - Questar - Laurel Kent
ADVERSARIES Villain Groups - The Fatal Five (Emerald Empress/Emerald Eye, Validus, Tharok, Persuader and Mano) - The Taurus Gang (Black Mace, Quanto, Mystelor, Rogarth and Shagrek) - The Dark Circle Individual adversaries - Nemesis Kid - The Sun-Eater - Echo (Adult LSV) - Beauty Blaze (Adult LSV) - Douglas Nolan - Universo - Mordru - Doctor Regulus (Shooter also wrote Sun Boy's origin story) - Thora of Taltar - Mantis Morlo and the Chemoids - Tarik the Mute and his android - Nam'Lor - Leland McCauley - Black Mace (See also: The Taurus Gang) - The Black Vassal - The Hunter (Otto Orion) - Soljer - Grimbor - Charma - Magno Lad - Micro Lad (of Imsk) - Esper Lass - Calorie Queen - Ben Pares - The Black Dragon (KK's dead father) and his disciple, Sadaharu - Pulsar Stargrave - Quicksand - Holdur
MONSTERS - Validus (See also: The Fatal Five) - The Galactosaur - Every Ten-Years Monster
ALIEN WORLDS/RACES (notable ones only) - Orando - Talok VIII - Nadir (medieval homeworld of Elwinda) - Simballi (jungle world of The Hunter) - Zentor (home of Questar and Glad Handler) - The Khunds - The Controllers - The Dominators
INSTITUTIONS - Takron-Galtos - The Legion Academy - Tarik's School for Super-Villains (cradle of the LSV)
OBJECTS/ELEMENTS/INVENTIONS - The Time Cube - Life-jewels - Lotus fruit - The Miracle Machine - First modern Legion HQ complex (replaced the original upside-down rocket ship HQ)
???? Please add or correct as neeeded so Shooter's most important influences on the Legion (the cartoon in addition to the comic book) are justly acknowledged.
|
|
|
Re: Catalog of Shooter firsts
|
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 34,634
Bold Flavors
|
Bold Flavors
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 34,634 |
I used to think RJ Brande was created by Shooter but I also recall a LWer correcting me that Shooter actually didn't write that story.
But wow, look at that list. I've always known them all, but to see them listed like that. Mordru! Universo! Fatal Five! Dominators! Khunds! That alone shows how derivative of Shooter all of Legion history truly is!
|
|
|
Re: Catalog of Shooter firsts
|
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 943
Active
|
Active
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 943 |
I know they don't equate flawlessly, but wasn't the death of one of the Triplicate Girls written before Ferro Lad's?
|
|
|
Re: Catalog of Shooter firsts
|
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,684
Deputy
|
OP
Deputy
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,684 |
APB, you are correct. Let's say Ferro Lad was the first whole Legionnaire to die and remain dead. Cobie, I believe the first cameo appearance of R.J. Brande was in E. Nelson Bridwell's Outcast Superheroes/Devil's Dozen story -- but someone else will have to verify that.
|
|
|
Re: Catalog of Shooter firsts
|
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 824
Active
|
Active
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 824 |
Originally posted by Tromium: APB, you are correct. Let's say Ferro Lad was the first whole Legionnaire to die and remain dead.
Cobie, I believe the first cameo appearance of R.J. Brande was in E. Nelson Bridwell's Outcast Superheroes/Devil's Dozen story -- but someone else will have to verify that. I'm not sure about the first appearance of Brande...but I do know Bridwell wrote the origin of the Legion which did feature Brande. In Superboy #147 IIRC.
|
|
|
Re: Catalog of Shooter firsts
|
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 33,081
Time Trapper
|
Time Trapper
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 33,081 |
Credit for Brande (and the White Witch, BTW) goes to Bridwell, but Shooter's not lacking for notches in his LSH-credit account.
Great thread, I had wanted to do something similar but doubted by ability to remember the veritable legion of stuff Shooter gets credit for!
I think we're going to see a very big hit once S&M start their run.
|
|
|
Re: Catalog of Shooter firsts
|
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 40,648
Trap Timer
|
Trap Timer
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 40,648 |
Unless I'm mistaken, inertron is first used (in the Legion) in the first Starfinger story (which makes it either Shooter or Hamilton). The fusion powersphere was shielded by inertron, as I recall.
Electro-Towers as a planetary defense system are a Shooter contribution, however.
|
|
|
Re: Catalog of Shooter firsts
|
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 6,078
Wanderer
|
Wanderer
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 6,078 |
Originally posted by Eryk Davis Ester:
Electro-Towers as a planetary defense system are a Shooter contribution, however. Shooter: Good at bad-guys. Not so good on planetary defense systems. Easy to knock out, must always have a fake one on reserve.
|
|
|
Re: Catalog of Shooter firsts
|
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,684
Deputy
|
OP
Deputy
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,684 |
Originally posted by Eryk Davis Ester: Unless I'm mistaken, inertron is first used (in the Legion) in the first Starfinger story (which makes it either Shooter or Hamilton). The fusion powersphere was shielded by inertron, as I recall. Thank you. I checked and Brainy does indeed mention inertron in the Starfinger story written by Edmond Hamilton. List edited.
|
|
|
Re: Catalog of Shooter firsts
|
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,684
Deputy
|
OP
Deputy
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,684 |
A few less consequential "firsts":
Shooter wasn't great guns in the romance department but he did create the Karate Kid/Projectra romance (iirc, he created the two characters to be a couple), and planted the seeds of Bouncing Boy/Duo Damsel and Mon-El/Shadow Lass. If memory serves me right, he also wrote the first clear indications of Duo Damsel's hopeless crush on Superboy and Colossal Boy's crush on Shrinking Violet.
He launched Matter-Eater Lad's political career (foreshadowed in the Adult Legion and realized in Superboy #212)
I have to check this one -- was he the writer who destroyed the first Legion HQ (the upside-down rocket ship) and headquartered the Legion in its first modern complex?
|
|
|
Re: Catalog of Shooter firsts
|
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 34,634
Bold Flavors
|
Bold Flavors
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 34,634 |
I actually think he was, but someone will know for sure.
|
|
|
Re: Catalog of Shooter firsts
|
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 11,656
Time Trapper
|
Time Trapper
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 11,656 |
Originally posted by Tromium:
I have to check this one -- was he the writer who destroyed the first Legion HQ (the upside-down rocket ship) and headquartered the Legion in its first modern complex? Yes. The rocketship clubhouse was destroyed by the Fatal Five in the two parter that introduced Shadow Lass. It was then replaced by the first modern complex, which was under construction when the Black Cirlce attacked. The semi-built complex was destroyed but "fixed" by the Miracle Machine at the end of the story.
"Hey Jim! Get Mon out of the Zone!! And...when do we get Condo back?"
|
|
|
Re: Catalog of Shooter firsts
|
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,684
Deputy
|
OP
Deputy
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,684 |
Thanks, Vee. Added to the list.
Here's a curious thing I found. Using the Legion Help File as a guide, I counted the number of issues containing stories written by Shooter (not necessarily individual stories, mind you) and the exact count came to 50.
The stars are aligned for the next great era of the Legion. May the Luck Lords stay far, far away.
|
|
|
Re: Catalog of Shooter firsts
|
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,523
Legionnaire!
|
Legionnaire!
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,523 |
hey Tromium !!
great post this is really useful, i'm not really up on the SHOOTER era !! [ although i DO own all of the ARCHIVES, i haven't even got past the 2nd one !!! ]
it would be interesting to see who else has created as many LEGION characters/events etc ..... i suppose LEVITZ must be near this mark, although i seem to recall someone saying that LEVITZ didn't really creat alot of new characters ??
Matthew.
|
|
|
Re: Catalog of Shooter firsts
|
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,272
Deputy
|
Deputy
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,272 |
I actually think inertron dates back to the original, original Buck Rogers stories by Philip Nowlan. I think it was a shared motif of early S.F. writers, Hamilton among them.
...but you don't have a moment where you're sitting there staring at a table full of twenty-five characters with little name signs that say, "Hi, my superpower is confusing you!"
|
|
|
Re: Catalog of Shooter firsts
|
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 40,648
Trap Timer
|
Trap Timer
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 40,648 |
Yeah, it was a standard sci fi concept. That's why I put (in the Legion) in parentheses.
I'd guess Hamilton and Siegal would be the only ones to rival Shooter in raw numbers of enduring Legion characters/concepts. They created most of the enduring Legionnaires, while Shooter created most of the enduring villains.
Levitz probably created quite a few characters, but the most memorable aspects of his run were playing with the concepts created by his predecessors. His original villains were especially weak.
|
|
|
Re: Catalog of Shooter firsts
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 515
The Infinite Man--of Gripes! (and--of Space!)
|
The Infinite Man--of Gripes! (and--of Space!)
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 515 |
Originally posted by doublechinner: I actually think inertron dates back to the original, original Buck Rogers stories by Philip Nowlan. I think it was a shared motif of early S.F. writers, Hamilton among them. I was also going to add that I'm pretty sure that inerton was referred to in at least one 1950's Superman story (the one I can recall for sure had him fly into the sun to grab some inerton from its core so that he could make super-effective and dense ear plugs out of them).
If the meek shall inherit inherit the Earth, then I at least want Baffin Island - and a property manager to work for me who is made of sterner stuff than I.
|
|
|
Re: Catalog of Shooter firsts
|
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 10,215
Time Trapper
|
Time Trapper
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 10,215 |
Who's gonna start the Levitz list? (Not me!) Don't forget his first run, after Shooter/Bates.
|
|
|
Re: Catalog of Shooter firsts
|
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,684
Deputy
|
OP
Deputy
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,684 |
Not me, either. But for all Levitz created, he removed or radically changed numerous things his predecessors had created, including quite a few of Shooter's inventions.
- Chemical King (killed, as foreshadowed in the Adult Legion) - Douglas Nolan (sent into another reality) - The Adult Legion (turned into an alternate future) - Mordru (depowered by Darkseid in the GDS) - Karate Kid (killed) - Projectra (retired and later turned into Sensor Girl when he couldn't use Kara) - Validus (transformed into a child) - Emerald Empress (killed) - Rond Vidar (killed and resurrected as a Green Lantern) - Takron-Galtos (destroyed) - The Time Cube (destroyed) - The Miracle Machine (destroyed, eaten by Matter-Eater Lad)
On the other side, Levitz rescued Shadow Lass from her intended fate on the science asteroid, made the long neglected Power Boy a member of the Academy, and finally brought Polar Boy into the Legion (though he seemd to regret it later). And his issue #31, "Knights in Shining Armor" is a lovely tribute to Shooter's first Legionnaires.
|
|
|
Re: Catalog of Shooter firsts
|
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 824
Active
|
Active
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 824 |
it would be interesting to see who else has created as many LEGION characters/events etc ..... i suppose LEVITZ must be near this mark, although i seem to recall someone saying that LEVITZ didn't really creat alot of new characters ??
Matthew. [/QB]
My guess is Siegel, then Hamilton. Levitz will be the first to admit he's not a particularly imaginative writer...however, if you have to stick characterization for 25 characters in a 32 page story, in the midst of a Universal Crisis...Levitz is your man....especially if he's got Giffen and his patented 9 panel layouts. I think he's(Levitz) unmatched at that sort of thing actually. Levitz was pretty inventive with tweaks to previously established characters and the mythology of the Legion...but as for just creating stuff from the ground up... Not that good at it, and that's probably why he's never had much success as a writer outside of his Legion stint. Probably the most memorable thing he's done aside from his Legion work was his Secret Origin of the JSA...
|
|
|
Re: Catalog of Shooter firsts
|
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 824
Active
|
Active
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 824 |
I'll go ahead and add some of the credits for Bates, Bridwell, Binder, Hamilton, Siegel and Levitz.
Jerry Siegel:
Legionnaires:
Superboy Shrinking Violet Phantom Girl Matter-Eater Lad Bouncing Boy Brainiac 5 Chameleon Boy Colossal Boy Invisible Kid(Lyle Norg) Sun Boy Triplicate Girl Ultra Boy
Villians:
Lightning Lord Computo Cosmic King Glorith Saturn Queen Spider Girl
Associates:
Dev-Em Comet the Superhorse Jimmy Olsen
Miscellaneous:
Races/Species:
Durlans
Groups
Legion of Super-Villians Legion of Super-Pets
Note: I am not certain if Siegel is also credited with many of home plantes and species of the Legionaires...
For instance the Caargittes, Coluans, Bismollians, Imskians, Bgztlians and their respective planets. - Ed
IMO, it's possible that some of those races/species/planets were created by Bridwell.
Whether that's true or not...
Jerry Siegel is probably the most important creator in Legion history...
There's no doubt he created the most memorable Legionnaires.
|
|
|
Re: Catalog of Shooter firsts
|
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 824
Active
|
Active
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 824 |
Edmond Hamilton:
Legionnaires:
Dream Girl Element Lad Light(ning) Lass Magnetic Kid TimberWolf Polar Boy
Villians:
Roxxas Starfinger The Time Trapper
Associates:
Chlorophyll Kid Color Kid Double Header Duplicate Boy Fire Lad Gas Girl Evolvo Lad Beast Boy Life Lass Night Girl Proty I Proty II Stone Boy
Miscellaneous:
Races/Species:
Proteans
Groups:
Legion of Substitute Heroes Heroes of Lallor
|
|
|
Re: Catalog of Shooter firsts
|
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 824
Active
|
Active
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 824 |
Otto Binder:
Legionnaires:
Lightning Lad Saturn Girl Cosmic Boy Star Boy Supergirl
Associates:
Beppo the Super Monkey Elastic Lad Insect Queen Kid Psycho Krypto Power Boy Streaky the Super Cat
Miscellaneous:
Groups:
The Legion of Super Heroes!!!!!!
|
|
|
Re: Catalog of Shooter firsts
|
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 824
Active
|
Active
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 824 |
E Nelson Bridwell:
Legionnaires:
White Witch
Villians:
Prince Evillo
Associates:
RJ Brande
Miscellaneous:
Origins:
The Legion of Superheroes
Possibly the origins and home planets of many, many Legionnaires, between his writing Superboy #147, and the Secrets of the Legion Miniseries.
|
|
|
Re: Catalog of Shooter firsts
|
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 824
Active
|
Active
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 824 |
Paul Levitz:
Legionnaires:
Quislet Tellus Sensor Girl Invisible Kid II Dawnstar
Villians:
Mentalla Infinite Man Omen Prophet Magpie Zymyr Flare Caress Starfinger II Ol-Vir Danielle Foccart(Computo II)
Associates:
Shvaughn Erin Gigi Cuisimano Karate Kid II Atmos Doctor Gym'll Graym Ranzz Validus Ranzz Yera Allon
Miscellaneous:
Numerous...most notably the Encyclopedia Galactica feature and organizing the Legion world.
Levitz has a few memorable creations but considering the amount of time he wrote the book compared to the other creators...not that many and not that memorable.
To be fair...a lot of the creations of the other writers became more memorable because of Levitz using them...at the same time, he killed off or irrevocably altered many of them.
To date IMO...Levitz is the only writer to actually generate a shred of excitement about any of Kirby's Fourth World creations.
Levitz excelled at huge epics like EarthWar and the GDS...and organizing, tweaking and polishing the work of the other creators.
|
|
|
Forums14
Topics21,066
Posts1,050,237
Legionnaires1,731
|
Most Online53,886 Jan 7th, 2024
|
|
Color Kid
Largo, Florida..originally from Champaign, Illinois
Posts: 43
Joined: July 2004
|
|
|
|