Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Long Live the Legion! The Cover & Solicit for SLoSH #25... Spoilers

Maybe she's strangling him because he triggered her "kill Kal-El" programming.

It wouldn't be the first time he was mistaken for a son of Jor-El.

Thanks guys!
The questions about the PZ Projector will be answered in the issues leading up to his return.

We'll also be seeing quite a few characters that have been 'in demand' but in new versions.

I'm having a complete blast drawing this stuff!

Does this mean Chuck? And Tenzil? and......

CONDO!!!!!!!!!!!!! ?

Thanks guys!
The questions about the PZ Projector will be answered in the issues leading up to his return.

We'll also be seeing quite a few characters that have been 'in demand' but in new versions.

I'm having a complete blast drawing this stuff!

OOOOOPS! Sorry about the double post!

Well make up your mind. Do you intend not to be rude or to call me a troll? "Logic," dictates using the established facts. You conveniently left out "setting." Again, ANYBODY can redefine the characters of the franchise such as Waid has done. If ANYBODY can do it, it's not creative. Creativity requires building new things within constraints of established fact, within established setting. They took an end run. This ain't Monel, Valor, Mon'el or any other previous Legion character. It's someone with a similarly designed costume. Those deviations from the original all had reason to exist. Not particularly good reason in my opinion, but reason. So I'm asking, what is the reason here for creating yet another "Monel" as well the others?

Again with your intent to not be rude? Let's turn the rudeness around. If you are so desperate to have a "Legion" to talk about that you're willing to accept anything put forth with that name, then I feel bad for you. Back atcha.

Now maybe someone ELSE has some INSIGHT that would provide answers to my questions.

I am attached to the Legion portrayals of "yesterday." Aren't we all? Some of the characters in this book are interesting enough to generate discussion, though the story telling has been addressed in other threads with mixed results. If these characters had different names, different costumes I might not feel as if someone were trying to take advantage of my (our?) attachment to sell me a bill of goods, a false product.

"Courage" requires having the bones to create a new book and take the risk it might not generate a new fan base. I do not see the courage in taking established character NAMES and putting new personalities, new background, reinvented motivations to them. If author interest had been to take the "characters seriously and examine the implications of their existence and roles" they would have grown the characters already available. I might also interject, they wouldn't have been the first to do so. Applying the word "courage" to the reboot makes no sense to me whatsoever.

So, my question is still, what were/are they trying to do that's related to the Legion of Super Heroes, if anything? How does it fit in with these "other changes?" (I don't read other books)

Why didn't they just grow the characters available or start a new book about a new team?

Was there some outside force that necessitated a "re-boot?" If it was sales, the major complaint before reboot seems to not have been addressed, slowly moving storyline. Sales were high through all the fake Superboys, snakes and raccons. In Batista, Coipel, and wonderful visits by Lightle, the book attracted top notch artists. We had grand discussions here on the many story threads. It was only after writing geared towards never finishing a storyline that interest wained.

It still seems most probable to me that the reboot was writers/publishers being lazy.

BTW, Still love the art.

I intended not to be rude. I wasn't calling you a troll; I was making a gratuitous 'Buffy the Vampire Slayer' reference. I tried to make that clear with the link but I guess it didn't work. Sorry.

Anybody can do it, yes, but not everybody can do it well. I think Waid and Kitson have done it well.

That's right. I do feel bad for anyone who likes the Legion but not this series, because they have nowhere to turn. Look, I miss both previous versions of the Legion as much as anybody does. My consolation is that I have the current version to continue with, and I like the current version too. If I didn't like the current version, I don't know where I'd be. Honestly, not trying to be rude.

As far as starting an entirely new title and characters for this new Legionish concept... well, I can only speak for myself (although I suspect I'm not alone), but I would not have bought that book. I'm a Legion fan, and the Legion is what I want, even if it's one that's different in texture from the one I'm familiar with.

I would have preferred it if they could have just, as you suggested, grown the characters available, but certainly there's no plausible in-story way to get from the characters and setting Abnett and Lanning were portraying to the ones Waid and Kitson are now portraying. So, if this is the Legion that Waid and DC specifically want, there was no way of getting here other than to reboot it.

Now, I don't want to put words in your mouth, but it seems to me that you find something 'unLegionish' about the current series. Is that fair to say?

If so, it's something I've heard before but don't understand. What is it about this Legion series that's so incompatible with the Legion tradition?

Barry, this is a truly powerful, passionate and striking cover. Well done!

I just want to know if this is going to be the same Lar Gand that went into the Phantom Zone in the last Superboy book, or if Waid is going to rewrite his origin too. I like that Lar had real ties to the past with his membership in LEGION and his time as Valor.

Hopefully with this being the two year mark of the new series it might start picking up and getting a little more interesting.

Nope (well "fair," but not correct) and Nothing. Not incompatible with Legion traditions, (except maybe that annoying "adult" conflict) or Titans, or Fantastic Four, or nearly any other team book we could mention, but it's still not Legion characters.

You hit my puzzlement nail on the head with this statement:

I wouldn't have used your word "certainly." I believe if this is the direction Waid wished to take the book, fine. Get from point A to B without a reboot.

I (most of us) give any authors of this book leeway to take the characters in new directions, as long as they smile when we whine. I've read plenty of Waid's work. I really like it. There's that Kingdom Come thing. I hear it was popular. Flash, was good. I don't reread them maybe as much as I'd like. Impulse was classic.

I really have trouble wrapping my thoughts around the belief that an author could not have taken the legacy given and reached what is now being presented in concept (if not the concrete details, Projectra still had a tail). They seem to me to have chosen to avoid creative pain and risk.

I really have trouble understanding why they have (in my observation) been given such wide berth from fandom if not for the belief that it was this or nothing. That to me is a defeatest. I've no problem saying we've as much vested as the stock holders, the authors, the artists. Some of us, near 50 years vested! It's worth a "fight."

I really have trouble believing that "they" (DC) didn't know just putting Wade on the book would attract new readers and Wade/Kitson would retain old readers and both fan groups would have hung on long enough for reasonably paced development until Waid got the book where he wanted to take the readers.

All three leading me to believe,...., something other than author creativity was behind this reboot, and singlely that. I just can't be put off that thought with my current understanding and I hate it when anything other than vision messes with. With the introduction of some character named "Monel," this seemed as good a thread as any to breach the topic.

sigh. Thank God for typing classes and multi-tasking operating systems. How else would I discuss Legion while typing up a test and a lesson plan on tautology.

Well, Lar was always my favorite Legionnaire, so I'm cautiously optimistic about his return.

And while posing possibilities, it strikes me that Lar and the Dominators have some history between them. Since we've already seen the Dominators in the book of late, might Lar's return have some connection? If Kara is a tool of the Dominators, it might help explain the cover to #25.

But as I've said before, the title's covers have consistently turned out not to be representative of actual moments in the book itself.

Hmmm...there was that odd comment from one of the Dominators in the issue which portrayed Kara's arrival. Something else else about the "biological" bomb having arrived safely and undetected. This Kara could be an "SW6" Supergirl that they created and Lar could be on to their scheme. He had plenty of time to watch them from the Phanotom Zone after all.

Yay! Mon-El is back! My favorite legionnaire. I've always considered him to be one of the members that MUST be in the group (Along with Imra, Brainy, Cos, Garth, Tinya, and Jo.)

I only hope this Mon-El and Shadow Lass hook up.

Of course, that cover worries me a little, but I'm sure there's a really good explanation for why Kara is strangling Lar. Perhaps he's having a really bad lead poisoning episode and she's trying to keep him from hurting anyone?

one thing bothers me about the cover. Kara's hands look bigger than Mon-el's. No? or am i reading it wrong. Mon'el's hands look too tiny to me. sorry Barry.

Well, what I mean is that the current setting has certain elements:

1. a stagnant, calcified, narrow-minded society
2. a long-standing ongoing history of peace and safety
3. a stifling atmosphere for teenagers

Things like that. These things are all part of the context that Waid has judged, and I agree, make the most sense for giving rise to a Legion that can rise to prominence while still being just a bunch of kids. But none of those things were true of the setting of the DnA Legion. And, after all the galactic turmoil we saw in that series, there would have been no way to plausibly introduce them.

Did Barry Kitson just confirm the appearance of Calamity King, Lester Spiffany, Infectious Lass, Calorie Queen, and Nardo in upcoming issues?

I'm surprised no one has suggested the "She's not strangling him, she's just checking for an Adam's Apple" possibility.

I will admit that those elements, and the idea of the legion more as movement than team, were amongst those that made me want to give the threeboot Legion a chance. I saw no particular reason to cancel the DnA series, but then again I saw no reason that Paul Levitz should have handed over the reigns for the 'Five Years Later' Legion (Life? What do you mean the man wants a life? This is the Legion we're talking about here )

I can also understand Blockade Lad's frustration with the slow pace of the current series, and the sometimes aparrantly pointless rebooting of a character (Triad springs to mind).

On the subject of this cover: If this Monel has been freed by Tarik's band, would it not make sense that he be brought into conflict with the Legion, and soon? If you're facing a group including a kryptonian, would you not throw your equivalent at her as soon as possible? He would take her out of the fight as far as the rest of your group were concerned.

Mon El has black hair. Hurray!

I'm excited. Mon-El is one of my favorites. But like Size Lad I am cautious. With all the Infinity Crisis stuff I've seen DC kind just do things similiar to post-Crisis and then it starts a tangled web.

Regarding this other group? I've stated before that some of the other characters we've been wanting to see may be part of it. Wildfire for instance. If I get Mon-El and Wildfire I will do back flips. The LSV so far has already given us Polar Boy and Nemesis Kid it seems. (though they had that generic alien look)

Finally Mon-El. Exciting and yes...scary.

Also having Mon-El fighting for teenager rights is a turn off for sure.

For me it depends. If this is an original-recipe type of Wildfire, then great, welcome aboard. If it's more of a DnA kind of Wildfire, then don't bother.

Maybe Kara's just practicing an extreme Vulcan nerve pinch? Or a deep tissue massage? After all, if M'Onel's pretty super, you'd have to squeeze pretty hard for that shiatsu...

I am sick and fever-y. This makes me feel better.

does this include the blue underpants over the red tights? (he said worriedly)

btw, how is your thumb?