Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Visionaries of Tomorrow The Origin of ...

BUMP for nonhumanoid Legionnaires and their esteemed creators (and to get past all those silly, you gotta admit, one-post "Legion Lost TPB" threads *sigh*) ...

What makes Steve's note on meta-origins especially interesting, thus far, is how Quislet's no-thumbs-etc. manipulation of matter ended up when manifesting in this universe. Everything he inhabited ultimately (and usually quite soon) FELL APART, remember!

I wonder if that side effect -- which happened only after Quislet had accomplished something with his possession, to be fair -- was from Paul Levitz's input to the character. To create a story-grist-building limitation or drawback of that power, perhaps?

Greybird guessed right. Paul was the one that suggested that Quislet's altered matter creations should crumble. I didn't want to dismiss his suggestions concerning the character, but the concept didn't really figure in to my thinking. I'm still not sure what scientific reason might be given to explain why Quis' creations should always dissolve.
Maybe we need some Julie Shwartz science to explain this.

Steve

Steve,

Maybe WHEN you re-introduce him into continuity, you can get rid of the crumble thing. I think it would be cool to have statues of Quislet's possessions laying around.

Also, keep Quis organic and Tellus' color communication.

Thanks,
Gary

Owl Lad said:
<< Steve, add me to the list of those clamoring for more info on the "Batgirl" design. Was there a name for her and background? >>

I always figured that the same inspiration that lead her to design an updated Bat costume would also influence her name. She'd most likely call herself Bat Girl, Nightwing, or maybe Sonar. She could have been called the Flying Fox ... but that would have been so AC Comics. : )

As for her background, maybe she (in keeping with Legion tradition) came from a world of people who used Sonar abilities in their everyday lives. Maybe she was visiting Earth at the time of the Legion tryouts, and inspired by the accomplishments of our planet's Bat Man, she decided to give it a go. After all, she might have reasoned, if non powered Earthlings can accomplish such great things in a Bat costume ...

Steve

BTW ... I should mention that the Bat Girl design we are talking about was originally done as a sample of my art. It was done specifically for the folks in the submissions department of DC. As I recall, Bat Girl was delivering a very high kick to the chin of a Teen Titans villain, as Robin and the other Titans rushed on to the scene in the background.
I'd always thought that Bat Girl's costume was a bit dull, and so I thought I'd spice it up a little. It did seem to get some attention. I remember one esteemed DC editor pulling me aside at Chicago Con and whispering, "This down here (pointing to the blue bikini style bottom)certainly gets your attention- of course, because we are both men- but it's just not practical." Of course, I countered with the impracticality of Heroines in heels, Wonder Woman's strapless bustier, men fighting in long flowing capes or wearing masks that would certainly impair their peripheral vision, the bare chested Hawkman ...
Isn't it funny how often people feel compelled to defend positions that they don't really believe in? That Bat Girl costume had served its purpose ... it got his attention.

Steve

Lancesrealm said:
<< Steve, I also loved your work on the Legion. The Legion women never looked better!
I do have a question, as well. Why was the Legion rebooted? >>

It may have just been a matter of crunching the numbers. DC editors had told me that the sales, since the beginning of the darker grimmer version of the Legion, had fallen to a fragment of what they had previously been. Although some readers truly seemed to appreciate the darker tone of the book, a great many more chose to stop buying the title. Couple the failing sales with the fact that many Legion fans within the professional community strongly disagreed with the creative direction of the series, and you can see that something was bound to happen ... or the Legion would have been cancelled outright.

Could there have been a better solution? I imagine so. Personally, I always felt that the dark grim Legion might simply be a possible future. After all, hadn't we already seen (in Legion continuity) that the Adult Legion stories of the Silver Age were not destined to be fulfilled? Levitz and Giffen did an annual that clearly showed that Shadow Lass was not doomed to die defending Earth, as had previously been shown. If the Adult Legion stories created by Shooter and Swan needn't be seen as gospel, what made the Giffen/Bierbaum adult Legion so daunting? I think the whole thing could have been dismissed by a story featuring a small group of younger Legionnaires paying a visit to their future and finding it horrific.

We could have simply returned to a time before the "5 year gap" with the young Legionnaires. They could have reported their findings to Brainiac 5, who would assure them that the time line that they visited needn't come true for them. He might tell them to keep it a secret from the others, but to consider their experience as a warning. Then, after the others left, we might see Brainy pondering quietly ... wondering if he truly believed what he had told them. What if his friends and Earth itself were truly destined for ruin? "No, it can't be. Such a fatalistic belief could destroy the heart of the Legion."

This could be followed by stories in which the Legion, especially those who had visited the future, would redouble their efforts to do good ... and to root out any cancers that might begin to develop within the Legion itself.

It might have worked.

Steve

See pages of original Steve Lightle art at ... http://www.geocities.com/stevelightle/home.html
Or see Steve's interactive online Batman adventure ... http://www.onstaradventure.com/ba_comic.htm

Remember just a while back, talking about Allegra? I mentioned that I had eventually used her as part of a super team that I wrote, penciled and inked for Marvel.

Well, here's a web site with more info, and some images from the book.
http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/newgenix.htm#Allegra

As I've said before, I did change her look a bit when she jumped over to New Genix. Originally I'd intended Allegra to have a scarlet and gold costume, inspired by the Flash.

Steve

Okey dokey - now we can all see what Munchkin would have looked like hows about telling us how you planned for him to join the Legion? Was he intended to join circa Tellus or for the reboot with Allegra?

I enjoyed looking at the 'New Genix' illustrations and bios.

Olivier had said in an interview, somewhere, that he was starting to redesign the Legion costumes, to give the Legion a sort of 1600's look (I think I have the era correct).

I've loved Sprouse's and Moy's designs, especially that some of the elements of the costumes were universally used for a recognizeable 'Legion' look, while keeping individuality a high priority.

If you became the primary Legion illustrator, would you design a new look for the Legion and Legion World?
Would you go for an era change - covering everyone on Earth+?

I know that I don't want this Legion to look like the pre-boot Legion.
BUT, I would certainly enjoy seeing new (and fairly practical) costumes for the 'Legion after LOST'.

Also, who would be your inker?
I'd love to see Andy continue at the job.
Would you have preference and do artists have a say in who they team with?

Shady

As neat as your idea about avoding the Legion reboot is Steve, I have a personal, selfish reason for being glad it did reboot. When Levitz' stupid Death of Invisible Kid was undone and Lyle restored in even greater glory, I was overwhelmed. Lyle being my favorite Legionnaire ...

There have been many creative developments since the reboot. I really loved the characters of Karate Kid and Ferro Lad ... both of which, I understand, have made a return since the reboot. I also understand that they're reintroducing Timber Wolf.

The reboot is here to stay, and I'm certainly not suggesting that we try to undue current Legion history in favor of a previous incarnation. Although, as I suggested, there was a time when the reboot could have been avoided. Personally, I would have preferred a solution that could have been integrated in a more organic way.

I've also long held the opinion that if a reboot was going to happen (as it has) then it should be handled by people who have a strong understanding and appreciation for what was essential to the Legion's greatness.

So, long story short ... it's cool to be happy that Invisible Kid is back.

Steve

That's correct...although at current time they're stranded on a planet that's only accessible once a decade. At least until Shikari finds 'em

That would probably be a big bonus for you...getting to draw Karate Kid under better circumstances than the first (and last) time you got to draw him.

Unfortunately at the loss of Colossal Boy/Leviathon, Lightning Lad/Live Wire, and Element Lad. So it's a trade off.
They can't even give me a Sun Boy! Steve, WHEN you start working on the book, please bring Dirk Morgna onto the team.

Thanks.

<< We could have simply returned to a time before the "5 year gap" with the young Legionnaires. They could have reported their findings to Brainiac 5, who would assure them that the time line that they visited needn't come true for them. He might tell them to keep it a secret from the others, but to consider their experience as a warning. Then, after the others left, we might see Brainy pondering quietly ... wondering if he truly believed what he had told them. What if his friends and Earth itself were truly destined for ruin? "No, it can't be. Such a fatalistic belief could destroy the heart of the Legion." >>

After about a year we could again send a group of Legionnaires into their future, and this time they might find something completely different. Perhaps they'd see a positive future, complete with Earth President Gim Allon presiding over a prosperous future. Maybe the Khunds could be beginning their integration into the mainstream of the United Planets when the Khund home world is attacked .. and the time travelling Legion could join forces with the adult Legion to defend it.

This would not only be an interesting story, but it would then put to rest the notion that the "dark" future of the "five year gap" was not the most probable future.

Whoever suggested that this could make a good elseworlds story was right. Hmmm ....

Steve Lightle

See pages of original Steve Lightle art at ... http://www.geocities.com/stevelightle/home.html
Or see Steve's interactive online Batman adventure ... http://www.onstaradventure.com/ba_comic.htm

Lyle was killed off long before Levitz touched the title. The blame for his demise belongs to Cary Bates.

The loss of Lightning Lad/Livewire & Element Lad is not the result of the reboot. Abnett & Lanning did that. Along with stranding Karate Kid & Ferro Lad and transforming Kinetrix into a statue of dirt.

Steve,

I initially suggested that your proposal for the "5-year gap" storyline be incorporated into the prior Legion continunity in an Elseworlds story in an Interlac email.

I think your idea has a lot to offer and certainly would give some of us old fart fans an opportunity to revisit this issue again and maybe put this whole subject to rest...

Additionally, it would certainly be nice to see another Legion Elseworlds story. Any chance of you proposing this to Paul & the powers that be at DC?

Glenn

Hi Steve,

On behalf of myself and the others who chat in the Legion Chatroom, I'd like cordially invite to join us every Tuesday in the "New" Legion Chatroom. We've set up a chatroom address for non AOL users and we'd love to have you join us. We chat every Tuesday from 5:30pm-6:30pm EST. If you don't have AOL, all you have to do is go to http://www.aim.com and download the AOL instant messenger and get a USERNAME. From there, send an AIM message to myself Currieray or to Bunglehex and we'll send you a "personal invite" which will take you instantly to the chatroom.

Hope to see you there!

Ray Currie
Long Live The Legion!
P.S. the URL is

aol://2719:10-4-The%20Legion

------------------
"One day, I shall come back, yes, I shall come back...until then there must be no regrets, no tears, no anxiety. Just go forward in all your beliefs and prove to me that I am not mistaken in mine!"

"Invulnerability? Ha! How do you measure that against a God?"

"I was alone. A billion years of solitude. A billion more. Time blurs after awhile."

Steve Lightle's two-part suggestion above for How to Avoid Death and Dissolution (also posted on LegionPics, but it's easier to reply here) ... well, it's too perfect in its being hopeful, and in the spirit of the preboot Legion, to improve upon. That's all I can say.

The Legion deserved, after thirty years, more than someone who simply wanted to Blow It All Up Real Good. I only wish a Lightle-type had been its steward, not a Giffen-type its abuser.

As to this, Steve:
>[...] This would not only be an interesting story [damn straight!], but it would then put to rest the notion that the "dark" future of the "five year gap" was not the most probable future. <

I think you must mean here "... was the most probable future," don't you? -That- is what oughtta be put to rest.

Its internal suggestion that the dark TMK-and-later future was probable or inevitable, with age and weariness, was what was wrong with it above all. The Legion is NOT properly about age and weariness! Not in characters, not in setting.

> Whoever suggested that this could make a good elseworlds story was right. Hmmm ... <

Put TMK-and-later into trade paperbacks with that Elseworlds seal on 'em, and they might actually be readable, as protracted graphic novels. Not a pleasant or enduring read, but a read. In monthly dribbled-out chunks, they were nearly unendurable, quite apart from ALL their other brutal faults.

I agree with this.
Although, I don't see that becoming older and more weary means that a team automatically becomes jaded and hopeless.
The JLA and the JSA are both teams of older members and they have very youthful attitudes, most of the time.

I wanted the team to age gracefully and the younger members to be added in as would normally happen.
We may not have ended up with Lyle and Andy, but we may have got a cousin or a nephew.

The Adult team didn't HAVE to self-destruct and the Young team didn't HAVE to be clones.
And NONE of it HAD to be rebooted.

Shady

Ah-HAH! I was right!!! Thanks, Steve! Now I can put a copy of this next to my "Kara is Sensor Girl" letter that got published waaaay back when.

------------------
"Deathtraps: When the forces of Evil acquire superpowers, they apparently also develop the ability to conceive of ridiculously convoluted ways of finishing off the good guys. It's not enough to just shoot someone in the head; instead villains conceive of deathtraps involving a bandsaw, a tub of lard, six straws, a flock of geese, and the Statue of Liberty.
Some smart villains are probably seeking therapy to help them with this."

--A.C.E. Supers (a really fun RPG)

How's this--
The target object has an innate molecular/crystaline structure. The energy patterns of the Quislet entity over-ride and erase these, both reshaping the target and replacing the previous rigid structure with flexible patterns. For example, a diamond's interlocking hexagonal bonds would be transformed into an amorphous gel.

When the Quislet-induced energy vacates, the target automatically reverts to its original state. Unfortunately the now absence of an innate pattern causes the atoms of the target to fall apart as a fine dust that quickly blows away....

Theoretically a Quislet-altered target might be stucturally stabilized by either the imposition of a new pattern or by locking in the Quislet pattern. Unfortunately, such a process would probably take longer to set up than the normal Q-time limit. Still, it might be possible to accomplish this in a controlled environment, with Quislet affecting a target already prepped for post-Q stabilization.

Okay, lecture in paranorm metastructural re-engineering over. ...

Good explanation, I say.

Personally, I always like the disintegration after-effect.

And Quislet was always a favourite of mine, by the way.

Didn't they explore this in Legion #300? We saw several different 'futures' while Braniac 5 was trying to cure Douglas Nolan (Ferro Lads Brother). At the end of the book we saw a reality where he was invited to join the Legion after the death of his brother and faded from their 'reality' to merge with his counterpart? Couldn't this whole 5 year gap be explained as the team viewing one of those 'other' realities?

..Ahh what might have been

------------------
Better to have a mind open as a book than closed as a fist

Cosmic Toast Man said:
<< Didn't they explore this in Legion #300? >.

Yes, that was the issue I was citing as precedent for the "alternate futures" premise.

I think that the only continuity problem might be that post-Crisis DC seemed to be saying that all alternate futures were merged .. but that just doesn't make much sense to me.

Steve