Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Visionaries of Tomorrow How important was Dave Cockrum?

Huge. I know I rant about how the Levitz/Giffen Legion was the best, etc. But I try to look back through Legion history and I just see the Cockrum stuff as a big jump.

IMO Marvel was genius having him do the X-Men afte they saw what he had done with the Legion.

Design wise I also struggle to see why the Zero Hour Legion and the current Legion look so short & skinny? I mean Brainy or Invisilbe Kid? Sure. Ultra Boy a few inches shorter than an SP? I don't get.


Anyone else think the Cockrum Legion was a serious update and wonder why DC has stayed away from a similiar version to that?

Cockrum's re-design WAS huge. it demanded that the LSH be taken out of the 8 page back-up in Action and given their own book. then, even though Cockrum left, his designs lived on for decades including when the Legion was a top ten seller at DC.

i think part of the reason they don't just do that era all over again is that many of the designs recall "the 70's". actually, aside from PG's bell bottoms and some thigh-high boots, nothing is specifically 70's fashion except the "star trek-ish" legion cruiser. But the Cockrum look was so strong, it is associated with the time in which it was published.
Even though they no longer read the legion, or maybe never have, much of comic fandom know of Phantom Girl's bell bottoms, Saturn Girl's pink bikini, Jeckie's revealing outfit, Element Lad's phallic arrow, Timber Wolf's pre-Wolverine look,Cosmic Boy's Grell bustier.
i'd LOVE to see Element Lad return to his blue-green arrow suit!!
think about it Barry!!

If only we could go back in time. Make sure Dave was graciously given that two-page "Wedding of Bouncing Boy and Duo Damsel" original art he wanted back. Just maybe we'd see a Legion today that was as popular as the X-Men are now. A Legion that had members like Nightcrawler and Storm.

Rereading Dave's issues is one of my favorite Legion things to do. The shift from the Silver Age LSH to the 70's LSH is right there in Dave's art...and you can just *feel* the reinvigoration into the Legion.

His importance is, and always will remain, immense.

Aye. As for some of the costumes being outdated? Yeah Phantom Girl's bell bottoms may be outdated but cleavage never is out of style.

I agree about Element Lad maybe getting something similiar to his old Cockrum costume.

I also think the fact that they didn't look like kids but young adults was a big deal.

Reinvigoration.

Funny you should bring that up, Scott - i had a field day thinking up new characters along Cockrum-lines and I could picture a Storm-esque type Legionette called "Wind Girl" - with a Wonder Girl like-pony tail and fringe (coz unless Shrinking Violet's "bangs" constituted a fringe look, then Dave had done it already), a curling sideburns look...

The costume would have had flared flapping sleeves and a catsuit type of look for the rest of the costume. The boots would actually be part of the "leotard" and have white "elongated" downward facing points to each side of the leg. The collar would be upturned like Jeckie's Shooter-era costume.

When i acquire a scanner, i'll send my "retro" design for everyone's perusal...

Outasight, man!

Dave Cockrum made the 30th Century look ... well ... like the 30th Century. Stylized and distinctive, something exotic enough to intrigue, familiar in its excess enough to get customers in the figurative door.

Rather than the Superman / Superboy mythos warmed over, which has long been my first impression whenever I look at an "Adventure"-era issue or archive volume. The Legion only stopped merely echoing Superboy with Cockrum's designs.

Mike Grell and (the early) Keith Giffen made their own huge strides, but it was upon Cockrum's foundation.

I wonder if the wedding-art fiasco, if avoided, would have in fact kept Cockrum at DC and working on the Legion. Marvel seemed to have let him take up freer reins yet with the X-Men. In a way, it liberated him to move on.

(The worst possible fate for Marvel would be for DC to fold, and vice versa. Competition and talent-poaching help keep both of them viable.)

I am wondering if the same loopholes which prevented Jim Shooter from getting residuals from his own workload, could apply to why Dave left DC? Aside from DC's inability to honour Cockrum's request about the wedding spread.

My comic shop is having a sale this week and I quite luckily snatched up an issue of Superboy #191 dirt cheap. Loved it! It's apparently just before Dave got to do the redesign since Garth still has his old costume and none of the girls are in bikinis yet.

It's some wonderful Dave Cockrum/Murphy Anderson art but I have to wonder if there would have been as much impact without the new costumes just a few issues later. There's already a hint of it with the new look to the Legion cruiser but that's the only new hi-tech equipment in that particular story.

When Dave and Carey took over a bit later the stories went from being superheroes with a little science fiction to being full blown sci-fi with colorful superheroes. From Lester delRay with capes and a clubhouse to Asimov with aliens with powers and costumes.

I'm not even sure Erg-1 would have worked as a character before Cockrum came along but afterward it was hard to imagine a Legion without Wildfire. (still is). I know I was happy to see the upgrade and so were my friends even the ones that were die-hard Marvel fans began to like the Legion in those days.

Thanks Dave.

Oh yeah? Shady, Jeckie and Dreamy don't look as if they are wearing ball-gowns, either... *snorts* bikinis - indeed!

Truth.
Yet it was still the "cross your heart" and a headband hair look for Shady, Jeckie still wore that blue one-piece swimsuit with a red cape, gloves and high heeled boots and Dreamy ... I guess it's Nura in that purple dress...wasn't in the metallic/white outfit we all loved so much yet.

Just one or two stories afterward we get to see Imra in one of the sexiest outfits ever to grace a comic book (for the day), Cosmic Boy donned the infamous bare chested bustier and Jeckie unveiled her spectacular form in a costume cut so low that even Vampirella was jealous.

Cockrum sure gave fanboys like me some eye poppin' outfits, yes indeed.

Trivia - Shady's hairdo was changed to the French bob-with-yellow-tiara look (as well as her costume) in SUPERBOY 200.

Cosmic Boy's bustier was created by Mike Grell, not Cockrum...I apologise for my pickiness.

Phantom Girl's bell bottoms are so outdated, they're back Nothing makes a girl's legs longer than a pair of flared pants that're tight through the thigh.

Optical illusion I guess.

Thunder thighs ruled in the 70's, too...

Cockrum's art did several things to update the look and feel of the Legion. First of all, he made the characters look like young adults instead of young teens. He did the bulk of the costume redesigns, with an emphasis on showing more skin. He also made the Legionnaires look very attractive, sexy. The girls were very chic and pretty and he gave most of the guys more muscletone. His villains and aliens looked really cool. He made the action scenes more dynamic and exciting. The bursts of energy were more vivid. He drew shiny things shiny, lots of armor and machinery. The colors seemed more vibrant over his art. The details in his linework were excellent. Grell was the perfect artist to follow Cockrum. His work continued the intertia of what Cockrum began. Sherman was great after that, but things started to fizzle after Sherman. For years. Then, Broderick made a jump-start, and Giffen took OFF!!!! I agree with Greybird about how Cockrum and Giffen were key deigners in Legion history.

Cockrum's importance to comics in general and to the Legion and X-Men in particular cannot be overstated IMO.

Particularly telling is the fact that his runs on both were so short... (only 5 full-issue Legion books; his (first) X-Men run was what, 15 issues? # 94-107, plus the giant).

Of all the great Legion artists, and there are MANY, Dave Cockrum is my favorite. Anyone who can generate as much excitement as he did for any comic series is purely a genius. His redesign of the Legion was light years ahead of its time - the Alex Ross of the 70's.

Esther/LLASH, Dave's second tenure with the X-MEN (in spite of the various fill-ins by other artists) was even longer - 16 issues! Although the quality of his drawings weren't quite up to the standard of his earlier issues (GS XMEN-XMEN 100) , he was a giant in the comics industry, for sure!

I agree that by the time of Dave's second X-MEN run, his artwork had lost some of its lustre.

The FUTURIANS graphic novel is a stunning work of art but I began to notice a slght decline in the artwork in the series that folowed. Still good, but not his best.

But in his 70s heyday, Cockrum was THE artist to beat.

I reckon if either Sam Grainger or Joe Rubinstein had been kept on to augment Dave's layouts, the artwork would have taken a quantum leap into fabulousness...

Cockrum in my opinion best superhero costume designer ever. The Legion, the X-Men, and much more.

To Jorg-EM:

Amen.

Supreme Comic Book Artists by decade:

Wally Wood - 50's
Curt Swan - 60's
Dave Cockrum - 70's
George Perez - 80's
Alex Ross - 90's

based on innovation, visual appeal, and raising the bar from previous work and convention (IMHO).

Thanks Glen...

I hope Dave will get a chance to go back to drawing real soon because I grew up enjoying his stuff with the Legion and later on, the X-Men...

Brian