Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Visionaries of Tomorrow Legion Creator Tenure

Hey gang,

I'm in the process of rebuilding my Legion Creator Tenure list, not seen since a 1996 usenet post. I'd appreciate your thoughts on additions/deletions/corrections, etc.

What I'm counting on the list as a "Legion book" is posted here .

A final draft of the writers list is done and posted here .

I'm working on artists and hope to have that up next week. Editors will come some time after that.

I'd post the whole writers list here, but it's long. Still, to whet your appetite, here's the top 10.

WRITERS:

1. PAUL LEVITZ: 162
(TDT C-55 — BDC 24 — CB 1-4 — DCP 13,43,59sc — DCS 28 — JLA 147,148 — KK 1-9 — LSH2 281sc,282sc,284-313 — LSH2A 1-3 — LSH3 1-63 — LSH3A 1-4 — LSH4 100 — LDCG 2 — SLSH 225,226,228-231,233,235-237,239,240pl,241-245,246pl,247,250-251sc — SO2 8,25 — SUB 1 —SSHS — TLSH 314-319,320-325pl)
(NOTE: KK 2-9 pseudonymously with David Michelinie as “Barry Jameson.”)

2. TOM McCRAW: 133
(ADCG 1 — L* 0,19pl,24-41-53pl,l55-60pl,62-74pl,76pl,77 — L*A 2 — LSH4 20ast,42pl,50-61,0,62-67,68-72pl,73-81pl,82,84-85,89-108p,110-119pl,120-121 — LSH4A 6,7pl — LSF1-2 — S96 8 — SB2 45pl)

3. KEITH GIFFEN: 103
(CD 5-12ast, 15ast,20ast,21ast,25ast,26ast — DCP 59 — DCW 1-6 -- L31 — L3 1-4pl — LSH2 293-313pl — LSH3 1-5pl,50-55pl,57-58pl,60-63pl — LSH3A 3pl — LSH4 1-24pl,26-27pl,29-32pl, 34-36pl,38pl — NSB 50 — SUB 1pl — TLSH 314-317pl)

4. TOM PEYER: 92
(F80G 2 — LoL 1-4sc — L* 19-34,40,44,47,54,75,1000000 — L*A 2 — LSH4 67,68-70pl,73-108,110-121,1000000 — LSH4A 6-7 — S96 11-12 — SM+ 1 — SG3A 2 — SB3 45pl — LSF 1-2)

5. MARK WAID: 73
(BB2 3-6 — IMP 9,21,25 — L* 16-18,0,19pl — L*A 1-2 — LSH4 59-61,0pl,62-67,68-70sc,71 — LSH4A 6 —LSH5 1-15 — SgLSH 16-28,30 — TTLS 1 — VLR 9,11-19)

6. TOM & MARY BIERBAUM: 67
(L* 1-15 — LSH4 1sc,2-41,42sc,43-50 — LSH4A 1-4 — SO2 42,47)

7. DAN ABNETT & ANDY LANNING: 63
(GDC — L 1-33 — LL1-12 — L* 78-81 — LSH4 122-125 — LSF 2-3 — LW1-6 —YJW 1)

8. JIM SHOOTER: 59
(ACT 378,380-382,384 — ADV 346-349,352-355,357-380 — LSH5 37-43 — SLSH 209-213,215,217,219-224 — SJO 99,106)

9. ROGER STERN: 43
(L* 35-39, 40sc,41-43,45-53,55-65,67-74,76-77 — L*A 3 — LSH4 91pl,100,105pl)

10. GERRY CONWAY: 32
(LSH2 259-264,265pl,266-76,277-278pl — SLSH 227,232,234-235,248-249,252-258)

I guess it's no surprise that Levitz comes out on top. It does surprise me that McCraw is next and that Peyer ranks at number four. For some reason, I never think of them as being significant Legion writers.

Well, done, PB. Thanks for sharing your hard work.

I said it'd be a week or so before the artists list was finished, but I went ahead and plowed through with it. It's still a rough draft, but I think it's complete enough for purusal by the Legion of Super-Fact Checkers:

Full list here ; top 10 listed below.

ARTISTS:
(abbreviations: p=pencils, i=inks, br=breakdowns, ly-layouts, fn=finishes)

1. KEITH GIFFIN: 99
(CB 1-4br — CD 27-31br,34br,37br— DCP 59br — L31p — LSH2 285-313p — LSH2A 1p — LSH3 1-2p,11p,20p,45p,50-55p,57-63p — LSH3A 1-2p — LSH4 1-21p,26-32br,34-36br,38br,39,1000000p — NSB 50p— SUB 1p)

2. RON BOYD: 79
(ADC 10i — L*13i,0i,19i — L*A 1i,3i — LSH4 40-48i,50,52-56i,58-61i,0i,62-94i,96-98i,100-108i,110-112i — LSH4A 4i,6i — LSF 1 — S96 10i — VLR 8i)

3. JEFFERY MOY: 64
(LoL 2p — L* 15p,0p,19-24p,26p,29-44p,46-55p,57-65p,67-78p — L*A 1-2p — LSH4 89p,94p,100p — LSF1-2p)

4. W.C. CARANI: 59
(LoL 2i — L* 21i,23-24i,26-55i,57-65i,67-78i — L*A 2i — LSH 100i — LSF 1,2i)

5. LARRY MAHLSTEDT:49
(LSH2 285-287i,289-294i,296-313i — LSH3 1-6i,8-11i,13-15i,17-21i,24i — LSH3A 2i — LSH4A 1i — SO2 42i)

6. CURT SWAN: 42
(ADV 293p,313p,340-345p,347p,349-357p,359-360p,365-372p — DCP 43p,80p — LSH2 300p,306p — LSH2A 3p — LSH3 39p,45p — LSH3A 2p — LSH4 31p — SO2 46p,47p — SB 98p,117p — SM 147p — SJO 72p)

7. AL GORDON: 44
(LSH3 55-61i — LSH4 1-8i,12-21i,26i,28-29i,31-32i,34i,113i,1000000i — LSH4 3i — SO2 47i —TW 1-5 — VLR 1-2i)

8. MIKE DeCARLO: 41
(BB179i — LSH2 309i — LSH3 7i,19-20i,22-23i,25-54i,56i,62-63i — LSH3A 3i)

9. LEE MODER: 38
(LSH4 62-66p,68-88p, 90-92p, 94-100p,109p — LSF 1p)

10. JOHN FORTE: 36
(ADV 300-312,314-321,322-323p,324-327,332p,333,334-337p,338,339p —SJO 76)

10. JIM SHOOTER: 36
(ACT 378br,380br,381br,384br — ADV 346-349br,352-255br,357-380br)

10. ANDY LANNING: 36
(LSF2i — L* 78-80i — LSH4 122-123i — LL1-12i — LW1i — L 1-4i,6-8i,10-12i,14-18i,27i)

Heh, now that's a really curious list... Boyd & Moy in the Top 3? I guess artists in the Modern Age are just a little more committed with their runs... Perhaps adding cover artists may be more effective; that'd give old-timers like Swan and Cockrum a few spots above.

Ironically... both Levitz and Giffen were not listed in the 'Visionnaries of Tommorow'... even though it had some late creators.

I'm also surprised at how well reboot-era creators did. Especially McCraw and Peyer, who aren't so popular.

Interesting that the top writers stuck with Legion longer than the top artists.

Only creators with memberships (known to us at least ) are listed there. No slights intended by anyone who hasn't joined up with us.

Of course, Peyer and McCraw had the advantage of two monthly Legion books running during their tenure. That helps to bump up the average.

Hi Portfolio Boy, Ferro here. While I usually just lurk, I had to send a quick note. A return of the Legion Creator Tenure List!

I do recall promising to send you a paper copy of your original list. My apologies as I moved back to the United-States three years ago and never sent the list. If you still have a need to reference your old list, just send me a message and I will be sure to make this a priority.

Just reviewing the artist list quickly, I wanted to break the three-way tie for spot number 10. Andy Lanning inked the cover and all of the interiors to Legionnaires #81.

Thanks again, Portfolio Boy, these lists are always appreciated!

All in all, that list is as insightful as the Top Grossing Movies list, inflation unadjusted.

And I sorta knew about the VoT... and Cockrum actually crashed on this pad? Didn't think he'd live long enough for LW.

Wow, reboot was really that bad! That's why I thought it never ended: they really put out too much "work" during that period. Which makes it even more impressive how high we place Shooter, Cockrum, Grell and Lightle in Legion canon: in fewer issues, so much more quality.
But I thought Waid would be higher in the writer's list.

Hm, McCraw and Peyer, quantity instead of quality as we are saying here... of course they had a better chance to reach high numbers with two books a month. McCraw as a colorist never did another book again, or did he?

I'm amazed Laroque and DeCarlo aren't on the artists list...it seemed like they were the art team for virtually the entire Baxter run.

It could just be that it seemed to last an enternity because I literally hated what DeCarlo's inks did to poor Greg Laroque's pencils. I always figured Larocque had to be somewhat of a true gentleman because DeCarlo ruined his stuff month after month. To the degree that I'd say the pairing was a career setback for LaRoque. His other work he's shown to defeinitely have a fantasy-esque flair to his work that always kind of reminded me of a sci-fi version of Esteban Maroto...but the result of the pairing with DeCarlo was just ugly art.


Also, if L.E.G.I.O.N. is to be counted then Barry Kitson enters the contest(in fact he might even then claim the top artist spot) and Waid and Giffen both get a bump to their numbers as well.

Superboy,

I did not include L.E.G.I.O.N. on the list. My reasoning was that the list should count only what seems intended as a "LSH" story. For that reason, I left out L.E.G.I.O.N., all but one issue of Wanderers, all cameo and A/R books, and most minor appearances.

I labored a long time over whether or not to include Phase's appearances in L.E.G.I.O.N. and Star Man's tenure with JSA, because I do count stories featuring individual Legionnaires, but ultimately decided against it.

I am however, very open to debate on what should or should not be included on the list. What do you think?

BTW, DeCarlo is on the list at #8 (41 books worked on). I have Laroque bit further down the list:

15. GREG LaROCQUE: 33
(LSH3 17-48p — LSH3A 3p)

I think L.E.G.I.O.N. should be considered part of the LSH canon, myself. If I am not mistaken, I remember there was a scene on a later issue of v4 where a L.E.G.I.O.N. logo was found under some debris and this would tie the whole Dominator War directly to that book. But maybe I saw too much.

Yeah I guess it's a judgement call really...not just PG but Valor was in it for a bit as well.


Hmmm...I don't suppose you have the rankings of Joe Staton and Dave Cockrum available do you?

I think Cockrum definitely rates the highest in terms of impact to actual issues drawn.

Cockrum actually never did do all that many Legion books. I have him ranked 27th:

27. DAVE COCKRUM: 17
(L 25p — LSH2 300 — LSH3 45p — SO2 42p — SB 183p,184p,188p,190p,191,193,195 — SLSH 197-201,202p)

Staton did slightly more, although the figures are bolsterd by his inking the Karate Kid series.

19. JOE STATON: 27
(KK 1-9i — LSH2 259-260p,300p — SLSH 227p,243-249p,252-258p)

What does everyone else think? Should L.E.G.I.O.N. be added to the list? I've got two yes votes, so far.

Frankly, I forgot about Valor. Two Legionnaires, plus to Legion ancestors, plus a whole lot of Legion pre-history (although more and more of it retconned all the time) would argue for the series inclusion. I think I'm leaning that way, myself.

Thoughts?

You'll have to decide, Portfolio Boy, what criteria constitutes a Legion story in your view. The idea is to not make the list so unwieldy that it would be meaningless. From my own experience, a somewhat narrow definition works best. This would mean excluding solo Legionnaire appearances as well as L.E.G.I.O.N. (Solo Legionnaires are not the same as the Legion as a team, but that's my view. Again, it depends on what criteria makes a story a Legion story to you.)

I had a similar experience several years ago when I wrote biographies for a Web site dedicated to the rock group Jefferson Airplane/Jefferson Starship/Starship. Not only did this group change its name twice, but it also underwent numerous personnel changes. I wrote about 30 member biographies (and a lengthy group history), but I drew the line by excluding members of Hot Tuna, an Airplane spinoff group, who were not also members of the parent group. I reasoned that Hot Tuna was a different group, just as L.E.G.I.O.N. is a different group from the Legion, despite strong connections.

Only one fan ever questioned me on this decision, and he never responded when I gave him my reason.

The point is, make sure your criteria is logical to you as the list-maker, even if others may have their own ideas and preferences.

Go ask Alice.

I did. She said to check with the Dormouse.

Was she ten feet tall?

No, she was just as small.

What website did you write the biographies for? Are they still up?