Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Visionaries of Tomorrow Shooter: It's Official

While on the one hand I am unreasonably excited about Shooter returning to write LSH, this is the start of the football season and I am fan of the Washington Redskins. Here's hoping that Shooter has more success in his return than the great Joe Gibbs has had.

This is a truly unprecedented event. The child prodigy returns forty years after his debut. Yes, Shooter has had his trials and tribulations in the industry, but he seems to have learned and persevered. He comes across as thoughtful, mature, and gracious in the interview. I think that bodes well. Good for DC for marking the Legion's 50th anniversary in such an auspicious way.

Anyone still doubting?

I predict Shooter's LSH in the top 20 or higher.[/QB][/QUOTE]

I seem to recall a few years ago someone else saying the book would out sale the teen titans.

what's that saying about repeating history?

I'm also willing to forgive Shooter for "Defiant Comics" as a whole... He was on the rebound from Valiant after all.

I predict the arrival of the FATAL FIVE coming soon!
i'd love it if we also got Chemical King, Pulsar Stargrave, and some of the other Shooter creations, but i'll be very happy with just some solid stories and characterization. Also, he's great at creating new adversaries which the LSH desparately needs. Manapul's got the artist chops, both exotic and attractive, but how's his history at monthly deadlines? anybody got any idea?

The only work of Shooter's that I like is his run on the Adventure-Era Legion. That's why I'll give his upcoming LSH run a chance, but I'm not expecting much.

I haven't read it, but I've got a morbid curiosity about it (I think Shooter's original Korvac story is one of the biggest wastes of trees ever published. And don't anyone try the George Perez defense, because Perez only worked on the first half.) Could you please PM me a link?

When I think of the shear number of wonderful bad-guys created by Shooter, I'm really excited he's commited to writing a new one instead of relying only on what was left by Waid.

Still, I'm going to give myself every opportunity to enjoy the current run.

Shooter has always been a hit-or-miss writer to me ...

... brilliant on Adventure-era Legion, for whom he created teen personalities and their most important villains.

... so-so on '70s, Legion, where he substituted mysogeny (Cos slapping Ayla) for character developlment.

... below so-so on the Korvac War. "Waste of trees" is an apt description, Stealth. The story would have been salvageable if it had been half the length and featured a third of the cast.

... abyssmal on his post # 200 Avengers stories. This run featured some ground-breaking ideas (YJ suffering a nervous breakdown), but they were poorly executed and bland -- as if EIC Shooter was writing the plots on his lunch break.

... abyssmal on Secret Wars. Gimmickry wins over story development.

... brilliant with Valiant. See above comments.

... so-so with Defiant. I loved the innocent charm of Good Guys, but the rest was forgettable.

... I never read his Broadway Comics output.

Now, as for his return to the Legion, I'd be more excited if he were taking over the "Lightning Saga" Legion instead of the threeboot. I would also be more excited if he weren't talking about a year-long story arc (my, how original). On the other hand, Shooter is the only writer who can make me care enough to pick up another issue of the threeboot. At his best, his work is surprising, controversial, thought-provoking, and exciting. At his most average, his stories are more original than those of most other comics writers.

Here's hoping it's time for him to be brilliant again.

Jeepers! I just have to say it again...

<span style="font-size: 50px;">YAY! JIM SHOOTER IS WRITING THE LEGION AGAIN!</span>

I share your excitement, Eryk, though it's tempered with the knowledge that few "reunions" ever produce worthwhile results (Jefferson Airplane or "The New WKRP In Cincinnati" come to mind). Also, it's not strictly a reunion since this Legion isn't exactly the same one Shooter wrote the last time, so he might as well be coming onto a completely different project.

Still, it is worth looking forward to.

Oh, don't get me wrong. If it were up to me, Shooter would pick things up with "his" Legion as they were in 1976 (or, even better, 1970) and ignore everything since. But, hey, pretty much every Legion writer since Shooter has spent the bulk of their runs either rehashing or at least remixing ideas that Shooter came up with in his teens. So even if Shooter doesn't have a single new idea/story in him, I'd just as soon read his rehashes of his ideas than those of any of his younger imitators.

And, honestly, I'm glad he's not working on something that's as tied into the current mess of DC continuity and the whole "Crisis on Every Other Tuesday" mentality as the Johns/Meltzer Legion is. I think he's right that part of the appeal of the Legion is its relative isolation from the rest of the DCU. So, since DC seems determined not to give us back a genuine "Earth-1" Legion in its pristine 60s/70s form, I'm happy to see what he can do with the threeboot team.

He Who, I share your trepidation for reunions, so that is why I am actually glad that he is picking up the Waid Legion--it's NOT a reunion. A true reunion would require us to somehow deal with all the history that was there. The WaK Legion is still largely a blank slate (partly due to the writing/editorial direction, partly due to it's recent vintage) but the characters, where they are well-defined at all, really are faithful representations of the Silver Age originals. Even the differences in some details prove the larger point -- for example, pairing aristocratic Projectra with loner/man-of-the-people Timber Wolf is entirely consistent with the spirit of the original pairing of Shooter Projectra with Shooter Karate Kid. Sun Boy is more heroic and leaderly again and has his narcissism under control, as he was in the original Adventure stories. Star Boy is still a lovable lunkhead/goofball with flashes of brilliance. Shadow Lass is still an alien woman-warrior with sensual overtones. Cham is the alien who fits in bettter than any of his teammates want to acknowledge. I could go on. Yes, there are a lot of differences, too, not all of them bad. I feel that these are good templates waiting for some life to be breathed into them (not to mention have some real kick-ass bad guys butt heads with them). Being a Legion fan is all triumph of hope over experience, but maybe we'll get a tasty little side order of experience to go with the heaping plate of hope this time.

If he sucks...how much worse can it be than most of the last 20 years? I haven't enjoyed the Legion in a very long time...there's no place for it to go but up for me IMO. Even if it stays bad, I'm used to it, and at least we're in somewhat of a Golden Age artwise....

Greg, as usual, you expressed my feelings better than I could. Sure, I loved Shooter's Legion. But I'm burned out by once greats trying for a comeback. But I will admit the interview made me feel better about his return. No reboot is good, no matter how I feel about the WaK version. I know Shooter should be able to take what is there and turn it into what he feels will work without the reboot.

Plus all his enthusiasm (assumed as print is hard to tell) for the 50th anniversary and his plans makes me a little excited since no one else besides Giffen or Levitz (no, not even the Bierbaums) would celebrate the even the way it deserves.

I don't fear the reunion aspect at all cause Jim has always been a progressive writer. While many fanboy writers try to pay ode to what he did...he doesn't.

I have a feeling some old school fans may not like what he does personally.

Seriously...if Shooter were just another writer of limited ability, I'd be dreading this. If he'd been hacking for 15 years, I'd be dreading this. But he hasn't been...and he's not a typical writer, and he never has been. He's been a prodigy, he's been pariah, he's been offensive, he's been progressive, but one thing he has never been is boring and lacking in creativity.

I didn't think there was any way I'd be as excited if he wasn't writing the Legion in the LS...but you know what? I was wrong...I am just as excited because telling stories is an artform and Shooter knows how to tell memorable ones. Even his bad ones are memorable. :lol

Dang I can't wait for this stuff to get going and to see what Jim and Francis can do.


Just think of it...Jim Shooter is going to be writing the Legion again. Who'd have ever thought we'd see that again?


I am glad that no matter what they are doing, they aren't rebooting the whole shebang again. That's what I'm really tired of. I think that's what all Legion Fans, young and old, are tired of.

The Shooter/Swan years was the first time the Legion seemed "real" to me. The current characters don't feel "real" to me at all. I dearly hope that Shooter/fjm can fix that. Make me feel mighty real!

Personally, I want Shooter/fjm to go even farther outside the box and make the 3boot Legionnaires as unique as possible, short of being unrecognizable. A legion without a superboyman *should* be a different beast. I fail to see the point of a 3boot LSH and Lightning Saga LSH (not to mention 'toon LSH) having very similar personalities, ideals, political and social goals, romantic relationships, Karate Kids with collars, and so forth -- unless I'm completely missing the point of a Multiverse. They won't truly become "real" (imo) until they stand apart and on their own.

So, Vive la Difference and long live black Star Boy, green Polar Boy, mute Saturn Girl, non-gendered blob Chameleon, triple-bodied Trip, disembodied Dream Girl and Machiavellian Brainiac 5.

I can absolutely deal with these "differences", it's more the way the current characters act, treat each other and their motivations that doesn't feel "real".

I think the main thing that can be done to make these characters real is to thin the herd. Get rid of all extraneous superhero groups and little legionnaires and concentrate on the original legion characters. Other than Cosmic Boy and B-5 who have had the most exposure so far. This will give the reader a chance to connect. Who can identify with the hordes of characters that have been thrown at us thus far? As in the current issues, focusing on individual legionnaires, is the way to go. Let us know who we're dealing with on a personal level before the next planet-wide threat descends. Once we understand why the individual characters act/react the way they do, we can enjoy both the small scale and the large scale threats to this superhero group.

It's hard being as disappointed in the Threeboot as I am because it makes it feel like everything I write on Legion World these days is negative.

So I'm afraid not even having Jim Shooter on this book again is enough to get me excited.

Call me when we this team gets de-booted, re-booted, anything-booted away from the current dreck and then I'll be excited.

I actually read Legends (twice), and I liked it - think it's the best DC stuff Byrne did. But I never knew the insider stuff you're writing about here - thank you, that's really very interesting, I'll immediately look it up!

As for creators with big Egos: I'll take Shooter AND Byrne over any mediocre writer who no matter whom he's working with (and on what), he keeps on saying "Oh I LOVE working with this artist, he is SUCH A NICE GUY, I CARE so much for these characters, I have ALWAYS have such big respect for them" yadda yadda yadda.

People who honestly say their opinions are hard to find, and I don't care if people think they're rude as long as they are doing good stories. Shooters more than enthusiastic reply about Manapul already makes me a bit sceptical about how honest that interview was...

So that said, I hope that Shooter has not "Byrned out" like Byrne. I love his old Legion stuff, especially all the fresh ideas he came up with back then. But I have not read a lot of his other stuff (have the Korvac saga TPB via Ebay but didn't read it yet), so I am not so sure about his current genius. But that's not a bad sign: I was pretty sure about Waid being a good man to write the Legion and look how I was wrong...

I really would be interested in getting some of Shooters Valiant stuff though, as so many people here seem to have very fond memories of it. Which books do I buy? Are there any TPBs?

I have to add that I'm actually hoping that the Waid Legion now will finally get the sense of ingrown history that always made the Legion strong. Most of the current characters are still blank carbon copies of each other. So as long as Shooter does not mention the Terror Firma debacle and silently throws the galaxy-wide Legion youth movement into the garbage bin, he does not have to reboot the Waid legion to actually start from scratch - he just has to add an origin, some history and a lot of character biographies.

If he would take some of the old biographies and just put them into his first issue, the book would probably please many oldtimers and newcomers alike. Could it be so easy?

No wonder he's not in that new teaser image . Now I'm just hoping that he's not ignored for the anniversary story.

Here's some more from the newly annouced writer himself:

Wizard Universe interview with Jim Shooter

I'll single out the one thing I liked the best: Night Girl will definitely appear! Yay!