Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Long Live the Legion! Let's Talk About LSH #2...(potential spoilers ahead)

Oooooh I like this idea. And i can really see where you pick that up from PDG.

A Vril Dox would have confirmed his theory with the Naltorian kid then taken his ring back. His actually says please, with no prompting, when he askes for tasmias ring. Albeit he tries to hide it with an icy tone. Plus the self doubt at the end, when for a moment he is not sure if Nura is teasing him.

I don't think the Legion is going to be directly punk nor do I think they're that whitebread really right now. However, it an organization made up of a very large variety. Their "rebellion form" is wearing clothes 1000 years out of date and seemingly very sexually suggestive clothes in a society that seems extremely repressed.

Well, the girls are. The males should be trying harder.

I really like PDG's suggestion that Brainy's actively imitating Vril too! It puts the issue in an entirely different light, but a very cool one.

I also agree that his body suit is sure... something. There were several shadowy shots that made me blink and double-take. If the green on his costume were just a liiiitle bit darker, maybe...

Even if Brainy is older than the others (have we had confirmation of that somewhere? I don't recall) he's not so much older that the idea of him marrying a Legionnaire is outlandish. I'm happy about that. I don't like the idea of Brainy being so much older that he couldn't get into any of his traditionally disasterous romantic entanglements.

Although now that I've thought about it... Brainy and Nura? I can see that. It could work. Maybe better than Brainy and Laurel. Either that, or they'd drive each other completely mad, which would also be fun!

There were also people other than Brainy in this issue, I guess, or something. They were okay.

I liked Cos in a more relaxed mood. I liked Dream Girl's skill, but disliked the slightly ditzy attitude--I think even the same attitude with less modern slang will make me like her more. It's interesting to see an attitude-filled Karate Kid instead of a Zen Master Karate Kid again. LOVED Shadow Lass. Good issue! I do hope to see some more depth into the characters, but I realize that'll take time.

Edit add: I don't find the costumes at all that sexually shocking. They're fairly tame for super-heroines, and to me, they seem less sexual and revealing than even the DnA ladies' costumes.

I think people are automatically assuming this future would follow a trend of liberation and relaxed "moral standards." When it seems quite the opposite.

In a society where human beings don't even touch each other without gloves, its entirely possible that this time could give the 50s willies for repression or the Victorian age.

It's going to be fun if Brainy keeps trying to act all Vril-like and the "real" Brainy keeps breaking through. He could remain my favourite character after all.

Great second issue. I love all the characterisation and witty dialogue. In my opinion, WaK is second only to the Levitz-Giffen team and, with time, may even surpass them...though it will really need some doing to topple the Great Darkness Saga.

Does anyone else find it amusing to see Brainy in exactly the same spot as the Science Police in LOSH#1? 'I'm projecting likely scenarious, be patient'....'As you were, Brainy. It is under control'

I love the characterisation of KK and his cheeky look when he says, 'Race you' I also agree with you guys that KK should have taken out the Precommando. Part of being a martial artist is to react to the movement of the opponent. That requires on the spot adjustment which no matter how predicted cannot be truly countered. It is quite obvious that the Precommando cannot truly predict what will happpen or they would not have fallen for Dream Girl's trap, or at least would have predicted that they will fall in which case, why bother even to start the fight?

I believe though that Dream Girl is doing more than using her beauty (great as it is ) to distract. I think we are seeing her engaging the Precommandos on a mental level where they try to out-predict each other. Another possibility is that she possesses another power...to draw people in with her beauty.

I don't find Brainy cold at all. His saying 'please' albeit reluctantly points to a very human trait. Plus, I like the look he gave Dream Girl before he tried to console her. As to how he knows Dream Girl will move out of her chair, I would think this is what a precog would do almost intuitively...move out of harm's way or do things which are seem strange but prove to be right. If Brainy has been observing her, he would have seen this coming so it is not that he knows Colossal (I know, I know, Micro Lad) Boy will fall onto the chair, but that if you observe Dream Girl long enough you can see her acting predictably.

Perhaps, but we have as yet no real idea of what those "moral standards" are. Their society might frown on clones dating non-clones, or wearing fushia pokadots on Friday morning. Or eye contact might be considered incredibly rude, which might either explain why the subordinate SP officer was talking to his boss on the vidscreen or be a believable side effect of a world in the habit of doing stuff like that.


Shouldn't he be, really? I mean, if he looks twenty-five, shouldn't he really be, like, at least forty? And Cos called him a prodigy, which implies he's still considered pretty young (for a Coluan, anyway).

True, but Coluns live 600 years on average, which is why it's only been five generations since Vril Dox the Second took over for his android daddykins.

At note we only know that the society is

* Sterile
* Boring
* Safe (at least for non-politicians)
* Contemptous of children heroes (seemingly normal until you take note that the Teen Titans never take this sort of flak)
* Contemptous of the past of Superman and other heroes (rather stupid to disregard the men who more or less built your society with their heroism and scientific discoveries)
* Wear gloves all the time
* Seem to wear indistinct heavy robes and bodysuits that imply a fairly uniform sense of fashion
* Communicate with vid screens whenever possible instead of personal contact
* Adults for some reason, are not in the front lines of the war but youth are.
* Politics coat personal relationships (A man actually broke off a make out session because he discovered the girl was a legionaire in the preview)

We know more about this society than we think. My guess is that the Legion of Superheroes has definite subtext of being personally very radical in "human contact" which I would assume is probably sexual, even if their morals are probably not that different from our time.

Just a thought. I wish honestly we had more feedback on this. It's a testament though that I never wondered this about the 2nd boot.

Actually, you just gave me a thought. Adults seem to have exponentially more rights than the children, don't they? Maybe in this UP, people aren't considered, you know, *people* until a certain point? I'm not saying that parents don't *care* about their kids, but that they pretty much *belong* to their parents and their govenment.

So a revolution of "underagers" would be threatening from more than a political standpoint. It might seem... distasteful, much as the empowerment of the lower classes often *does*.

And then you get Nura touching things without gloves, and Brainy in his skin-suit. No wonder the Legion makes people nervous.

Whoa Super Nelly...of Space, this was good. I mean, I expected it to be good, but this was phenomenal. This month saw a new Planetary, the final issue of JLA Classified, the final issue of We3...and guess what I’ve read and reread the most?

Normally I hang out here mostly because the people are interesting, not because I live and breathe LSH. This is really changing that, though. Right now there’s no book I anticipate more each month.

I love the personalities. Dream Girl’s whip-smart and almost too competent…so she gets a time-drifting consciousness for a touch of vulnerability. She turns on the sex appeal precisely when she wants, but doesn’t flirt compulsively like the preboot Nura.

Karate Kid’s a good mix of preboot and postboot too. He’s comfortable with“Eastern” spiritualism and psychology, but his primary motivation is hitting things really really hard. That’s pretty close to the mindset of most of the dedicated martial artists I’ve encountered. And it’s nice to see him not hold a grudge when Nura overshadows him twice in one issue.

I’m glad to see KK looking Asian…sometimes. He seems to be the least consistent Legionnaire in appearance; I think it’s mostly that his eyes and jawline are drawn/shaded differently from panel to panel. So sometimes he looks Asian, sometimes he looks like a white guy with a squint. I’m sure his face’ll be resolved more in later issues, though.

We’ve seen Shadow Lass question Cos about the Legion’s “subservience” to the UP, and in this issue she’s the one to jump on Brainy about “supplanting” it. Looks like she’s opposed to the Legion becoming an establishment organization under any circumstances.

Speaking of Cosmic Boy, he seems quite different from the reboot version. He’s trying to be the reboot version, self-controlled and officious and hypercritical, but he’s really not comfortable with it. And every once in a while he gets pushed too far and has to cut loose—trashing the cameras in #1, pranking Brainy’s lab in this issue. He’s a teenager working very hard to be adult, rather than the effortless adult-in-a-teenager’s-body of earlier Legions.

Forgive the Calling-the-Roll-esque format of the above, but I couldn't figure out how to properly divide this into two posts.

Random responses to things:

I’m not sure their power works that way. I think they see their opponents’ attempted moves, precisely as they will occur, and possibly their own countermoves as well. They’re simply acting out their own visions, fulfilling their predictions rather than contradicting them.

Well, under some circumstances. KK doubtless hits harder and faster--I didn't see Nura pulverizing any walls--so he may do better against superpowered opposition. And the Precommandos’ defeat suggested that Naltorians have trouble previewing the actions of multiple opponents at once. So Karate Kid may also do better in a mass melee situation. But yeah, in the standard martial-artsy duel between two non-physically-superhuman opponents, Dream Girl would probably take it.

In general, it looks like Waid’s following up on his promise to make the female Legionnaires serious fighters—but by enhancing their combat skills rather than their superpowers. Which is a great thing to do in itself…but when Phantom Girl and Shadow Lass are dealing out helmet-crunching strikes, and Dream Girl’s ripping apart electronics by hand, it does make it a bit harder for Karate Kid to shine.

It’s certainly possible that both KK and Shady were playing along during that fight. They went from“unconscious” to stealthily rising and sucker-punching their foes awfully quickly. Given how often it comes up, I wouldn’t be surprised if the LSH had training videos for “pretending to lose a fight so the bad guys let down their guard.”

Still, it’d be nice to see Karate Kid do a bit of training or meditation, go back to Naltor and really lay the smack down.

Seconded. Humans aren’t bright white or pink or yellow; no more (in my aesthetic opinion) should Talokians be bright blue. Shady’s current color looks much more…organic, I guess. Even if she wasn’t joyfully punching fellow Legionnaires in the head—for a good cause, of course--I’d be head-over-heels for her on costume and looks alone.

That cutaway strip in the front of her pants is a trifle disconcerting, though…an inch lower and the book would need a mature readers label! And she’s got to have flight-ring assistance to do kicks in those heels….

I love all the coloring I’ve seen so far, really. Muted colors allow for subtlety in the penciling, as you say, and contrast with the glowing icons and energy blasts. As for Nura’s hair, I don’t care one way or the other about its color—but hey, if she’s gonna marry Brainy, she’d better be a blonde…

Maybe they worry a platinum Dream Girl would be too confusable with Projectra?

Bang on, I think. He likes the idea of changing the face of the galaxy, and he thinks coldness and deviousness are a necessary part of that, but he just can’t pull it off. He can’t help speaking his mind; he can’t help taking off to save the Naltorian kids; and he can’t help feeling compassion for Dream Girl when she’s fretting about Naltor’s future. Look at the last shot of Nura’s face; she knows he’s trying to comfort her without admitting it. She’s got him figured out.

Is it going to work out for him? I like to think it’ll work out better than it did for Vril, whose social dysfunction almost destroyed L.E.G.I.O.N. more than once. This Brainiac 5 has the potential to combine all the best qualities of Vril and early postboot Brainy…grand ambitions and the IQ and determination to realize them, but enough honesty and approachability that his friends can call him on it if he takes a wrong step. I’m looking forward to watching him grow.

That's not necessarily extreme from our societal viewpoint. Imagine cuddling up with someone and taking their jacket off to see, I dunno, a White Power shirt. Or a shirt which says "George W Bush is God's Anointed Son" if you're a devout Jewish liberal. Things like that can really dampen your ardor.

Which is not to say it might not be worse in c31. We don't even know if most UP planets have multiple dominant political parties. The very concept of friendly political disagreement could be foreign to these people. I just don't think the makeout scene is solid proof of this.

True,

The question is though, what is it that makes the Legion of Superheroes so damn offensive to even a person of the same age as their group. It can't just be "adults vs. kids" largely. It's something distinctly radical.

The question is...what.

Very interesting observation, and not one I'd previously considered. I like it.

Makes me really want to see the White Witch, Kinetix, and/or Mordru show up. If this is Brainy's view, I'm guessing the Sorcerer's World, if it still exists, is currently cloaked. OTOH, Jeckie is also from a society with high magic use, so it's hard to tell.

They look awesome from the outside but they don't seem space-conscious. Then again, it could be that it's psychologically more pleasing, which might come in handy for a race who needs to concentrate to use their powers effectively.

Well, we know part of it is simple misinformation. The guy in the makeout session said he heard the Legion brainwashes people. Assuming that's not true (hey, maybe Esper Lass is doing naughty things down on that plaza, you never know), who made it up? Establishment propagandists, maybe. Or baffled adults coming up with mind-control as the only way the Legion could become so popular so fast. Or other kids spreading rumors. Bilis definitely didn't get his Legion info straight from the source, and I bet many other kids are relying on third-hand info too.

Wow! All this speculation and discussion is great!

I was thinking about Charles' comment that he wished there were more feedback on the speculation - I hope you don't mind me being fairly silent for the most part - it's not that I don't want to talk about the issues - rather that I don't want to spoil the fun for those you already beginning to piece together the bigger picture

Just a little clarification on the 'kids fight the wars' idea - we're speculating that by the 31st century lifespans will be somewhat longer than today and that people are considered 'kids' well into their twenties. Of course that only works for Earth lifespans....doh...this sci-fi stuff is tough!

Thanks again for all the comments - and can I just add how great it is to hear so many Legion readers animated and enthusiastic about the book!

Thanks for the clarification Barry and I hope it shows up later, it certainly does explain a great deal. I think way too many fans were thinking that this was largely out of their demographic....the 14 year old thing of the original Legion was a tad unrealistic I thought.

I'm looking forward to next year by the way because I want to see what connections exist between the Threeboot and the prior universe.

(I hope Hypertime is invoked honestly and the Legionaires remember doing stuff with the current verse even if it wasn't there)

We had some pretty animated discussions during Legion Lost/Legion Worlds and the entire DnA era too but never were they this positive.
We always pick apart the nuances but there hasn't been this much excitement about the book since Zero Hour. I'm pretty happy with this new version and it thrills me to see fandom in general sitting up to take notice.

It's great to walk into a comic shop and buy the Legion and not have to make an excuse for liking it.

We need a letters page!

We are working on the letters page question....

That's considerate of you, actually. If I was in your position, I'd probably be fighting myself not to jump in and correct us when we're Getting It All Wrong.

But if you're willing to comment on the art choices, a sentence or two on the colours of Brainy's costume would be appreciated. I mean, you *could* leave it to the reader's interpretations, but I warn you that all mine are making me giggle...


Do we know that as of yet? She could still be a quasi-telepathic snake. (Honestly 'though, I liked the snake - with reservations I shan't go into at the moment.)

That's an interesting point. In times of complacency, politics tend to slide towards the middle. In the legion's present, after generations of "peace time", the idea of what the government should be is probably etched pretty deeply in public conciousness.

I mean, those of us who live in a democracy right now take it pretty much for granted, and we'd perhaps react strongly to a group that amassed a great deal of firepower - as well as the brainpower capable of making new, unanticipated forms of weapons/etc - dressed in suits of armour; got into the habit of interupting police sting operations and hostage situations; and then announced to the world that they stood for life, liberty, and the reinstatement of the Monarchy of their choosing.

(Not that I'm saying the legion wants a monarchy in particular, but I'm sure whatever they want is viewed at least by many as a giant leap backwards.)


And as aside, because it's not really about what's *inside* the book, it's unfortunate that the sales rank this month isn't going to tell us very much about the level of interest in the book. I've noticed a *huge* bump in interest compared to last month - as word of mouth got around, and people who weren't *waiting* for #1 tracked it down over the past month and were then *waiting* for #2 - but I'm not sure that what I've noticed maps very well to wider reality, as I've noticed it from a very particular subset of comic book fans.

What would be a better indicator? Re-orders? The half-life LoSH #2 in the racks?

At the risk of sounding like a total homer, I think LSH #2 was probably the single best Legion story I have read since the 1980s.

I emphasize "single best" because some larger, multi-issue stories in the last 15 years have had good and great aspects to them.

But, in terms of telling a really interesting, thought-provoking, character-driven drama that fully exploits the Legion concept and setting in a single issue, LSH #2 is hard to beat. At least until #3, I hope.

DC, I completely agree with you. This tale was something not maybe people pointed out- it's one of the greatest all inclusive Legion Issues I've read in… well… forever.

Yea, I'm in that boat Drake.. I couldn't care less about something like that. Waid has done a brilliant job at defining his characters that what they look like has little effect on me.

Dreamy's precog powers are more Reminiscent of her battles in the 80's. Has anyone else noticed that shed make a pretty good leader (again)? I did like her with Star Boy... but this Briany Dreamy thing could prove to be a great side story.

Umm as far as ‘stealing the scientific spotlight’- aside from Dreamy, Lyle and Sun Boy did steal it often… and so did that genus that created star gates… RJ! Brainiac is a genius, but he is among peers- the best and the brightest. I’d like to see interaction between Lyle and Brainy this time around… after all, Lyle is ‘one of Briany’s recruits’.

It WAS mentioned, but allow me to re-hash Dreamy's science knowledge. To quote J & T's silver age Legion Page...

"Nura possesses knowledge of Naltorian "super-science", which enabled her to alter Lightning Lass's power into one of causing weightlessness, and thus renaming her Light Lass (AD 317)."

I would be a Brainiac if I hung out with someone like... umm Kamandi or something. But it seems WaK wont be developing this side of the character in order to create a clean cut science vs. magic battle between Brainy and Dreamy... which is perfectly fine with me.

As far as KK losing that fight, I'm glad he did. It allowed Nura to get that amazing one page monologue... (which are up here by the way)..

Speculations? Well- page one truly reveals that there is no need for a star gate inventing Durlan with a pot belly. Infact, they’d probably tell him to ‘Eat it grandpa’. However RJ is the one guy I miss the most.

*drops to the floor and kisses Barry's feet*

*then looks extremely embarassed...*

I *really* miss the letters pages.

I thought it was just Braal that had adulthood at the age of 14. I think it translated that Braalian 14+ers were still adults on Earth but that Earth natives still had to be 18. Of course, they all earned enough pay to support their families (like Tenzil did), so maybe I'm wrong.

Forgot to comment in my last post. I think the reboot Legion is still out there floating and so the threeboot Legion _can't_ remember it. Besides, making this team remember the other incarnation won't help new readers or, IMO, contribute to the story in any meaningful way. Only Shikari should remember.

Ferroboy I don't see how that remotely relates in hypertime.

In my opinion the Reboot Legion SHOULD remember things like working with Superboy, Supergirl, and plenty of other references to incidents in the past.

After all, in their timeline, they probably have no doubt dealt with the past of the DCU all the time....it's just a hypertime past of the DCU.

Honestly, I hope we never really address the Shikari issue save maybe an issue where a mad girl is trying to find 'her' Legionaires and they lead her off to some light where they are seen drifting off.

I mean, we don't want to acknowledge that all that continuity was "lost" is what I'm saying but pretend there was never an interruption in continuity period largely.

It doesn't need to be much but maybe a

"Remember when we used to play with that time machine?"
"And Brainy had that crush on a girl dead for a 1000 years?"
"Yeah. I still didn't buy his robot excuse."

every once in awhile.